Forums > Social Discussion > Glowstringing, Fact or Fiction?

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mixinluv2umember
129 posts
Location: chicago suburb, IL


Posted:
Just curious, how do you guys view glowstringing?

couple questions to focus/start off the discussion:

Is glowstringing and poi one and the same or different? If it's different then how do you define glowstringing and seperate the two?

Do glowstringers have a unique set of moves outside of traditional poi moves?

Should the difference in each tool/medium (glowstring vs sock poi vs fire poi) be emphasized? Or should all of them be spun the same way?

How do you define/develop style and originality in poi? Should the same principles of style and originality be applied to glowstringing? Or can glowstringing have their own principles and methodologies?

Are there differences in cultural background and philosophy between poi and glowstringing?

KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA


Posted:
No, I believe as one of the glowstringers over at gs.c and as a poist of HoP that the "possession" of the activity and culture is not what it's about.

We're not claiming we 'possess' or 'own' glowstringing, and that no one else is entitled to it or the nomer. Yes, we are pushing for a different sort of dance. The label is what counts.

Are there that many good examples of the differences? No. Not yet.

But are we trying to differenciate and push further? Yes.

It's not our place to say who 'owns' it as indeed, who knows who the first person to swing glowsticks on strings was? Maybe some drugged out faded raver wink

But I can speak as one who got into glowstringing/poi without being a raver that the label distinction is helpful in pushing either one further. Otherwise I'm limited in my respected fields.

Dave, I totally agree that if it weren't for the internet, none of thise would be possible. Innovations in California, Illinois, Texas, New York are spreading all across the US and further through sites like gs.c. Much like ideas are coming around the world through HoP.

But then again - taking a step back to look at the all encompassing universe and I feel quite insignificant.
*goes back to his dancing smile

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire


chaseSILVER Member
Member
43 posts
Location: Jasper, Alberta, Canada


Posted:
I wonder how long it will be (or maybe if its been done) until someone glowstrings in one hand and spins poi with the other biggrin hehe, a bunch of wraps from one hand and large flowing circles from the other - just as a simple example of course smile

I can personally see the distinction between poi and glowstringing - from the emphasis on moves to culture; but then that is a simplified generalization. I know it has been said, but each catagory is what you make of it. Of course, from my experience, spinning poi in a park during the day receives (generally) a more welcome response then glowstringing with dead glowsticks. But that also has to do with a few people's negative view of raves and their association of glowsticks with raves. Of course, here in North America (and I'm genralizing again) I get weird looks for dancing in public, and even out at the pop night clubs - dancing is seen as for girls while guys act all cool and macho. I've been told it is not the same in Europe. Well, I'll find out in the fall...Euro trip...weeeeee. bounce

...it's safe to say that relationships inspired by the art of poi are not necessarily 'poi'fect...!


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
sorry kael - i think the word possession had very negative connotations which i did not mean to imply.



removing 'possession' from dave's quote, it expresses for me what i think has led to gs being regarded as separate from any other style of poi spinning:



Written by: onewheeldave



I suspect that there's an element of some people in the rave scene who spin, being a bit blinkered.



i.e. they spend a lot of times at raves, and little time at non-rave spinning events, or the non-rave spinning events they do go to tend to be frequented by ravers etc.



So they come to equate poi with raving.








this is true of many spinners in both britain and america.



but the american raver community was limited to a partiular setup (glowsticks on strings) and was so separated from any other poi communities, that they chose to name what they do 'glowstringing'.





what i meant by 'possession' is thinking that the style of spinning you do is so unique that it is seen fit to rename the activity.



this is all just my opinion - i'm expressing it so others understand how i see all this.

i am not arguing against the differentiation here, nor am i trying to prove that it is wrong.







cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA


Posted:
No offense taken, cole.

Different cultures will see things differently, that is a given.

I don't want to argue either. I just like to dance, learn, and teach. But I will stand up for my fellow community. wink

I'm sure we can continue to share and learn as well as maintain our own separate and unique cultures. smile

<-crazy yank

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Thanks guys. I think its like OWD said about there being lots of different influences. Though Im with rev, and Im wondering what was going on earlier, back in the 70/80s.

Its really been a fire staff - dance culture in oz, and poi was rare up until 02/03. The growth of poi follwed a similar time line to spherculists Glastonbury experiences. Which supports the internet theory.

Although, I'm sure much of that internet growth was due to people seeing poi at parties, festivals, raves etc. and wanting to find out more about poi. I originally found HOP from a doof site, and I think both tightly linked, despite peoples attempts to distance themselves from the rave scene.

The one thing that stands out as being different with glowsticking, is the incorporation of freestyle.


smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
That's a really good write up; it's good to get some yo-yo perspective.





What is juggling? Some jugglers would be happy to define it as 'object manipulation', in which case contact would indeed by juggling (as would poi); others would define it as 'there being at least one more object in the air than there are hands to throw/catch them'- in that case 'contact juggling' would not be juggling.



The real answer is that there is no 'real' definition of juggling- different people define it in different (and contradictory ways).



My opinion is that it's all very well to say-



Written by: ShawnF







A guy talked about how juggling was any interesting manipulation of objects, even including your own body. That is a super-broad definition that arguably includes dance.










and emphasise the wholistic, encompassing, 'new-age' aspects of this amazing skill of juggling that I've personally spent most of my life practicing.



But, then again, to say that juggling is anything to do with object manipulation, has the downside of a term being rendered somewhat useful for description purposes.



We have diabalo, devil sticks, poi, contact etc- if you call them all 'juggling', suddenly the term becomes pretty useless.



And, if you want to describe 'three-ball work' you have to invent a new term, say, 'toss juggling', which then means exactly the same as the old one did('juggling').



So, for me, I use the term 'circus skills' to cover the whole lot; however, that's only when trying to describe it to the general public (non-jugglers), because I know that 'circus-skills' is innacurate too- it implies that these skills have their origins purely in the circus, and that is not so (a prime example being poi).



So 'object manipulation' is possibly an even better umberella term.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


ShawnFmember
162 posts
Location: Springfield, MA - USA


Posted:
Yeah, I can agree with that. I've used "object manipulation" myself before. The main problem is that it doesn't really roll off the tongue, and unfortunately it seems like that is one of the main deciding factors on whether a term really "sticks" in terms of general use. Good for semantic discussions like this and reference pages, I doubt we'll see any newspaper articles on "object manipulation" heh.

I guess my main concern isn't over the name itself but in the attitudes the definition can foster. If you feel that a place like a juggling club might be your main option for hanging out with other openminded people to do all kinds of different stuff, encountering someone who both has a limited definition of juggling and thinks less of those things not fitting that definition is where the trouble can come in...

Luckily there seems to be little elitism in this area (Umass Juggling Club) where a yo-yo player is even a treasurer. smile Yo-yoers also seemed to be pretty well received at the BUJA convention in Boston, which was nice. I've heard some bad stories from other areas, though.

Shawn

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Hi ShawnF, I enjoyed your comments.

I loved yo-yo as a kid, but admittedly I had never thought of yo-yo as a form of poi. I think poi can be defined if we look at these examples from: Maori performance arts, Poi Toa and HoP.

I think the other props and weapons can be defined by their history or the paths of evolution as you suggested. Because, it seems evident that yo-yo has a history that suggests it is not poi. While meteor, rope dart and Indian clubs all evolved independently.

This doesnt prove anything one way or another, it just shows an independent evolution. Im not even going to even try to answer the obvious glowstick question here.

Good point regarding dance as juggling. Apparently the butterfly, a contact-juggling move, is copied from a Middle Eastern dance. Snake arms are used in middle-eastern dance, clubs and poi. And dance, put the hula in hoop.

No comment of baton and staff twirling's cultures.

I dont think it will get past the agree to disagree" stage. But does it matter? People are tying new things, and everyone is passionate about these arts.

Thanks, great read.

cheers smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
OK I have to do this.

*breathes*



We made a sand sculpture scorpion for Moonfest last night... used a green/orange glowie for the sting at the end of the tail...



Led to the obvious question...



Glowstinging.,, Fact or fiction?!?!?!?!

wink

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


Dr_MollyPooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
ubblol

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
tongue ubblol



at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the sting is made of, its the poison inside it that counts wink





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol
clap clap clap

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
*Wick* ed humour there Cole

(how do you get bold type?!?) confused

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
And why is this thread telling me that it is * how to build an igloo...* as well as *glowstringing*....??? umm

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
It's a riddle.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Dr_MollyPooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
cole - you're a funny man hug

bold type is brought to us by the square brackets and the letter b

and it's called "how to build an igloo" because it isn't in the spirit of the thing to claim you can't build an igloo out of whatever you want and call it something terribly specific wink

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
grouphug to gabe and the chuckling crew smile



apologies for this - i thought it was all sorted out in my head and then i read something that seemed to suggest glowstick 'dancing' embraces all the elements that techy poi spinners are accussed of replacing dance with confused



it seems reading this that if you do poi with the dance bit removed, it suddenly makes it more glowstick in nature.



it also sounds like all poi spinners have exactly the same dance style when seen through a glowstickers eyes...



Written by: wes from the other thread in poi moves

well, my honest opinion is that it looks kind of ugly. there's really no thoughts behind it, nor is it artistic.



for the most part its swaying and side-stepping back and forth while wrapping. those movements are both generic and unnecessary. those movement has NOTHING to do with the wraps he is doing. he would sway the same way no matter what wraps he is doing. there's no thought behind it, he just does it just because. i see that as a bad habit.



to me a good dancer knows where his/her body is and what its doing at all times. eliminates unnecessary movements and add variety at the same time. compliments whatever else he is doing with the rest of the body movement.



and in this case, Kael did not do so. he just sways and sidesteps without care.



other movements he done are the quick spins and the under the leg swing while turning. how is that different than another persons when they did a weave/turn or under the leg swing turn? those movements are pretty much "built in" in the moves themselves. there's specific timing where you need to turn to make it work, and that goes for everyone.



with kael's case, his turns looks awfully similar to Nick's Devilishly Yers, but only a worse. less graceful. he even admitted that's where he tried to copy these from.






i don't think i understand your definition of 'dancing' ast all wes and i'm worried that i might be misinterpreting what you are saying.

it seems you think that any body movement whilst swinging is bad?



what defines 'good dance' for you when it comes to swinging poi and/or glowsticks...?



personally, i didn't think kael's movement style looked even remotely like nick's but there ya go...





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
Crikey chaps, not all poi spinners are techies sockies, wrappies or even English! There's amazing people dancing beautifully with poi all around me here. And contact staffs. And hackie sacks. Even the devil stickies are groovin!

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
that's what i was trying to ask - what exactly defines good dance with glowsticks and what do glowstickers think good dance with poi encompasses?

the criticism is often levelled at 'techy' poi spinners that they do not dance enough.


i personally tend not to bend my legs at all which limits my movement quite a bit but gives my style a definite look.
i turn lots, have a good concept of rhythm and tempo and i aim to move between definite body positions.

there seems to be a definite contrast in that glowstickers aim for a low amount of body-movement when swinging and i was wondering exactly what glowstickers see in poi swingers when they dance...


cole.

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
If I put green color to my fire Poi I will be glowstringer? smile

POI THEO(R)IST


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
Hi Cole
* not dance enough* is an interesting concept.

Every person I see spin has their own style... some people move heaps, take up heaps of space. The movement of their bodies is sometimes related to what they're playing with, sometimes the music ( if there is any), their mood, the phase of the moon... whatever. They move more and there can seem to more difference between them.

The sockwraptechyperloop types move far far less... to the point where I would not call it dance as such, but a movement style for sure.. they might look more 'similar' but the differences in how someone carries themselves, turns and so on are still there, more subtle.
And that's fine by me, I really enjoy watching them and really appreciate that way of being. Why should people who express the,seves so beautifully like that 'dance' more just because someone else does?

This isn't a 'sport' with ' rules' (and 'winners') surely?

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
I read it somewhere:

Glowstringing is life without glowstringin you'll die. smile

and

No crews, no battles,
we are just some friends who want to hang out
and do what we like to do.

Hope nothing changed , light
:R

POI THEO(R)IST


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
Nice one Richee, love the Rumi.... hug

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
And people wonder why countries don't get along.....

Pardon my confusion, but have I got this right?

In order to be a glowstringer you have to spin the right toys,,in the right way,,while dancing in the right style, to the right music.

Sounds pretty exclusive

I'm with Coleman on the Dervishly Yers / Kael comparison. I see a few of Nick's elements in Kael's videos, like the variation in spinning speed and a few of the turns but that's about it. They're both dramatically different styles,,and I like both of 'em.

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
lol Cole smile

I finally got to watch a vid of eric doing liquid, and it aint half-bad.

After thinking about yo-yo, juggling, hoop and all, Ive decided that for me its all just dancing with props.

snow cave anyone ?

cheers

smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: Richee


If I put green color to my fire Poi I will be glowstringer? smile




How do you color flames? That sounds like crazy talk.

wink
ubblol

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
NYC > I think Borid liquid from pharmacy used for st. i forgot help you (toxic a bit). Just jokin smile

light :R

POI THEO(R)IST


MissEgyptologyBRONZE Member
officially expelled from BYU
195 posts
Location: Southern California, USA


Posted:
A snow cave sounds fun! Of course, we don't want to open up that can of worms again. ubblol

"So Miss, I think you win the prize... A mormon egyptologist in a firespinning chat room... that's gotta be a record of some kind"
-NYC

Thanks, NYC,but I quit mormonism now XD


RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA


Posted:
buggers... I wonder if wes realises that the discussion he didnt want is still going.. and with new added shawn flavor..



but agree with nyc.. I think people are just making stuff up about colored flames wink they just wish deep down that they could be like us glokids and use all our ubersweet moves.. nana lolsign lolsign lolsign



and I prefer'd the how to build an igloo with a couple of fire poi and left over glostick juice.. that was cool too.. ubblol





miss egyptology- "what?!? you got your sandwich" or something to that effect ubbrollsmile









okay I'm gonna go take my meds now..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


JOKER99newbie
10 posts
Location: Antwerp, OH


Posted:
YOU CAN ADD DIFFERENT COLORS TO YOUR FIRE POI BY COMBINING DIFFERENT FLAMABLE LIQUIDS, BUT BE CAREFUL. SOME BURN OUT QUICKER THAT OTHERS AND SOME ARE QUITE TOXIC. I JUST LIKE TO EXPERIMENT. ubbidea

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