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Forums > Technical Discussion > Curvy Sticks and making them

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Hey Folks

Was just watching this

http://www.michaelmoschen.com/movies/player_curves.html
br>
and i thought.

I want some curved sticks.

Any ideas what metal would be bestest for bending/maintaining that kind of shape?

Ali? Titanium? Mild Steel?

Ideally the curved parts would be flat/wide to maximise the visual effect but i dont think i have the means ot make something like that. Tube i can get bent into shape here at work though.


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:i think ali to start

you would prob need to heat the metal to make it flexible, and then use a forma to get it the right shape

so cut your forma out in wood, and then use that to form the metal shape


i like the idea, but i think you would only be able to get the required sffect after a lot of trial and error, you must be able to buy them on teh net


Step (el-nombrie)

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:Actually I don't think it would be too overly difficult if you've got tools and the know-how.

I'm not sure if his are made of wood or metal, so I guess we might as well describe for both. The curves don't seem to be anything complicated. They aren't compound curves, just half circles. Building a jig for you to bend against shouldn't be very difficult either. If you build it out of wood there are methods using thin layers and multiple laminations on that jig to build up to the size you want. I'd recommend that over simply cutting it out of a sheet or else you'll have issues with strength.

As for metal, it depends what you're making it out of. Hollow tubing bent too tight tends to kink, hot or not so you'll need to be careful with that.

Aluminum would be easy to work with in some ways as its lighter, and softer. It work hardens fast though, and I would probably cold work it or your heating will only anneal it and cause it to be even softer than it would be otherwise. Depending on your skill level you could take solid aluminum rod, bend it and then flatten out the "flat" side of the S pattern. It gives it more strength and will also make that side a bit wider for a better effect like you said.

Using Titanium would just be a bit of a waste of money IMO. If you're intending fire on the end of these you'll annodize the titanium and turn it colors. If you want colors you can get aluminum annodized to whatever you want anyways.

Steel would be my choice, but thats because thats usually what I work with. Keep in mind its aluminum is roughly 1/3 the weight, but it's weaker..

More later if I'm concious..... peace

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:nice one lurch smile

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:i was thinking of a jog, but not the right word, would it not be possible to rom them in sections, so rather than have one jig,you would have three to four, and form a section of the curve at once

so make a jig to hold your bending jigs in teh right places for each section, and then ben dat a section at a time, thus removing teh worry of cooling and bad shapes

i would keep them as tubes if possible ado

if you flatten them out, i think you would lose some of the effect, in my mind tube looks better


Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:i reckon your right about the tubing anyway.

i'll let you know how i go guys

so many ideas.

curvy crosssssssss

curvey things inside hoops

i'll get some plastic tubing and experiment before i go bending metal


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:i would have through metal was easier?

Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:easier than plastic tubing that bends all by itself?

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:what plastic tubing is that

could you get some thin plastic tubingthat can be bant by hand

then get some tought metal wire, and use that inside of outside or weaved in and out throught wholes to cause it to stay in aone position....


Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:same stuff all the crazy kids are making hoops out of

think bows and arrows.... the curve is held in place with string...


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:yes, but thats not such a pronounced curve, its an arc, not a semi circle, the stress level of the plastic might not be right at the size you wnat it

(you do relise ill try and make a pair of these staffs right? {shamefullly i work in a primary school, and i used to work in a high school and would have had all teh work benches, fordges and tools there frown })


Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:i dont want smi circles

arcs are prettier smile


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:OK from looking at the video, at least some of his shapes aren't rigid, so plastic tube is probably a fun direction. I've got some 10mm UV-active bendy plastic tube somwhere, which would probably make some nice shapes with a sensible core.

If you want to bend metal tube you can get magic springs that you put inside it while you're bending it and it doesn't kink.

If you want staffs like the ones he was using, and you only want to use the middles, you could probably do something amusing with spring steel and fishing line. (Ooops, just read where you suggested that yourself...)

Another amusing possiblity would be to use pairs or bundles of things - I'm going to use withies and masking tape in my explanation, but many things will do:

take two withies, and masking tape the ends together. Push one of the withies longitudinally, so that it pushes the other one into a curve. Then tape it in place, and repeat for all the other curves you want. Once you've got the basic shape, you can add in more members for strength. So the whole system is keeping its shapes due to tension. This has the advantage that it will be a springy thing, so it shouldn't be too easy to knock out of shape.

I think you get spiral arcs rather than circular ones with this method. (Although of course a circle is one boundary condition of spirals blah blah blah wink )


monkeys ate my brain

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:
ubblol what is a withie confused this means of course that i dont understand at least half of your post smile

uv tube sounds tasty cool smile as does spring steel.

oh the possibilities


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Ah, yeah, you're not a hippy, sorry forgot wink

It's a length of willow, which is strong yet supple, and can be formed into many exciting shapes.

These rather friendly puppets are made out of withies spray painted:
[image]http://printf.net/~tkerby/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=beltane04&id=IMG_2710[/image]


monkeys ate my brain

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Fear-Tine
enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland
Member Since: 4th Dec 2004
Total posts: 227
Posted:mo-seph check out that hoop thing again that you dont think is rigid.look at everything
smile


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Hmmm... Still pretty sure it's flexible - the one he's holding between his hands. I thought it might just be a funny perspective thing, but I'm pretty sure it's a bendy hoop biggrin

monkeys ate my brain

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Fear-Tine
enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland
Member Since: 4th Dec 2004
Total posts: 227
Posted:I am so sure its solid that I am willing to put a 100euro(dont have or cant afford real money) bet on with you that its solid.

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:ubblol

im stickin to flexi too

biggrin


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Fear-Tine
enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland
Member Since: 4th Dec 2004
Total posts: 227
Posted:ubblol Fine im sticking with solid but we will assume its flexible.

ubbrollsmile


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marco
enthusiast
Location: uk
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 327
Posted:
Well, I'm building a set of matched curved staff, well, perhaps I should say supervising the project, if your after forming tubular alliminium and I would really recomend marine grade duralimin for this app, 22mm internal dia @ 1.5mm or above wall thickness, then to get matched curves find and engineering firm with a tube former, probably not the cheapest option, but you will get identically formed curves etc, the machine time is costing me about 30 quid for setup and bending, this will cover upto and hours work, so in theory I could get as many staffs bent in that time, materials will work out at 5 quid per six foot staff.

This is somewhere down in third or fourth position in my projects list along with a three dimensional staff design and cube, If i get four made it will work out about just over 12 quid including materials per staff, it is my intention to build for fire, so additional costs will be what ever amount of kevlar goes on.

mark


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:nice one marco

maybe you could take some pictures?


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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:For staffs:

If its aluminium,
I'd get a grade that you can heat treat after its bent and get it really stiff and strong.

Otherwise, you drop, you bend, you cry.

If you wnat to do it properly:
Bend it - in the anodised state,
either professionally or round wooden formers
Then Heat treat and anodize afterwards.

If this doen't make sense to you, then you're in trouble,
Aluimiuium is not 1 material its several thousand materials, and if you heat them up and cool them down at different rate, then the material properties change, its fantastically useful when you understand it, but its also a can of worms when you don't.
hence you'll get codes like 6063- T6

Moschen also has a white semit-ridged thing, this looks like it is flexible pvc


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:excellent

i reckon is my head doesnt burst i have enough info to make a start.

i'll make a couple of plastic/wood models to find a shape i like.

In the mean time i'll try to sweet talk our fitters here in work into helping me out.

:excitedwiggle:


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:would it be possible to use a pipe bender and bend it a section at a time?

Step (el-nombrie)

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:no smile
Well ye, but it would look kaka


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:a kaka stick

sounds like something tribal

I cant seem to find a decent supplier of ali in ireland.

the guys i get my stick stuff off said this when i asked about getting some samples.

'its ali, its all the same'

angry


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:how about using a press system, so lye the tube between two correctly shaped jigs, and then close the jig on the metal tube, and press it into shape?

Step (el-nombrie)

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Or just 1 wooden former, and pull your ali round it



ado-p (bangs head against a wall) yea, i get that a lot, they also thenk that theres only 3 types of steel, which is very sad. good luck smile

EDITED_BY: Glss (1111659416)


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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:generally better to pull the tubing around the form than press the form into the tubing...

Poor mans solution to kinked tubing is to fill it with sand before you bend. Careful of springback too, your bend won't stay as you bend it unless you heat it to get rid of the tension, which also screws up your temper.


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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Just wanted to say that video was rather amazing... The double hoop thingy was pretty nuts and hes got hoop isos down like butter.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Page: 12

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