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Nate
Nate

Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Member Since: 5th Aug 2004
Total posts: 1530
Posted:does anyone else find that when you're playing with your toys that you can try and get one particular trick for ages and ages then just suddenly click and then its there, you can do it all day

i find this extremely annoying because its unexplainable, or is it.......any answers?


I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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mtbeer
mtbeer

ARRRR!
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 529
Posted:There is a waiting list for the new trick fairy. You must be patient.

"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:We were talking about this. My input:

I seem to suddenly get a trick, or a move after practising for ages. But what confuses me is the fact that i seem to do nothing differently but i can suddenly do the move!
For instance in juggling, i'll drop the balls trying to do the tick for ages, then suddenly i would catch them! But i wouldn't have done anything differently!


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1489
Posted:answers for that, um nope

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Sakura_Moon
Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 1803
Posted:Happens all the time to me

.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:seems to happen to me when I stop thinking about it and just let it be.

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I think it gets "lost" between the conscious and subconscious. You're working on a new move,,,and not getting it, maybe you're getting frustrated which only makes things worse. You put down your poi, or spin moves you know how to do, then you come back to the move you're trying to learn, and hopefully you're that much closer to nailing it.

You're spinning session ends for the day, you hang up your poi on their gold plated hooks, and go to bed,,,the next morning you head outside, warm up a little and hey....I got it..

My theory is consciously thinking about the move is the first part of learning how to do it subconsciously and sometimes all it takes is a little time for those motions you've been thinking about,,concentrating on,,agonizing over....to make it into your subconscious,,or muscle memory if you will.

Remember when you first learned the three beat weave? "over,,under,,back" you were thinking...but now....you can do it while having a deep philosophical discussion the move is done subconsciously,,your body knows how to do it.

And then,,,you finally get the move you've been sweating over,,,and promptly loose it. maybe you're thinking about it too much,,maybe not enough, but in my opinion, it's lost in that twilight zone between the conscious and subconscious.


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Adya Miriyana
Adya Miriyana

*slou?
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 4th Feb 2005
Total posts: 6554
Posted:yep ditto

i'd been trying to do a move for a week, and i was just mucking around while talking to some people, then i did it. yay smile


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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:That's almost how I learn new moves.

It took me 3 years to learn the backwards 5 beat weave because my practising of it consisted of picking up the poi, trying it once to see if I could do it, then not trying it again for a couple of weeks.
Eventually, it worked one of the times I picked them up smile

I'll spend more time on moves that are more interesting, but they still seem to work the same way - it'll be no-where near working for ages, then it'll suddenly click.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Elemental666
member
Location: Bville, OK
Member Since: 22nd Feb 2005
Total posts: 45
Posted:this is something I have relied on for a long long time. As a systems developer i often had situations where the code looked spot on but something was going wrong and I just couldn't track it down. Even the very best coders go through this. I discovered very early that if I spend an hour or two trying to track the bug down with no luck that I just need to take a break and work on something completely unrelated. Then all the sudden like a mac truck it'd hit me.

I started applying this to my everyday life as well. When faced with some sort of delima I research my options and put a lot of energy and focus into finding possible solutions, then let it simmer in my subcon while I do something completely unrelated. One of two thing will inevitably occur. I'll either get hit by the solution or a different unconsidered solution will present itself. I think this phenomenon may be linked with what Budists call non-ado and Jungian syncronicity.

Sort of like not seeing the forest for the trees. YOu try too hard and overlook the solution. Then you relax and the solution finds you...

Grooviness ensues


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Gelfling
Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol
Member Since: 7th Jul 2004
Total posts: 665
Posted:This is due to the "memory" of your muscles. When you try to get your muscle to do something new they need to develop. The more practice you do the more they develop. At this stage it is the conscious part of your brain that is coordinating the muscles. Eventually this becomes an automatic response i.e. you can suddenly do the new move. Automatic responses happen a lot faster than conscious thought processes. Therefore, if you over concentrate you'll mess up. This also explains why someone who can juggle three ball can pick up poi moves more quickly than someone completely new to juggling skills for example reverse cascade using the same muscle sequence as butterfly.

>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:that makes a lot of sense

i've always wondered why, when i learn a new trick, i can do it from muscle memory only, for the 1st few weeks. it takes aaaaages before my brain actually figures out what i'm doing.

i love teaching, but don't ask me to teach a move until i've been doing if for a good while, i really won't be able to explain it at all for the 1st month or so....

been trying to nail the btb waistwrap for a while now, just with socks, but i've never got past the first half (starting at my left hip) kept getting tangled up with the bit behind my back.

last night i just picked them up and for some unknown reason i did about 7 perfect waistwraps in a row.... like i'd been doing it for ages.....

still no idea what i'm doing though... but whatever it is it works ubbrollsmile


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:Hee hee I've done things like that.. though not waistwraps.. leaving things for a while always help cause you get frustrated and start to tense up etc... its always great when it clicks.. though then your left trying to work out why you coudnt do it before.. hee hee

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted:angry I get that with every poi move i try. It sucks, but is strangley satisfying at the same time. I used to be only able to do the weave and a spastic version of the butterfly. I left for ages and went back to stuff and train vigourosly. One day I looked at my poi and thought "i remember those" picked em up, an hourlater I had the bacwards weave and a day later i had loads of new moves.

Never had it with staff tho.


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Jai - Staff
Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast
Member Since: 27th Oct 2004
Total posts: 85
Posted:he he he, i think it happens to everyone. i stopped staff for ages because of study then one day i picked it up again and all the things i could never get right suddenly just clicked. it was pretty cool.

I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

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ImmortalAngel
Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 19th Jan 2004
Total posts: 578
Posted:I think that it was said by Jujimufu on Trickstutorials.com best;
You just need to take your time, otherwise you'll start trying to hard, get frustrated and get no where.

Or something along those lines. I think this happens alot more in the spinning world (the random aquiring of new moves that is) than most other places. The spinning world is alot more relaxed and loose about things, and drinks alot more tea, than the average person.

if you're having problems with a move, sit down, have a cup of tea and try again later, or just move to another move.
I go through a dozen moves I can't do everyday. One day I'll manage to get one of them, doing nothing differently than the day before, so I'll replace that trick with a new move I can't do yet, and repeat the cycle.

I used to try doing 3 beat BTB weave every night for like half an hour of repeated failure.
I stopped for about a month. Tried it again just because I rememebred I hadn't tried in a while, got it, and got it really well, could do it for a few minutes before I messed up. Went straight from nothing at all for it, to fairly well.


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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PyroMonkey
PyroMonkey

b...bal...lence?....
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Member Since: 6th Jan 2005
Total posts: 370
Posted:yeah well thats just the way it is. you try a new trick and its....

WACK!! OWW!!!!!
WACK!! OWW!!!!!
WACK!! OWW!!!!!
WACK!! OWW!!!!!
WOOSH!! YAY!!!!


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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:When I was first learning Middle Eastern percussion I would have to recite funny little sentences and stuff to remember the basic rhythms. My hands were clumsy and it was like work. Then after a while the rhythms became like a scaffold or framework with loads of space inside to 'fill' with tricky little riffs and rolls (nearly said spliffs!) Or else I could leave beats out, have a very spacious funky thing going on but always know where I was in relation to the framework.

Now I"m learning poi and I realise that if I put the same time into that as I used into percussion (say an hour a day) that I could stop saying I was just a slow learner and get on with it!!!!

What I am finding frustrating sometimes is that I have some friends who are very fast learners and that makes me feel so inadequate! frown


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Zauberdach
Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 10th Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:hmmm, I have a similar thing where I try a new move and get it first time. Then I lose it completely and suck more than if I'd never got it because I then spend an hour going "how did I get it the first time, did I do it like this? *whack* nope..."

IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:Hee hee I hear ya loud and clear!! The worse thing is when your spinning with someone and you go ahh i cant do it ..try a few times with them watching and laughing then they go back to what they were doing.. the moment they turn their back.... your doin got perfectly.... then you go OOH OOH I CAN DO IT!! And they turn around in time to watch you whack yourself.....and you cant do it again.....

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:hello punch heli, where'd you come from?

hello backspin, where'd you come from?

hello scar between the eyes, you came from backspin!


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)
enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Member Since: 8th Jun 2004
Total posts: 456
Posted:I call this a "wa-wa" moment. I'm sure some of you will catch the reference.

When I first saw the title of this thread...well, let's just say my mind's in the gutter! [hangs head in shame]


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)
enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Member Since: 8th Jun 2004
Total posts: 456
Posted:<i>When I was first learning Middle Eastern percussion I would have to recite funny little sentences and stuff to remember the basic rhythms.</i>

WALK into HARlem SMOKing a REEFer,
SEE how you DANCE while CHEWing BUBblegum,
*I* am LOVEable PEOple will LIKE me,
THIS is HYdrogen, THAT is OXygen.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:Hee hee quality!! I find dropping the poi running arounf my garden a few times jumping about for a few minutes... and maybe a few cartwheels helps... i pick it up and... voila! Doesnt always work... but i think you should all try!

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:i hate not getting moves been trying btb butterfly for a while now and i jst keep getting it wrong in exactly the same way each time - ah well back to cleaning up my planes smile

back

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Mags The Jedi
Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK
Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 2020
Posted:Couldn't agree more, or add anything to what's above. Especially Stout's post up top. Quality stuff.

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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Nate
Nate

Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Member Since: 5th Aug 2004
Total posts: 1530
Posted:something i really hate sooo much is not having neat enough plains to do something

recently ive been trying btb buttterfly weave, i decided my plains werent clear enough on one side so i ran off and practiced alongside a wall to get my plains straighter, it worked when i whent back to trying th btb btterfly weave....once, now i cant get it again, reallly f**ked off at this


I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:Ooooooh, I just had something slightly different happen to me.
I've been able to do butterfly airwraps/hyperloops for ages. Could do them 'ok' never really understood what was going on. Then I learnt a new 'trick' with bf airwrap, then I learnt another, then......... 'click'. ubbidea I now 'get' them. I can 'see' the tangle in my head & know where it's going, how to move with it & how to get out of it... Before I had no idea wha tto do with them, now, almost instantly, I've thought of so many different variations & when trying them out, can do them with very little practice because I 'know' what's going on now! bounce2 bounce bounce2


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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pineapple pete
pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne
Member Since: 20th Sep 2004
Total posts: 5125
Posted:happened to me only last week. was tryin to do a wierd combo, then ended up doing the elusive forward btb weave.
happiness

cheers, pete biggrin


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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meghann
enthusiast
Location: good ol@ devon. cullompton to ...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2004
Total posts: 302
Posted:i always find ill be trying a trick for days, somtimes even weeks and all i have to show ffor it is bruises, but then one day ill just be sitting infrount of the tv fidgiting as usual and ill find im doing poi with my bhands, ill continue the movement then suddenly realise its the trick ive been trying to do for ages. ill go fetch poi while trying to maintain the hand movement and run oput side and do i with poi and bingo ill have the trick mastered. its so annoying but thats almost how i learn every trick, ill be trying for ages several people will try to teach me and nothing but bruises... then that... grrr!

ive learned
life is tough... but im tougher

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:iyesterday i suddenly got mills mess ith balls. its rather sad cause i've been juggling for 6ish years but i just couldn't get one throw(when the left hand goes back to the left from underneath) but i was siiting down with two hackiesacks practicing and i suddenly figured it out, then did it with three balls perfectly!

hoorah!


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Page: 12

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