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Forums > Social Discussion > Glowstringing, Fact or Fiction?
Login/Join to ParticipatePosted:Just curious, how do you guys view glowstringing?
couple questions to focus/start off the discussion:
Is glowstringing and poi one and the same or different? If it's different then how do you define glowstringing and seperate the two?
Do glowstringers have a unique set of moves outside of traditional poi moves?
Should the difference in each tool/medium (glowstring vs sock poi vs fire poi) be emphasized? Or should all of them be spun the same way?
How do you define/develop style and originality in poi? Should the same principles of style and originality be applied to glowstringing? Or can glowstringing have their own principles and methodologies?
Are there differences in cultural background and philosophy between poi and glowstringing?
couple questions to focus/start off the discussion:
Is glowstringing and poi one and the same or different? If it's different then how do you define glowstringing and seperate the two?
Do glowstringers have a unique set of moves outside of traditional poi moves?
Should the difference in each tool/medium (glowstring vs sock poi vs fire poi) be emphasized? Or should all of them be spun the same way?
How do you define/develop style and originality in poi? Should the same principles of style and originality be applied to glowstringing? Or can glowstringing have their own principles and methodologies?
Are there differences in cultural background and philosophy between poi and glowstringing?
Delete Topic
Posted:Thought I should visit my neighbours site in return for their visits here, and check out sum of this ultra modern glowsticking style you guys been on about. Reception was a bit could though, and now Im waiting for a glowstix video to download from HOP, as none were obviously available at GS.C.
Im a bit mystified by the GS.C. mandate posted here as a link. I really dont see how glowsticking implies dance and more than poi or fire chains does, especially as Maori poi is synonymous with dance. Nor do I see how being associated with the American candy rave scene is a guarantee of a good dancer
Yet apparently yoyoing is dancing? I thought ravergirl had some good basic dance tips.
Finally get to see famous new glowstick style. Dunno what all the fuss is about. Some great moves, with style, showing lots of practice. But is it dancing? Look more like tricking to me, yoyo style. Which would put it in the juggling category. Apologies if Ive been hasty, but no other downloads were available. Will check later.
cheers
Oh, you guys might think glowstringing explicitly means it's dancing, but hey don't tell that to a dancer Wanting is one thing doing is another. We debate this one all the time here, and there are some good dance thereads at HOP.
And there are at leat 40 countries in Africa.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1112944873)
Im a bit mystified by the GS.C. mandate posted here as a link. I really dont see how glowsticking implies dance and more than poi or fire chains does, especially as Maori poi is synonymous with dance. Nor do I see how being associated with the American candy rave scene is a guarantee of a good dancer
Yet apparently yoyoing is dancing? I thought ravergirl had some good basic dance tips.Finally get to see famous new glowstick style. Dunno what all the fuss is about. Some great moves, with style, showing lots of practice. But is it dancing? Look more like tricking to me, yoyo style. Which would put it in the juggling category. Apologies if Ive been hasty, but no other downloads were available. Will check later.
cheers
Oh, you guys might think glowstringing explicitly means it's dancing, but hey don't tell that to a dancer
Wanting is one thing doing is another. We debate this one all the time here, and there are some good dance thereads at HOP. And there are at leat 40 countries in Africa.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1112944873)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Deletecoleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
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Posted:erm, i need to read all the new posts here but i thought with respect to cynic dave and wes' assertions that the change in encompassing culture necessitates boundaries in style and to go as far even as a change in the name of the art, read this.
that discussion includes opinions from maori, kiwi, australian, british and american swingers and if wes is serious about why he started this thread, it should address a lot of the points that he was looking for opinions on.
dom's post adresses the 'origin' questions that stone posed a few pages back.
it helped me form the opinion that i have today on the state of the art.
which (as predicted) is almost identical to nyc's view
===========================
first edit: to be completely taken aback by adrillf's answer to my question.
i asked for a clear definition of what i was doing when i span glowsticks 3 years ago at a club, and he says that i was not using glowsticks as poi but rather 'glowsticking without knowing it'.
which means the whole matter of definition comes down to 'if you do anything at all with glowsticks, you are glowsticking: if you swing poi moves, its glowsticking, if you do liquid, its glowsticking, if you go take a piss and hold them in your other hand to help you aim, its glowsticking'.
i'm astonished.
===========================
second edit: to cynic dave - it seems you don't see the importance of the broadness of each of the categorisations that jo puts forward.
you use the example of music and its varioius genres.
check this - jo's categories for music instead of spinning arts:
a) a catagory like 'music'
b) a catagory like 'guitar music'
c) a catagory like 'blues guitar'
d) a catagory like 'bluegrass blues'
you assert that gs should be in category a: that says "comparing glowsticking to poi is equivalent to comparing rock music to classical music".
sticking it in category c says "comparing glowsticking to poi is like comparing blues guitar to jazz guitar".
putting it in category d says "comparing glowsticking to poi is like comparing delta blues to piedmont blues".
the glowsticking community's apparent desire to sub-define the art and then raise a particular sub-definition up to the previous level is what grates with me and many others.
it would be like hokum blues artists claiming that they are not blues and deserved to be considered apart from all other blues styles because their style uses humour and double-entendres which until it came about, had not been used in blues before.
why should a difference in the tool used demand a large differentiation?
you don't see a violinist assert that violin concertos are apart from classical music but then claim that unlike them, piano concertos still belong in the wider classical category - though they are undeniably different genres, they are still both classical music, and at a higher level, music in general.
an on-topic question for cynic dave and adrillf here: most often, i swing led-lit juggling balls tied to shoelaces and i do it while listening to dance music in clubs - what is that called exactly?
some interesting cross-reading regarding genres: http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=4310
br>
Written by: Cynicdave1
Oh, another thing that came into my mind.
Glowsticking is a dance. Dancing with glowsticks
Glowstringing is glowsticking. Dancing with glowsticks with strings attached.
That's what I believe.
And a real question: Do you guys consider poi instrisically about dance? Or is it more along the veins of juggling?
i asked that question back on the first page
i agree with what owd says below.
===========================
cole. x
EDITED_BY: coleman (1112957521)
that discussion includes opinions from maori, kiwi, australian, british and american swingers and if wes is serious about why he started this thread, it should address a lot of the points that he was looking for opinions on.
dom's post adresses the 'origin' questions that stone posed a few pages back.
it helped me form the opinion that i have today on the state of the art.
which (as predicted) is almost identical to nyc's view
===========================
first edit: to be completely taken aback by adrillf's answer to my question.
i asked for a clear definition of what i was doing when i span glowsticks 3 years ago at a club, and he says that i was not using glowsticks as poi but rather 'glowsticking without knowing it'.
which means the whole matter of definition comes down to 'if you do anything at all with glowsticks, you are glowsticking: if you swing poi moves, its glowsticking, if you do liquid, its glowsticking, if you go take a piss and hold them in your other hand to help you aim, its glowsticking'.
i'm astonished.
===========================
second edit: to cynic dave - it seems you don't see the importance of the broadness of each of the categorisations that jo puts forward.
you use the example of music and its varioius genres.
check this - jo's categories for music instead of spinning arts:
a) a catagory like 'music'
b) a catagory like 'guitar music'
c) a catagory like 'blues guitar'
d) a catagory like 'bluegrass blues'
you assert that gs should be in category a: that says "comparing glowsticking to poi is equivalent to comparing rock music to classical music".
sticking it in category c says "comparing glowsticking to poi is like comparing blues guitar to jazz guitar".
putting it in category d says "comparing glowsticking to poi is like comparing delta blues to piedmont blues".
the glowsticking community's apparent desire to sub-define the art and then raise a particular sub-definition up to the previous level is what grates with me and many others.
it would be like hokum blues artists claiming that they are not blues and deserved to be considered apart from all other blues styles because their style uses humour and double-entendres which until it came about, had not been used in blues before.
why should a difference in the tool used demand a large differentiation?
you don't see a violinist assert that violin concertos are apart from classical music but then claim that unlike them, piano concertos still belong in the wider classical category - though they are undeniably different genres, they are still both classical music, and at a higher level, music in general.
an on-topic question for cynic dave and adrillf here: most often, i swing led-lit juggling balls tied to shoelaces and i do it while listening to dance music in clubs - what is that called exactly?
some interesting cross-reading regarding genres: http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=4310
br>
Written by: Cynicdave1
Oh, another thing that came into my mind.
Glowsticking is a dance. Dancing with glowsticks
Glowstringing is glowsticking. Dancing with glowsticks with strings attached.
That's what I believe.
And a real question: Do you guys consider poi instrisically about dance? Or is it more along the veins of juggling?
i asked that question back on the first page
i agree with what owd says below.
===========================
cole. x
EDITED_BY: coleman (1112957521)
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002
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GOLD Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Cynicdave1
Oh, another thing that came into my mind.
Glowsticking is a dance. Dancing with glowsticks
Glowstringing is glowsticking. Dancing with glowsticks with strings attached.
That's what I believe.
And a real question: Do you guys consider poi instrisically about dance? Or is it more along the veins of juggling?
We have a broad general split between 'technical' and 'dance'.
I suspect however that our use of the term 'dance' differs greatly to yours.
Again generalising, but 'technical' would tend to involve little body movement/footwork- it would be essentially 'poi juggling' in a static position with difficult moves.
'Dance' would usually involve move basic moves done with lots of large scale body movement, interesting footwork and individual style.
If the glowstringing videos I've seen are representative of 'dance', then I would recomend that we do some work on defining our terms, and understanding what HOP-ers mean by dance; cos I do think they are different, and any discussion commencing from misunderstood terms will be confused.
ie, glowstring 'dance' has many characteristics in common with the opposite of HOP 'dance' (largely static body position, in one place, no movement etc).
In the same way, HOP 'dance', break'dance' etc, are not the same as ballroom 'dance' (which requires a partner).
'Dance' is one of those terms that mean many, and often contradicting, things.
Oh, another thing that came into my mind.
Glowsticking is a dance. Dancing with glowsticks
Glowstringing is glowsticking. Dancing with glowsticks with strings attached.
That's what I believe.
And a real question: Do you guys consider poi instrisically about dance? Or is it more along the veins of juggling?
We have a broad general split between 'technical' and 'dance'.
I suspect however that our use of the term 'dance' differs greatly to yours.
Again generalising, but 'technical' would tend to involve little body movement/footwork- it would be essentially 'poi juggling' in a static position with difficult moves.
'Dance' would usually involve move basic moves done with lots of large scale body movement, interesting footwork and individual style.
If the glowstringing videos I've seen are representative of 'dance', then I would recomend that we do some work on defining our terms, and understanding what HOP-ers mean by dance; cos I do think they are different, and any discussion commencing from misunderstood terms will be confused.
ie, glowstring 'dance' has many characteristics in common with the opposite of HOP 'dance' (largely static body position, in one place, no movement etc).
In the same way, HOP 'dance', break'dance' etc, are not the same as ballroom 'dance' (which requires a partner).
'Dance' is one of those terms that mean many, and often contradicting, things.
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Posted:good link cole
an opinion before reading old thread.
Cynicdave1, Home of Poi represents a diverse and open minded community that ranges from middle eastern dancers, jugglers, uni cyclists, martial artists, poiers, clubbers, ravers, doofers etctetcetc. Ultimately, we love all this stuff including glowsticks.
To be candid, I dont think you guys will establish you own individualistic style, if thats the aim, by suggesting that poi is not dancing, and shunning your contempories.
Clearly you guys have a distinct style that I think could be better defined by saying something like: glowsticking is a contrmporay dance style that has its origins in traditional Maori poi. Poi as a cultural dance form based on the ancient traditions of the Maori people living in New Zealand.
Define poi hereoriginally poi were Taro a food. training for combat etc. scaring enemy? dance
Poi are popular with tourists visiting New Zeland and s this trend has grown into the recent receurgence in poi as a exercise, dance and hobby. Today there are many forms of poi that include socks poi, fire poi, tail poi,fluffy poi and glow poi.
Glowstringing, as its practticed today, probably originated with poiers who use poi at raves, where glowsticks were probably advantageous compared to non-glowing objects. Many glowstringers can probably trace their roots to poi and many will often practice more poi at times than "pure" glowstringing. However as a performance art pure glowsticking has grown into a distinct style based on glowsticks, which are an icon of the rave scene.
Does that make sense???
Now, actually what you guys really seem to be doing with your glowstix is similar to exhibition club swinging, sans wraps And I swear I can hear OWD screaming in the background not them clubs again. Anyhow, imo exhibition club swinging is about patterns (circles) and lives on the gymnastics side of things in Olympic rhythmic gymnastics.
cheers
an opinion before reading old thread.
Cynicdave1, Home of Poi represents a diverse and open minded community that ranges from middle eastern dancers, jugglers, uni cyclists, martial artists, poiers, clubbers, ravers, doofers etctetcetc. Ultimately, we love all this stuff including glowsticks.
To be candid, I dont think you guys will establish you own individualistic style, if thats the aim, by suggesting that poi is not dancing, and shunning your contempories.
Clearly you guys have a distinct style that I think could be better defined by saying something like: glowsticking is a contrmporay dance style that has its origins in traditional Maori poi. Poi as a cultural dance form based on the ancient traditions of the Maori people living in New Zealand.
Define poi hereoriginally poi were Taro a food. training for combat etc. scaring enemy? dance
Poi are popular with tourists visiting New Zeland and s this trend has grown into the recent receurgence in poi as a exercise, dance and hobby. Today there are many forms of poi that include socks poi, fire poi, tail poi,fluffy poi and glow poi.
Glowstringing, as its practticed today, probably originated with poiers who use poi at raves, where glowsticks were probably advantageous compared to non-glowing objects. Many glowstringers can probably trace their roots to poi and many will often practice more poi at times than "pure" glowstringing. However as a performance art pure glowsticking has grown into a distinct style based on glowsticks, which are an icon of the rave scene.
Does that make sense???
Now, actually what you guys really seem to be doing with your glowstix is similar to exhibition club swinging, sans wraps
And I swear I can hear OWD screaming in the background not them clubs again. Anyhow, imo exhibition club swinging is about patterns (circles) and lives on the gymnastics side of things in Olympic rhythmic gymnastics. cheers
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Deletecoleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
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Posted:it just occured to me with reference to the categorisation scheme that there are various levels of web site depending on what discussion is welcome:
uber-a) a category like 'object manipulation with body movement'
a) a catagory like 'spinning'
b) a catagory like 'poi'
c) a catagory like 'firepoi'
d) a catagory like '"London" poi'
spherculism acts within category a and above - it encompasses all spinning toys (all types of poi, staff/doubles, clubswinging, meteor, devilsticks etc.) plus those in the category above which would be 'general object manipulation' (and as such welcomes discussion on juggling, diabolo, contact juggling and so on).
home of poi acts slightly above a (with the 'other toys' forum) but mainly within categories a and b - it mainly deals with poi swinging but has a very large staff spinning contingent.
gsc acts in categories c and d (it covers swinging moves that have been garnered from poi spinning by another community/culture and specifically discusses those moves with a particular type of poi object) and slightly in the one above a too (since the other half of the site's remit is how to do liquid with glowsticks).
opinions?
cole. x
EDITED_BY: coleman (1112958410)
uber-a) a category like 'object manipulation with body movement'
a) a catagory like 'spinning'
b) a catagory like 'poi'
c) a catagory like 'firepoi'
d) a catagory like '"London" poi'
spherculism acts within category a and above - it encompasses all spinning toys (all types of poi, staff/doubles, clubswinging, meteor, devilsticks etc.) plus those in the category above which would be 'general object manipulation' (and as such welcomes discussion on juggling, diabolo, contact juggling and so on).
home of poi acts slightly above a (with the 'other toys' forum) but mainly within categories a and b - it mainly deals with poi swinging but has a very large staff spinning contingent.
gsc acts in categories c and d (it covers swinging moves that have been garnered from poi spinning by another community/culture and specifically discusses those moves with a particular type of poi object) and slightly in the one above a too (since the other half of the site's remit is how to do liquid with glowsticks).
opinions?
cole. x
EDITED_BY: coleman (1112958410)
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Posted:I agree. (Did you just restate what I was trying to say again?!)
And I think that CynicDave may be interpreting those definitions differently. By saying "gsc acts in categories c and d" we're saying that glowsticking is NOT fire poi or London but connects in area B by being in the objects on strings.
Yeah, I completely agree with you Cole.
Can we redefine the categories to perhaps compromise?
uber-a) a category like 'object manipulation with body movement' [firepoi, staff, contact juggling, juggling, glowsticking, plates.]
a) a catagory like 'spinning objects' [Staff, clubs, sock poi, glowsticks.]
b) a catagory like 'spinning objects on strings (or chains or socks)' [Firepoi, sock poi, glowsticks, the basic weight attached by a flexible lead.]
c) a catagory like 'firepoi' [Double wicked, single wicked, towel wicks, light it and it goes WOOSH. Maori, UK, Burningman.]
d) a catagory like '"London" poi' [Influenced by emphais on specific move sets, motions, and philosophies.]
That's how I see it. And I definitely see me and glowstickers as being in the same category of segment B but different category of segment C. I see me and the Maori in the same category of C but different category of D.
And I think that CynicDave may be interpreting those definitions differently. By saying "gsc acts in categories c and d" we're saying that glowsticking is NOT fire poi or London but connects in area B by being in the objects on strings.
Yeah, I completely agree with you Cole.
Can we redefine the categories to perhaps compromise?
uber-a) a category like 'object manipulation with body movement' [firepoi, staff, contact juggling, juggling, glowsticking, plates.]
a) a catagory like 'spinning objects' [Staff, clubs, sock poi, glowsticks.]
b) a catagory like 'spinning objects on strings (or chains or socks)' [Firepoi, sock poi, glowsticks, the basic weight attached by a flexible lead.]
c) a catagory like 'firepoi' [Double wicked, single wicked, towel wicks, light it and it goes WOOSH. Maori, UK, Burningman.]
d) a catagory like '"London" poi' [Influenced by emphais on specific move sets, motions, and philosophies.]
That's how I see it. And I definitely see me and glowstickers as being in the same category of segment B but different category of segment C. I see me and the Maori in the same category of C but different category of D.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
coleman
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Posted:Written by: NYC
I agree. (Did you just restate what I was trying to say again?!)
erm... kinda
i just cut out the wittyness and replaced it with clarity
see ya next week my man
cole. x
I agree. (Did you just restate what I was trying to say again?!)
erm... kinda
i just cut out the wittyness and replaced it with clarity
see ya next week my man
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Posted:Written by: Stone
Thought I should visit my neighbours site in return for their visits here, and check out sum of this ultra modern glowsticking style you guys been on about. Reception was a bit could though, and now Im waiting for a glowstix video to download from HOP, as none were obviously available at GS.C.
I'll try to say this without being offensive, but I doubt it'll happen, just remember, I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to point out that our videos are not in hiding like stone is trying to say.
Did you try looking in places like, the stringing fourm (I found 3 videos on the first page) the learning anex (I found 16 short videos on the first page), the media box (I found 6 stringing videos, and a few other genre videos on that first page), there is even a pinned thread in the newbie area titled, "Where to download videos" and last but not least, the media center. The media center you can only get 5 downloads a day, but still, they are still videos. As for not being avaliable...how could we make videos more availabe? The media center has a link at the top of any page in bold print that says, "MEDIA" and the rest are in plain site.
Hopefully that'll help you out with finding videos. We aren't trying to hide them, and the only reason we limit your downloads from the media center is because we do not enjoy people coming in, downloading a whole bunch of files and never saying anything. We enjoy hearing from those who drop in, even if it's just in the sandbox. Hopefully your stay will be a bit longer next time.
Thought I should visit my neighbours site in return for their visits here, and check out sum of this ultra modern glowsticking style you guys been on about. Reception was a bit could though, and now Im waiting for a glowstix video to download from HOP, as none were obviously available at GS.C.
I'll try to say this without being offensive, but I doubt it'll happen, just remember, I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to point out that our videos are not in hiding like stone is trying to say.
Did you try looking in places like, the stringing fourm (I found 3 videos on the first page) the learning anex (I found 16 short videos on the first page), the media box (I found 6 stringing videos, and a few other genre videos on that first page), there is even a pinned thread in the newbie area titled, "Where to download videos" and last but not least, the media center. The media center you can only get 5 downloads a day, but still, they are still videos. As for not being avaliable...how could we make videos more availabe? The media center has a link at the top of any page in bold print that says, "MEDIA" and the rest are in plain site.
Hopefully that'll help you out with finding videos. We aren't trying to hide them, and the only reason we limit your downloads from the media center is because we do not enjoy people coming in, downloading a whole bunch of files and never saying anything. We enjoy hearing from those who drop in, even if it's just in the sandbox. Hopefully your stay will be a bit longer next time.
missegyptology: I'm gonna be a terrorist when I grow up anyway
DeletePosted:yes, i think i would have to agree completely with your new definition set, NYC.
Stone,
Excellent idea on adding a historical reference that can make everyone happy. i have no problem with crediting poi as one of the big influences to glowstringing. no doubt about it. i suppose it's because it's not explained in greator details. in fact, i'll use some of your own text, if that's okay with you.
to onewheeldave,
thanks again for an astute analysis and explanation.
to stone again,
let me explain again, that i'm not saying poi isn't dancing. my argument is pure semantics. poi describes technical aspects that could be used in dancing. poi is the skillset, the body of moves. glowstringing implies body of moves AND dancing. so it's a more specific word. why is this? well glowstringing was practiced mostly to rave-like events, implying strongly always having been done to electronica. with poi, we don't know for sure right?
the focus on the two websites is vastly different. you guys attract jugglers, unicyclists, gymnists, etc. on glowsticking.com. we attract the same crowd as pop dancers, poppers, lockers, "liquid" dancing crowd, the people who "orbit", "conjurers". basically the same urban element that make up the funkstylists, and the type of dancers you see on an american pop music video like britney spears (but a lot less pop and more "underground".
we have articles defending that its a dance at all:
http://www.glowsticking.com/nu/index.php?itemid=14&catid=1
br>
why? well because our web site in our earier days was constantly besieged by snobbby poppers, lockers, and breakdancers of the urban dance crowd that web sites like shaddupanddance.com use.
because i was am a very knowledgable popper and locker, i emphasized as the site was growing up to learn about all styles and to use them. freehanding the glowsticking style is without strings, and makes use of urban techniques, such as popping and locking.
i think the whole atmosphere and crowd of HOP is different. more technical, less "urban electronica", more "drum circle", more "european".
to coleman:
you interpreted jo's definition set a little differently than I, as some have pointed out. glowstringing would not be in A definately.
"why should a difference in the tool used demand a large differentiation?
i don't think i would use the same music analogy as you. music instruments being played to their function can yield different KINDS of music, whereas in glowstringing utility items are being used to yield different kinds of ACTIVITY.
it's what you DO with the tool that set things apart. If you play basketball with a soccerball, you are playing basketball. If you are juggling chainsaws, you aren't ... chopping down trees, but juggling. If you are playing a violin at a punk concert, like Yellowcard the punk band in the US, you are playing punk music, not classical violin. But before we get too picky about what you are saying because I see what you are saying, and i do see your point...
Let me ask you a really interesting question:
What happens guys, when glowstringing gets to the point that the vast majority of the influences are not from poi but from other disciplines? the way onewheeldave gets the idea of the intent and atmosphere of glowstringing well in that alhough most people would point out the sameness, he's willing to point out the uniqueness. But anyway, lets see if it's more obvious how different it is once it becomes even more different.
Link-catches are more related to martial arts, nunchucku
String manipulations are more related to yo-yoing.
Tracing with glowsticks is more related to freehand.
Wrapping is more related to martial arts. rope-darts.
Glowstick placing and moving with the hands obviously from freehand. people use freehand techniques often to get the glowstick from place to place.
Here is a newer video some of the kids are working on.. this is a random practice video (we have a section where people can upload clips that are small in size and get critiques)
http://www.glowsticking.com/hop
(just made the folder, click on it and click on the video)
There are some poi elements, and a lot of unique elements not found in poi, but in other disciplines having nothing to do with poi.
What then?
Stone,
Excellent idea on adding a historical reference that can make everyone happy. i have no problem with crediting poi as one of the big influences to glowstringing. no doubt about it. i suppose it's because it's not explained in greator details. in fact, i'll use some of your own text, if that's okay with you.
to onewheeldave,
thanks again for an astute analysis and explanation.
to stone again,
let me explain again, that i'm not saying poi isn't dancing. my argument is pure semantics. poi describes technical aspects that could be used in dancing. poi is the skillset, the body of moves. glowstringing implies body of moves AND dancing. so it's a more specific word. why is this? well glowstringing was practiced mostly to rave-like events, implying strongly always having been done to electronica. with poi, we don't know for sure right?
the focus on the two websites is vastly different. you guys attract jugglers, unicyclists, gymnists, etc. on glowsticking.com. we attract the same crowd as pop dancers, poppers, lockers, "liquid" dancing crowd, the people who "orbit", "conjurers". basically the same urban element that make up the funkstylists, and the type of dancers you see on an american pop music video like britney spears (but a lot less pop and more "underground".
we have articles defending that its a dance at all:
http://www.glowsticking.com/nu/index.php?itemid=14&catid=1
br>
why? well because our web site in our earier days was constantly besieged by snobbby poppers, lockers, and breakdancers of the urban dance crowd that web sites like shaddupanddance.com use.
because i was am a very knowledgable popper and locker, i emphasized as the site was growing up to learn about all styles and to use them. freehanding the glowsticking style is without strings, and makes use of urban techniques, such as popping and locking.
i think the whole atmosphere and crowd of HOP is different. more technical, less "urban electronica", more "drum circle", more "european".
to coleman:
you interpreted jo's definition set a little differently than I, as some have pointed out. glowstringing would not be in A definately.
"why should a difference in the tool used demand a large differentiation?
i don't think i would use the same music analogy as you. music instruments being played to their function can yield different KINDS of music, whereas in glowstringing utility items are being used to yield different kinds of ACTIVITY.
it's what you DO with the tool that set things apart. If you play basketball with a soccerball, you are playing basketball. If you are juggling chainsaws, you aren't ... chopping down trees, but juggling. If you are playing a violin at a punk concert, like Yellowcard the punk band in the US, you are playing punk music, not classical violin. But before we get too picky about what you are saying because I see what you are saying, and i do see your point...
Let me ask you a really interesting question:
What happens guys, when glowstringing gets to the point that the vast majority of the influences are not from poi but from other disciplines? the way onewheeldave gets the idea of the intent and atmosphere of glowstringing well in that alhough most people would point out the sameness, he's willing to point out the uniqueness. But anyway, lets see if it's more obvious how different it is once it becomes even more different.
Link-catches are more related to martial arts, nunchucku
String manipulations are more related to yo-yoing.
Tracing with glowsticks is more related to freehand.
Wrapping is more related to martial arts. rope-darts.
Glowstick placing and moving with the hands obviously from freehand. people use freehand techniques often to get the glowstick from place to place.
Here is a newer video some of the kids are working on.. this is a random practice video (we have a section where people can upload clips that are small in size and get critiques)
http://www.glowsticking.com/hop
(just made the folder, click on it and click on the video)
There are some poi elements, and a lot of unique elements not found in poi, but in other disciplines having nothing to do with poi.
What then?
Delete
Posted:"an on-topic question for cynic dave and adrillf here: most often, i swing led-lit juggling balls tied to shoelaces and i do it while listening to dance music in clubs - what is that called exactly? "
since you word "swing", i would say you are swinging juggling balls, being that no verb form of swinging juggling balls. there is a verb form of dancing with stringed glowsticks-- glowstringing.
since you word "swing", i would say you are swinging juggling balls, being that no verb form of swinging juggling balls. there is a verb form of dancing with stringed glowsticks-- glowstringing.
Delete
Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003
![Rev]()
Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Total posts: 1269
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003
Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: Cynicdave1
there is a verb form of dancing with stringed glowsticks-- glowstringing.
this is exactly my point... thus anything that the medium is used for (including moves seen as traditional poi) are considered glowstringing..
however this is not what you encourage, nor condone on your site whihc is why people feel the need to curb what they say or not say at all, lest they get chastized by the admin..
and dave, when I say that rope dart and what not are poi.. I never said 'modern' poi.. I said the generic use of the term poi.. as in something that uses a poi.. there are several art forms that use a poi rather than 2.. but the tool is what it is.. and the generic verb that cna group them would be 'poi' or any other word that refers to weight on strings in the generic sense.. to refer to a specific genre is to refer to a particular tool..
your term glowstringing in the context of your site refers to a particular use of the tool, and not as your definition says (the one we use) as using that tool..
stone- I'm only differentiateing by tool because that is how you define what you do.. you can't say that fire spinning and glowstringing look the same.. even if the same routine is done.. because fire simply is not a glowstick.. nor a sock nor a rope dart.. its the cultures that make them different.. and the tool.. that's all.. but the tool also makes them the same.. that's what makes it so beautiful..
aldrillf- actually the rope daggers and darts I've seen have a ball right before the dagger/dart.. with feathers.. so that should you trace it would not touch you but be pointing for the most part at an angle away.. I'd be more than happy to show you how any tool that can be called poi is capable of doing any move.. the moves are inconsequential.. the tool is the only thing that is different.. again, you are missing the point about it being possible with practice.. I never said certain tools didn't make things easier.. but as stated before.. to master the skill (ie movement) you should be able to do it with any medium.. not just your own.. lest its the tool that does the move.. not you,., with that I close that offtopic rant.. I really see no room here for credible argument.. you know the statement.. you know the question.. I stand with the statement being false..
there is a verb form of dancing with stringed glowsticks-- glowstringing.
this is exactly my point... thus anything that the medium is used for (including moves seen as traditional poi) are considered glowstringing..
however this is not what you encourage, nor condone on your site whihc is why people feel the need to curb what they say or not say at all, lest they get chastized by the admin..
and dave, when I say that rope dart and what not are poi.. I never said 'modern' poi.. I said the generic use of the term poi.. as in something that uses a poi.. there are several art forms that use a poi rather than 2.. but the tool is what it is.. and the generic verb that cna group them would be 'poi' or any other word that refers to weight on strings in the generic sense.. to refer to a specific genre is to refer to a particular tool..
your term glowstringing in the context of your site refers to a particular use of the tool, and not as your definition says (the one we use) as using that tool..
stone- I'm only differentiateing by tool because that is how you define what you do.. you can't say that fire spinning and glowstringing look the same.. even if the same routine is done.. because fire simply is not a glowstick.. nor a sock nor a rope dart.. its the cultures that make them different.. and the tool.. that's all.. but the tool also makes them the same.. that's what makes it so beautiful..
aldrillf- actually the rope daggers and darts I've seen have a ball right before the dagger/dart.. with feathers.. so that should you trace it would not touch you but be pointing for the most part at an angle away.. I'd be more than happy to show you how any tool that can be called poi is capable of doing any move.. the moves are inconsequential.. the tool is the only thing that is different.. again, you are missing the point about it being possible with practice.. I never said certain tools didn't make things easier.. but as stated before.. to master the skill (ie movement) you should be able to do it with any medium.. not just your own.. lest its the tool that does the move.. not you,., with that I close that offtopic rant.. I really see no room here for credible argument.. you know the statement.. you know the question.. I stand with the statement being false..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
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"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
![coleman]()
big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...
Total posts: 7330
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...
Total posts: 7330
Posted:cynicdave, thank-you for reading and may i say that was an excellent post - very well worded and not at all inflammatory.
i'm not saying i expected you to be aggressive or reactionary but i know persoanlly that it is difficult to not be very defensive when trying to explain your opinion in the face of so many different/opposing ones.
i still think we see things a little differently but i am beginning to understand your viewpoint far better now (i have not read all the old gsc posts linked to here - i have only made my opinions from what has been said in this thread).
Written by: Cynicdave1
it's what you DO with the tool that set things apart. If you play basketball with a soccerball, you are playing basketball. If you are juggling chainsaws, you aren't ... chopping down trees, but juggling.
so if i am poi-ing with glowsticks, am i poi-ing or glowsticking...?
by your examples above and your point that "it is not the tool but what you are doing with it", i would be poi-ing with glowsticks.
if you can describe to me how it is possible to glowstick with poi, i will be totally convinced that glowsticking is an art separate from poi but as it stands, i cannot.
as for your question, it is a good one
i would say when glowsticking gets to that point, it has a right to its own category.
i don't think glowstringing will ever have that much variation, but maybe glowsticking as a whole will.
i don't completely agree that your list of skills unique to glowsticking apply - many of the influences you mention were applied to poi way before the glowstickers took hold of them and those that were not, still apply to all poi in general, not just glowstringing.
link catches were discussed as 'colour changing throws/catches' here years ago.
string manipulation is also done with poi ('proper' thread the needle anyone...?) but i haven't seen much of this in glowsticking videos at all.
tracing are these the main part of 'mind games'? in your own words, its more like freehand glowsticking than anything else so that one *is* related to prop and imho is intrinsically a glowstick thing.
wrap technique (although undoubtedly taken to an extreme by the u.s. rave community) was here long-long ago - wraps were not invented by glowstringers, nor were they the first to look at martial arts and apply them to swinging - they just linked them all up in crazy combos (a result of the music that the culture developed in as much as how heavy their poi-heads are, imho)
glowstick placement is freehand - why is the string necessary at all for a placement?
so i can see that glowsticking involves maybe one or two unique elements that are completely independent of poi development.
but for me, of the elements of glowsticking that do not come under 'poi technique', it is only tracing that really requires the string to be there.
so until i see more uses of glowsticks on stings that i haven't seen variation of before in poi, i still think 99% of what you can do with glowsticks on strings is derived directly from poi swinging.
this is a very interesting discussion
i (like durbs on this site has already spent 2 years doing) am currently learning liquid and bodypopping alongside contact juggling.
when i'm rolling balls around my body, it is blatently cj.
when i'm trying to glide and wave, its popping.
but when i isolate a ball in one hand and use my feet to float around, is it cj or is it dancing...?
i say its both - but i also would say that the combination doesn't warrant being set apart from either of those two arts.
cole. x
[edit: just seen daves's 'swinging juggling balls' definition of me swinging aerotech balls in nets on strings.
the definition apart from 'poi' there is a little ridiculous if you ask me.
it would then suggest that sockpoi with juggling balls in the end are a different tool/prop to sockpoi with a tennis ball in the end!
as far as i see it, the generic verb for swinging two weights on the end of two separate strings is "poi-ing".
glowstringing can only ever be a subdivision of this activity, based solely on prop construction - not on prop useage]
i'm not saying i expected you to be aggressive or reactionary but i know persoanlly that it is difficult to not be very defensive when trying to explain your opinion in the face of so many different/opposing ones.
i still think we see things a little differently but i am beginning to understand your viewpoint far better now (i have not read all the old gsc posts linked to here - i have only made my opinions from what has been said in this thread).
Written by: Cynicdave1
it's what you DO with the tool that set things apart. If you play basketball with a soccerball, you are playing basketball. If you are juggling chainsaws, you aren't ... chopping down trees, but juggling.
so if i am poi-ing with glowsticks, am i poi-ing or glowsticking...?
by your examples above and your point that "it is not the tool but what you are doing with it", i would be poi-ing with glowsticks.
if you can describe to me how it is possible to glowstick with poi, i will be totally convinced that glowsticking is an art separate from poi but as it stands, i cannot.
as for your question, it is a good one
i would say when glowsticking gets to that point, it has a right to its own category.
i don't think glowstringing will ever have that much variation, but maybe glowsticking as a whole will.
i don't completely agree that your list of skills unique to glowsticking apply - many of the influences you mention were applied to poi way before the glowstickers took hold of them and those that were not, still apply to all poi in general, not just glowstringing.
link catches were discussed as 'colour changing throws/catches' here years ago.
string manipulation is also done with poi ('proper' thread the needle anyone...?) but i haven't seen much of this in glowsticking videos at all.
tracing are these the main part of 'mind games'? in your own words, its more like freehand glowsticking than anything else so that one *is* related to prop and imho is intrinsically a glowstick thing.
wrap technique (although undoubtedly taken to an extreme by the u.s. rave community) was here long-long ago - wraps were not invented by glowstringers, nor were they the first to look at martial arts and apply them to swinging - they just linked them all up in crazy combos (a result of the music that the culture developed in as much as how heavy their poi-heads are, imho)
glowstick placement is freehand - why is the string necessary at all for a placement?
so i can see that glowsticking involves maybe one or two unique elements that are completely independent of poi development.
but for me, of the elements of glowsticking that do not come under 'poi technique', it is only tracing that really requires the string to be there.
so until i see more uses of glowsticks on stings that i haven't seen variation of before in poi, i still think 99% of what you can do with glowsticks on strings is derived directly from poi swinging.
this is a very interesting discussion
i (like durbs on this site has already spent 2 years doing) am currently learning liquid and bodypopping alongside contact juggling.
when i'm rolling balls around my body, it is blatently cj.
when i'm trying to glide and wave, its popping.
but when i isolate a ball in one hand and use my feet to float around, is it cj or is it dancing...?
i say its both - but i also would say that the combination doesn't warrant being set apart from either of those two arts.
cole. x
[edit: just seen daves's 'swinging juggling balls' definition of me swinging aerotech balls in nets on strings.
the definition apart from 'poi' there is a little ridiculous if you ask me.
it would then suggest that sockpoi with juggling balls in the end are a different tool/prop to sockpoi with a tennis ball in the end!
as far as i see it, the generic verb for swinging two weights on the end of two separate strings is "poi-ing".
glowstringing can only ever be a subdivision of this activity, based solely on prop construction - not on prop useage]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Posted:Written by: Cynicdave1
yes, i think i would have to agree completely with your new definition set, NYC.
YAY!
Now where'd I put my dead glowsticks and why is nobody showing me anymore gumbys dammit.
yes, i think i would have to agree completely with your new definition set, NYC.
YAY!
Now where'd I put my dead glowsticks and why is nobody showing me anymore gumbys dammit.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:Written by: NYC
Now where'd I put my dead glowsticks and why is nobody showing me anymore gumbys dammit.
April 30th ma man. That is when you shall learn some new stuff.
Now where'd I put my dead glowsticks and why is nobody showing me anymore gumbys dammit.
April 30th ma man. That is when you shall learn some new stuff.
We are defined by the choices we make
DeletePosted:Rev- I don't see where we have an issue. We both agree that moves are never imppossible when you change mediums, and we both agree that certain tools are easier for certain moves. We both agree on the same things, you can transfer moves from one tool to another, it's just certain tools allow you to do that move easier than others. We are saying the exact same thing.
missegyptology: I'm gonna be a terrorist when I grow up anyway
DeletePosted:Actually Adrillf, you use way more capitalization.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:Stupid proper grammar, I knew it would come back and haunt me!
8-}
8-}
missegyptology: I'm gonna be a terrorist when I grow up anyway
Delete
Posted:That was educational, I never really thought of glowsticking as a unique style as I've only ever spun poi with glowsticks on them.
Of course lighter toys lend themselves to wrapping more kindly than heavy practice poi do which is the reason I haven't put that much effort into studying wraps because everything I practice, I practice with the design of eventually doing it with fire. Call me a wimp, but I'm just not into the bruised look.
I looked around Gsc.com, nice looking site, but I never registered as a member, mostly because HOP looks after all my online spinning needs and I didn't want to become one of those inactive members who just downloads the occasional video, I found Kael's ,,,,the one labeled as 2-29-04 and that sucker is going to keep me busy for months.
Is the "unique culture" idea the one that gave rise to the poi separatist thread on this site? I have to deal with this our group, your group crap in my real life spinning,,, but such is life.
It's all about the flow anyway, regardless of toys.
Of course lighter toys lend themselves to wrapping more kindly than heavy practice poi do which is the reason I haven't put that much effort into studying wraps because everything I practice, I practice with the design of eventually doing it with fire. Call me a wimp, but I'm just not into the bruised look.
I looked around Gsc.com, nice looking site, but I never registered as a member, mostly because HOP looks after all my online spinning needs and I didn't want to become one of those inactive members who just downloads the occasional video, I found Kael's ,,,,the one labeled as 2-29-04 and that sucker is going to keep me busy for months.
Is the "unique culture" idea the one that gave rise to the poi separatist thread on this site? I have to deal with this our group, your group crap in my real life spinning,,, but such is life.
It's all about the flow anyway, regardless of toys.
Delete
Posted:I get the impression that quite a few people on GSC don't know a lot about poi at all - even including people like Wes. There seems to be a lack of concept of planes, timing and placement, and an idea that poi is all about moves like the weave and windmill.
Wes for instance talks about how a weave is a technical move because it always requires the "over-under-out" combination and thus limits your freedom. But this is only true if you've just learnt it and haven't gone further to the point where you stop doing "moves" and just use the techniques you've learnt from them to just spin. How often to good spinners just do a "weave" for instace rather than using weave-type motions to move the poi from a to b?
And it's just as possible for a poi spinner to take up hardly any room in a club - just requires cleaner planes and perhaps tricks like isolations and insides
Wes for instance talks about how a weave is a technical move because it always requires the "over-under-out" combination and thus limits your freedom. But this is only true if you've just learnt it and haven't gone further to the point where you stop doing "moves" and just use the techniques you've learnt from them to just spin. How often to good spinners just do a "weave" for instace rather than using weave-type motions to move the poi from a to b?
And it's just as possible for a poi spinner to take up hardly any room in a club - just requires cleaner planes and perhaps tricks like isolations and insides
"Moo," said the happy cow.
DeleteMissEgyptology
BRONZE Member since Feb 2005
![MissEgyptology]()
officially expelled from BYU
Location: Southern California, USA
Total posts: 195
BRONZE Member since Feb 2005
officially expelled from BYU
Location: Southern California, USA
Total posts: 195
Posted:Written by: Adrillf
Stupid proper grammar, I knew it would come back and haunt me!
8-}
What? WHAT! Fact: You and grammar do not get along. Editing your writing...it just hurts. Don't get too cockey
Stupid proper grammar, I knew it would come back and haunt me!
8-}
What? WHAT! Fact: You and grammar do not get along. Editing your writing...it just hurts. Don't get too cockey
"So Miss, I think you win the prize... A mormon egyptologist in a firespinning chat room... that's gotta be a record of some kind"
-NYC
Thanks, NYC,but I quit mormonism now XD
Posted:a big thank you to all those that kept an open-mind and read through this thread. i apperciate all the honest opinions and the ones who kept this thread to its integrity without letting past beef influence their tone.
the reason why you see glowstring-oriented move done by poi-ers is probably because the poi community is also influenced by glowstring community.
couple definition of moves that i think you might have misunderstood:
- link catch is referred to catching the glowsticks after a tangle (tangled catch). for glowstringing this was discovered years ago also (2002 more specifically).
the whole idea of "catching" just makes more sense to be done with glowsticks than either fire or socks. fire is obvious (need extra protection gear to lengthen hold time), socks leave no trails if you were to move the hold around after catching. glowsticks allows catching, and create more patterns AFTER catching without ever releasing.
- string manipulation is actually what you called "mind game." i personally dislike both of these terms because they tell you very little about what it's actually being done and therefore creates confusion.
but anyway, string manipulation refers to varies sequences (vague, i know) that involves many catches and releases either around arm, hand, or fingers. picture how yoyo-ers set up their tricks by having the string go around their hands and arms... that's kind of how it is.
string wraps is sometimes grouped with "string manipulation." string wrap is referring to a catch done by pinching one of the glowstick in your armpit or behind your knee. then wrap the other glowstick around the pinched string.
tracing is done by DRAGGING the glowstick around a body part. for example, swing one glowstick towards your neck clockwise as if you are going for a neck wrap. as soon as (or right before) it hits, move your hand around your neck counterclockwise to drag the glowstick, so that it spins around your neck. similar to the tracing in freehand glowsticking.
wrap techniques: i don't think any of us is claiming that glowstringers "invented" wraps (this statement is included in the article if you read it). but rather, it's the CONCEPT and PHILOSOPHY of wrap combos that's unique to glowstringing.
due to the size and weight of the glowsticks and the elasticity of shoelaces, you can see why this area is excelled. a good parallel to draw here: "alternate arm wraps is the glowstring version of thread the needle." glowstringers rarely look at each individual wraps as moves, but rather, they construct wraps into combos/moves in a pattern that's not really "traditional-poi." if you confused about what i refer to as alternate arm wraps please goto the link below:
http://www.glowsticking.com/nu/index.php?itemid=30&catid=3
br>
like you said, "they just linked them all up in crazy combos." that's exactly right. the different pattern within each combo that is constructed by different individual is where glowstringers value as uniqueness and style.
glowstick placement: why is the string necessary? it can be part of the setup into string wrap (as mentioned above). it can transfer between glowstringing and freehand glowsticking. you can move it around to create different patterns (contrast of circular and non-circular) after it's placed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hope this help clearing up some terms.
so again i ask the same interesting question: if a glowstringer attempts to keep it "pure" and select movesets that are not really in-line with traditional-poi, but rather, other unique elements that has nothing to do with poi.
what then?
EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1112978513)
the reason why you see glowstring-oriented move done by poi-ers is probably because the poi community is also influenced by glowstring community.
couple definition of moves that i think you might have misunderstood:
- link catch is referred to catching the glowsticks after a tangle (tangled catch). for glowstringing this was discovered years ago also (2002 more specifically).
the whole idea of "catching" just makes more sense to be done with glowsticks than either fire or socks. fire is obvious (need extra protection gear to lengthen hold time), socks leave no trails if you were to move the hold around after catching. glowsticks allows catching, and create more patterns AFTER catching without ever releasing.
- string manipulation is actually what you called "mind game." i personally dislike both of these terms because they tell you very little about what it's actually being done and therefore creates confusion.
but anyway, string manipulation refers to varies sequences (vague, i know) that involves many catches and releases either around arm, hand, or fingers. picture how yoyo-ers set up their tricks by having the string go around their hands and arms... that's kind of how it is.
string wraps is sometimes grouped with "string manipulation." string wrap is referring to a catch done by pinching one of the glowstick in your armpit or behind your knee. then wrap the other glowstick around the pinched string.
tracing is done by DRAGGING the glowstick around a body part. for example, swing one glowstick towards your neck clockwise as if you are going for a neck wrap. as soon as (or right before) it hits, move your hand around your neck counterclockwise to drag the glowstick, so that it spins around your neck. similar to the tracing in freehand glowsticking.
wrap techniques: i don't think any of us is claiming that glowstringers "invented" wraps (this statement is included in the article if you read it). but rather, it's the CONCEPT and PHILOSOPHY of wrap combos that's unique to glowstringing.
due to the size and weight of the glowsticks and the elasticity of shoelaces, you can see why this area is excelled. a good parallel to draw here: "alternate arm wraps is the glowstring version of thread the needle." glowstringers rarely look at each individual wraps as moves, but rather, they construct wraps into combos/moves in a pattern that's not really "traditional-poi." if you confused about what i refer to as alternate arm wraps please goto the link below:
http://www.glowsticking.com/nu/index.php?itemid=30&catid=3
br>
like you said, "they just linked them all up in crazy combos." that's exactly right. the different pattern within each combo that is constructed by different individual is where glowstringers value as uniqueness and style.
glowstick placement: why is the string necessary? it can be part of the setup into string wrap (as mentioned above). it can transfer between glowstringing and freehand glowsticking. you can move it around to create different patterns (contrast of circular and non-circular) after it's placed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hope this help clearing up some terms.
so again i ask the same interesting question: if a glowstringer attempts to keep it "pure" and select movesets that are not really in-line with traditional-poi, but rather, other unique elements that has nothing to do with poi.
what then?
EDITED_BY: mixinluv2u (1112978513)
Delete
Posted:Re: string manipulation search in the poi section for "negative space" and you'll see similar concepts coming from a contact juggling/artistic direction.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Delete
Posted:past beef Wes?
Try present beef with you.
I've tried to call time on this so many times... but you... well...
What if / when you succeed in totally parting your community from poi?
Well, then, it wouldn't be poi.
But I hope you still allow your community to try it out - they might like it?
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to say goodbye on gs.c so I'll say it now in case:
Thanks to the gs.c community.
I've really enjoyed and appreciated seeing all the fantastic new 'moves' and 'styles' ideas floating around the site..
but, especially enjoyed meeting the cool cats on the boards.
Hope to cross paths in the future online somewhere or maybe even 'burningman'
Jo.
Try present beef with you.
I've tried to call time on this so many times... but you... well...
What if / when you succeed in totally parting your community from poi?
Well, then, it wouldn't be poi.
But I hope you still allow your community to try it out - they might like it?
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to say goodbye on gs.c so I'll say it now in case:
Thanks to the gs.c community.
I've really enjoyed and appreciated seeing all the fantastic new 'moves' and 'styles' ideas floating around the site..
but, especially enjoyed meeting the cool cats on the boards.
Hope to cross paths in the future online somewhere or maybe even 'burningman'
Jo.
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
DeletePosted:Written by: spiralx
I get the impression that quite a few people on GSC don't know a lot about poi at all - even including people like Wes. There seems to be a lack of concept of planes, timing and placement, and an idea that poi is all about moves like the weave and windmill.
Wes for instance talks about how a weave is a technical move because it always requires the "over-under-out" combination and thus limits your freedom. But this is only true if you've just learnt it and haven't gone further to the point where you stop doing "moves" and just use the techniques you've learnt from them to just spin. How often to good spinners just do a "weave" for instace rather than using weave-type motions to move the poi from a to b?
And it's just as possible for a poi spinner to take up hardly any room in a club - just requires cleaner planes and perhaps tricks like isolations and insides
you are probably right. i always admit to it that i'm not a great poi-er. but i consider myself a decent glowstringer. and there lies the difference.
i understand planes and timing. and i also understand that they themselves are inherantly technical in nature. (turn during specific time, transferring between parallel planes, difficulty to transfer between non-parallel planes with lighter object such as glowsticks). and i have mentioned utilization of the understanding of planes within combo construction on Glowsticking.com, you must have missed it.
but like i said, i never think of myself as a good poi-er. in fact i'm pretty horrible at it when you give me a set of poi. but i'm decent when you give me a pair of glowsticks on shoelaces.
with heavier set of poi, i can spin slower, and add more body movement, and break down moves and isolate a lot. but i rarely practice any of those because my main focus is glowstringing.
with lighter set of glowsticks, i can wrap a lot more extensively and use that to create a pattern/combo of my own. that's what i ususally spend my practice time on. and that's what i'm decent at.
I get the impression that quite a few people on GSC don't know a lot about poi at all - even including people like Wes. There seems to be a lack of concept of planes, timing and placement, and an idea that poi is all about moves like the weave and windmill.
Wes for instance talks about how a weave is a technical move because it always requires the "over-under-out" combination and thus limits your freedom. But this is only true if you've just learnt it and haven't gone further to the point where you stop doing "moves" and just use the techniques you've learnt from them to just spin. How often to good spinners just do a "weave" for instace rather than using weave-type motions to move the poi from a to b?
And it's just as possible for a poi spinner to take up hardly any room in a club - just requires cleaner planes and perhaps tricks like isolations and insides
you are probably right. i always admit to it that i'm not a great poi-er. but i consider myself a decent glowstringer. and there lies the difference.
i understand planes and timing. and i also understand that they themselves are inherantly technical in nature. (turn during specific time, transferring between parallel planes, difficulty to transfer between non-parallel planes with lighter object such as glowsticks). and i have mentioned utilization of the understanding of planes within combo construction on Glowsticking.com, you must have missed it.
but like i said, i never think of myself as a good poi-er. in fact i'm pretty horrible at it when you give me a set of poi. but i'm decent when you give me a pair of glowsticks on shoelaces.
with heavier set of poi, i can spin slower, and add more body movement, and break down moves and isolate a lot. but i rarely practice any of those because my main focus is glowstringing.
with lighter set of glowsticks, i can wrap a lot more extensively and use that to create a pattern/combo of my own. that's what i ususally spend my practice time on. and that's what i'm decent at.
Delete
Posted:GS.C never banned or dis-allowed glowstringers to mix in poi. in fact, most glowstringers still do. most poi-ers mix glowstring concepts too.
Delete
Posted:spiralx: i searched for "negative space" and the thread discussing it was made in 2004. if you looked at Chicago Compilation video string wrap was discovered in 2002 before Thanksgiving. and soon after there were combos constructed with moves shooting the other glowstick through the "loop" after pinching one. (aka negative space, right?)
i'm not claiming who invented what, but i'm saying that both can be discovered independently. and if we all take a step back, the utilization and visual outcome of it will be different. yes?
i'm not claiming who invented what, but i'm saying that both can be discovered independently. and if we all take a step back, the utilization and visual outcome of it will be different. yes?
Delete
coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
![coleman]()
big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...
Total posts: 7330
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...
Total posts: 7330
Posted:cheers for the clarifications on terms wes.
"they construct wraps into combos/moves in a pattern that's not really "traditional-poi."
this is a strange comment - have you ever seen traditional poi?
i doubt it after reading that sentence since its all about the wraps.
i would address the rest of your points but i don't think they need to be - i still don't see how these things give rise to the idea that 'glowstringing' is not just a style of poi swinging.
i don't use fire, socks or glowsticks - i use led juggling balls in nets on the end on shoelaces.
all of the things you list here are attainable with poi of that setup as they are with poi using glowsticks as the head.
i still don't see why these elements of POI STYLE warrants a verb of its own 'glowstringing'.
as far as i know, the prop that i spin with (aerotech balls in nets on strings) originated in and are almost exclusively confined to the uk.
using this prop has added some moves and movesets to my spinning that sockpoi or firepoi would not have produced or do not lend themselves to as well.
but i do not try to claim that spinning these props are a separate artform to poi - i do not claim the verb 'aeronetstringing' to describe what i do to set it apart from firepoi or sockpoi.
different types of poi setup (handles, string, head) encourage and favour different movesets and styles.
but it is all poi.
like i said before, if you can show me a move you do with glowsticks on strings that can't be done with any other types of poi setup, i will concede that glowsticks on string are not a type of poi.
until then 'glowstringing' will remain a term that means 'poi with glowsticks' and little else.
cole. x
[edit: sorry wes but your post that quotes spiralx and says you are a glowstringer not a poi-er is nonsense - all it states is that you are used to a particular type of poi i.e. light ones.
i'm not saying everything comes from people who play with sockpoi - undoubtedly many movesets and styles grew out of the culture that pois with glowsticks - but there is not enough differentiation in the tool or the basic movesets to set it apart from any other poi style.]
EDITED_BY: coleman (1112979933)
"they construct wraps into combos/moves in a pattern that's not really "traditional-poi."
this is a strange comment - have you ever seen traditional poi?i doubt it after reading that sentence since its all about the wraps.
i would address the rest of your points but i don't think they need to be - i still don't see how these things give rise to the idea that 'glowstringing' is not just a style of poi swinging.
i don't use fire, socks or glowsticks - i use led juggling balls in nets on the end on shoelaces.
all of the things you list here are attainable with poi of that setup as they are with poi using glowsticks as the head.
i still don't see why these elements of POI STYLE warrants a verb of its own 'glowstringing'.
as far as i know, the prop that i spin with (aerotech balls in nets on strings) originated in and are almost exclusively confined to the uk.
using this prop has added some moves and movesets to my spinning that sockpoi or firepoi would not have produced or do not lend themselves to as well.
but i do not try to claim that spinning these props are a separate artform to poi - i do not claim the verb 'aeronetstringing' to describe what i do to set it apart from firepoi or sockpoi.
different types of poi setup (handles, string, head) encourage and favour different movesets and styles.
but it is all poi.
like i said before, if you can show me a move you do with glowsticks on strings that can't be done with any other types of poi setup, i will concede that glowsticks on string are not a type of poi.
until then 'glowstringing' will remain a term that means 'poi with glowsticks' and little else.
cole. x
[edit: sorry wes but your post that quotes spiralx and says you are a glowstringer not a poi-er is nonsense - all it states is that you are used to a particular type of poi i.e. light ones.
i'm not saying everything comes from people who play with sockpoi - undoubtedly many movesets and styles grew out of the culture that pois with glowsticks - but there is not enough differentiation in the tool or the basic movesets to set it apart from any other poi style.]
EDITED_BY: coleman (1112979933)
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003
![Rovo]()
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Total posts: 544
GOLD Member since Jul 2003
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Total posts: 544
Posted:I personally think glowstringing is just another form of poi. It's all inherently same to me cause I spin fire socks and glowsticks. I started out glowsticking and used to be a member of Gs.c but my account disappeared a couple years ago or so.
Anyway to mixinluv2u and some other glowstringers I thnk some poi-ppl might take offense to the way you describe spinning poi. After readin articles on your site and the discussion on here it seems like you don't understand how spinning poi is unique. Just like spiralx said the different timings you choose to move your hands or what points your hand move to all make up a unique style. I get this feeling you guys think poi is all basically the same moves and there nothing unique when in fact theres alot of variable you havn't taken into consideration. Spinning poi once you stop spinning moves is alot like what you do with wraps. You take wraps and link them together to make combos. Poi spinners do almost the same thing except wiht peices of moves. I have long strings of peices of moves that I put together to make a "combo" it really is the same thing except you focus mainly on wraps and other poi uses all the different ways of spinning including wraps. Both styles are basically doing the same thing except one concentrates mainly on wraps. I don't see that kuch of a difference myself.
I'm glad this threead hasn't turned into a "shouting match". As so many others on this topic has.
Anyway to mixinluv2u and some other glowstringers I thnk some poi-ppl might take offense to the way you describe spinning poi. After readin articles on your site and the discussion on here it seems like you don't understand how spinning poi is unique. Just like spiralx said the different timings you choose to move your hands or what points your hand move to all make up a unique style. I get this feeling you guys think poi is all basically the same moves and there nothing unique when in fact theres alot of variable you havn't taken into consideration. Spinning poi once you stop spinning moves is alot like what you do with wraps. You take wraps and link them together to make combos. Poi spinners do almost the same thing except wiht peices of moves. I have long strings of peices of moves that I put together to make a "combo" it really is the same thing except you focus mainly on wraps and other poi uses all the different ways of spinning including wraps. Both styles are basically doing the same thing except one concentrates mainly on wraps. I don't see that kuch of a difference myself.
I'm glad this threead hasn't turned into a "shouting match". As so many others on this topic has.
Peace, Love, Circles
Deleteonewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3252
GOLD Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: coleman
i don't use fire, socks or glowsticks - i use led juggling balls in nets on the end on shoelaces.
all of the things you list here are attainable with poi of that setup as they are with poi using glowsticks as the head.
i still don't see why these elements of POI STYLE warrants a verb of its own 'glowstringing'.
Until you mentioned 'aerotech' I was in agreement
but super light glowsticks and heavy/hard aerotech balls are very unalike. Put two people side by side with a set of each, in the dark, and the difference will be very obvious.
You can try to match the moves, but it's like knocking in a nail with a brick- it'll work, but you'd be better off using a hammer.
Written by: coleman
i still don't see why these elements of POI STYLE warrants a verb of its own 'glowstringing'.
...... i do not claim the verb 'aeronetstringing' to describe what i do to set it apart from firepoi or sockpoi.
You're looking at this very black-and-white, and only looking at certain elements (IMO)
There's not a style called 'aeronetstringing', partly because, unlike glowsticking, there's not a substantial community (both on-line and in reality (raves etc) that use the tool you do).
If a community grew up focusing on spinning with aerotechs, and developed a style of spinning (through both taking moves/ideas from other styles, and their own innovation), then 'aeronetstringing' could well be a style of it's own too.
i don't use fire, socks or glowsticks - i use led juggling balls in nets on the end on shoelaces.
all of the things you list here are attainable with poi of that setup as they are with poi using glowsticks as the head.
i still don't see why these elements of POI STYLE warrants a verb of its own 'glowstringing'.
Until you mentioned 'aerotech' I was in agreement
but super light glowsticks and heavy/hard aerotech balls are very unalike. Put two people side by side with a set of each, in the dark, and the difference will be very obvious.
You can try to match the moves, but it's like knocking in a nail with a brick- it'll work, but you'd be better off using a hammer.
Written by: coleman
i still don't see why these elements of POI STYLE warrants a verb of its own 'glowstringing'.
...... i do not claim the verb 'aeronetstringing' to describe what i do to set it apart from firepoi or sockpoi.
You're looking at this very black-and-white, and only looking at certain elements (IMO)
There's not a style called 'aeronetstringing', partly because, unlike glowsticking, there's not a substantial community (both on-line and in reality (raves etc) that use the tool you do).
If a community grew up focusing on spinning with aerotechs, and developed a style of spinning (through both taking moves/ideas from other styles, and their own innovation), then 'aeronetstringing' could well be a style of it's own too.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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