Forums > Social Discussion > Testing the demand for a new poi separatist group
Login/Join to Participatemember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
Posted:
Hmmm, I think I might be the only member of this minority by now... just thought I'd see if there is still a group of weaving, butterflying nuts out there. I'm going to call this group of few or many:
the New Ideas for Circular Exploration alliance (NICE)
We at NICE, feel that simple weaves and butterflies are very nice and deserve to still be allowed to be considered innovative and fresh if explored well.
Seriously though, I LOVE them and I still don't feel I'm even half way through with them. Give me 20 more years, then I feel I'll -really- be weaving and butterflying.
I would love to hear from any like minded 'Applicants' and any nice ideas they may have. Please
Jo.
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109039586)
Hmmm, I think I might be the only member of this minority by now... just thought I'd see if there is still a group of weaving, butterflying nuts out there. I'm going to call this group of few or many:
the New Ideas for Circular Exploration alliance (NICE)
We at NICE, feel that simple weaves and butterflies are very nice and deserve to still be allowed to be considered innovative and fresh if explored well.
Seriously though, I LOVE them and I still don't feel I'm even half way through with them. Give me 20 more years, then I feel I'll -really- be weaving and butterflying.
I would love to hear from any like minded 'Applicants' and any nice ideas they may have. Please
Jo.
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109039586)
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
the video one text descriptions are like reading binary code without a video to explain what on earth is going on
the video one text descriptions are like reading binary code without a video to explain what on earth is going on
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
wow.
that i think may be the single most inaccurate statement i have ever seen pass your fingertips, o huggable josh.
in fact, since my (ahem) interesting arguement with some lovelies on the teching moves thread, i don't think i have disagreed so much with any one phrase written by anyone on this website.
poi IS faddish. it IS about social groupings. fashion DOES determine what
music you listen too while spinning
type of poi you spin
moves you learn
way you dance
who you go to for lessons
of all people, i would have thought that you would have seen that more than others because you've travelled so much.
at some point i'll become bored of hearing this, and responding like the AYM i am "but it is not this day"
i WILL admit that a large number of people sacrafice flow and grace for technical proficiency. However, does noone see that learning technically difficult manouvres does not preclude dancing like a motherfuccker? if not, then i will gracefully retire from debate, saddened by the state of HOP today.
R
Written by: Josh
There are no fashions in poi movement, there are no social groupings of poi movement - its all down to individual differences and rates of learning.
wow.
that i think may be the single most inaccurate statement i have ever seen pass your fingertips, o huggable josh.
in fact, since my (ahem) interesting arguement with some lovelies on the teching moves thread, i don't think i have disagreed so much with any one phrase written by anyone on this website.
poi IS faddish. it IS about social groupings. fashion DOES determine what
music you listen too while spinning
type of poi you spin
moves you learn
way you dance
who you go to for lessons
of all people, i would have thought that you would have seen that more than others because you've travelled so much.
Written by:
I'll go out on a limb here. It seems to me that for the last couple of years it has become increasingly popular to try to pull off the most jedi moves to the detriment of flow and grace (and spirit - but thats a difficult one to quantify). Im advocating a change in values, rather than in the actual moves being performed.
at some point i'll become bored of hearing this, and responding like the AYM i am
"but it is not this day"i WILL admit that a large number of people sacrafice flow and grace for technical proficiency. However, does noone see that learning technically difficult manouvres does not preclude dancing like a motherfuccker? if not, then i will gracefully retire from debate, saddened by the state of HOP today.
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
rob your naughty read it again 
josh just wrote it badly
the statement about no fashions in poi movement is josh paraphrasing what he thinks coles subtext is
i agree that learning technically difficult moves eventually leads to dance, i use to focus souly on learning hard tricks then i realised how much i suuuuucked (i think the day of greenmilk shooting my tribute) and ive since started playing with movement more which im finding is meshing with the tech stuff in revealing the true nature of the movements, i still suuck but just a little bit less one day ill get crack that whole movement nut
rob your naughty read it again Written by:
I like the way you think cole, but I've still got some reservations about your key subtext (and correct me if I've got this wrong); There are no fashions in poi movement, there are no social groupings of poi movement - its all down to individual differences and rates of learning.
I dont see how your theory explains the massive differences in style we see both geographically and over time
josh just wrote it badly
the statement about no fashions in poi movement is josh paraphrasing what he thinks coles subtext is i agree that learning technically difficult moves eventually leads to dance, i use to focus souly on learning hard tricks then i realised how much i suuuuucked (i think the day of greenmilk shooting my tribute) and ive since started playing with movement more which im finding is meshing with the tech stuff in revealing the true nature of the movements, i still suuck but just a little bit less one day ill get crack that whole movement nut
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
definately, i'm so in it for the cicles.
Down with socks too while we're at it. i can still be really challenc=gine - currently learning the 5bt bkwds btb weave & I keep smacking myself in the head!
i'm kind of against tricks the break the circle in anyway (although i let other people do them out of the kindness of my heart...) don't even really like stalls & stuff - they just look wrong!
definately, i'm so in it for the cicles.
Down with socks too while we're at it. i can still be really challenc=gine - currently learning the 5bt bkwds btb weave & I keep smacking myself in the head!
i'm kind of against tricks the break the circle in anyway (although i let other people do them out of the kindness of my heart...) don't even really like stalls & stuff - they just look wrong!
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
you sure? thats not how i read it, but i'll wait for josh to make it so.
espescially as thats not how i read coles post at all. and i'm surprised (greatly ) if thats what he meant. cole?
anyway. the most important thing to me in my post was part 2.
you sure? thats not how i read it, but i'll wait for josh to make it so.
espescially as thats not how i read coles post at all. and i'm surprised (greatly ) if thats what he meant. cole?
anyway. the most important thing to me in my post was part 2.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
Written by: ben-ja-men
i agree that learning technically difficult moves eventually leads to danceWritten by:
i dunno if that's true...people can certainly do both. but i have seen some really beautiful and talented spinning/dancing from people who only know very basic moves, and some complete rubbish from people who are supposed to be amazing.
you might be able to learn it, or you might be born with it (looooooooooong discussion there...) but i don't think that "learning technically difficult moves eventually leads to dance "I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
hehe i was .... the sentance after wouldnt make sense otherwise?
i agree with ur part 2 and then that little bit extra that even if you only do tech eventually tech can lead nowhere but dance and with a slightly larger vocab than without
hehe i was ....
the sentance after wouldnt make sense otherwise?i agree with ur part 2 and then that little bit extra that even if you only do tech eventually tech can lead nowhere but dance and with a slightly larger vocab than without
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
the key word there is eventually, imho if u do something long enough eventually it will reveal its true nature to you, it might take a day, a week, a year or longer but eventually it will.
also beauty being the horribly subjective thing that it is lies within the eye of the beholder so you know whatever floats your boat
Written by: Tao Star
i don't think that "learning technically difficult moves eventually leads to dance "
the key word there is eventually, imho if u do something long enough eventually it will reveal its true nature to you, it might take a day, a week, a year or longer but eventually it will.
also beauty being the horribly subjective thing that it is lies within the eye of the beholder so you know whatever floats your boat
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
Pooh-Bah
1,810 posts
Location: London
1,810 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Ohhh I want to be part of the gang too
Cole honey...come here
Bammy
xx
Ohhh I want to be part of the gang too
Cole honey...come here
Bammy
xx
A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.
I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
hey! i want a hug too!
disagreement No. 2:
i don't think in the slightest that tech stuff leads eventually(and yes, word noted) to dance. there are loads of tech spinners who i like for their tech, but are dull as [censored] if you like dance. and they've been doing it for ages.
R
hey! i want a hug too!
disagreement No. 2:
i don't think in the slightest that tech stuff leads eventually(and yes, word noted) to dance. there are loads of tech spinners who i like for their tech, but are dull as [censored] if you like dance. and they've been doing it for ages.
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
ah, no need to sound so official, just call me pOp (or eRic).
but more on topic: I would like to declare any of the BTB stuff to be techie crap too, a) because it's not the simple circle moves described in the first post, and b) because I'm really not good at them
Written by: Jo
Parliament, I am going further than to say ...
ah, no need to sound so official, just call me pOp (or eRic).
but more on topic: I would like to declare any of the BTB stuff to be techie crap too, a) because it's not the simple circle moves described in the first post, and b) because I'm really not good at them
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
i guess i feel that if i where to stick to tech and pursue it for everything that it has and to keep my feet both planted firmly on the ground i would be losing all the moves that require my feet to move. eventually i would master all the current moves that could be done with both feet planted. so unless i was to then stop learning the only direction would involve moving feet to open new doors which would open to the door to dance, over time as the moves become more solid so does the footwork (still very basic but none the less subconscious and solid) and eventually as more and more of the body gets fully engaged into the movements, dance will eventually be born.
if i practise any move enough i find its rythem so even if i do the movement without the prop it still looks cool because its a pollished, controlled and shaped movement, the more i play with the same move the more i understand it and make it your own.
*edit to replaces u's with i's tis weird how when i think what im writing in my head i write you instead of i when im talking about me
*
EDITED_BY: ben-ja-men (1109167765)
i guess i feel that if i where to stick to tech and pursue it for everything that it has and to keep my feet both planted firmly on the ground i would be losing all the moves that require my feet to move. eventually i would master all the current moves that could be done with both feet planted. so unless i was to then stop learning the only direction would involve moving feet to open new doors which would open to the door to dance, over time as the moves become more solid so does the footwork (still very basic but none the less subconscious and solid) and eventually as more and more of the body gets fully engaged into the movements, dance will eventually be born.
if i practise any move enough i find its rythem so even if i do the movement without the prop it still looks cool because its a pollished, controlled and shaped movement, the more i play with the same move the more i understand it and make it your own.
*edit to replaces u's with i's tis weird how when i think what im writing in my head i write you instead of i when im talking about me
*EDITED_BY: ben-ja-men (1109167765)
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i think my subtext was almost the opposite of that which is probably why rob got a bit confuzzled by josh's (dodgy) paraphrasing - subtexts are by their very nature quite vague though so its not really surprising
here we go again then...
as far as i have seen in my short time spinning poi, for each individual, there is a general cycle of 'learn tech, learn flow' but the duration of these phases are hugely influenced by the overall fads and fashions of the group of spinners in that area.
i think someone like josh started spinning when the general concencus was to play with the few moves you know and create from there.
i did the same - in my first 4 months with poi i learnt to play around with weaves and butterflies in my friend's garden.
it was all about learning to do everything all ways so that i could move when i felt like it and not have to worry about my control of the poi restricting that.
when i got seriously into spinning poi later that year in london, there were a lot of 'new' ideas floating around that were ripe to be explored - not in the 'this move looks great transitioning into this one' or ' if you turn all the way round with that move, you'll get a great effect' or 'that move looks loads better if i use longarm and crouch' but more in the 'if this is technically possible then we should be able to do this as well'.
i.e. i spent a lot of time standing still working out mechanics rather than learning those variations in all directions or with lots of style.
hence my focus has, for a large portion of the time that i've been spinning, been on 'tech' i.e. finding out what is possible and how it works rather than how can i make what i know look unique.
this lack of performance attitude did not mean that i did not have my own style, nor did i t mean that i could not flow or recognise and implement good transitions in my spinning.
it just meant that i chose not to dance around lots
as far as i am concerned, this was never a drawback for me - and if i'm wrong, lots of people lied to me for no reason...
to compensate for not bending my knees or jumping around and to ensure that what i was doing still looked good, i concentrated on three things when spinning for pleasure:
- clean planes
- clean timing
- definite body positions
imho, if you combine these three things well, your spinning will look good.
unless you plant your feet at the start of a spin and never move, turn, or step until the end of your spin, i consider that you were dancing.
compare ballet to popping and you'll see the contrast i'm trying to describe.
ballet is flowy, graceful and fluid whereas popping is strobed, syncopated and stop-start, but are they not both valid forms of dance?
they both rely on accentuated body positions, movements and transitions to create a visual impression, they just do it in very different ways.
and that's my opinion on dancing.
so, back on topic; i think the focus in many places right now is moving back to general aesthetics and flow.
i know that personally for me, although i'm playing with poi again, i have not learnt a new move in a long, long time and i am not playing in a community like i was when i was really into learning new ways to spin.
i am mainly experimenting with movesets again - transitions between and combinations of patterns that i haven't tried before.
but i sure as hell ain't trying to be more of a prancer
cole. x
bammy
Written by: Josh
There are no fashions in poi movement, there are no social groupings of poi movement - its all down to individual differences and rates of learning.
i think my subtext was almost the opposite of that which is probably why rob got a bit confuzzled by josh's (dodgy) paraphrasing - subtexts are by their very nature quite vague though so its not really surprising
here we go again then...
as far as i have seen in my short time spinning poi, for each individual, there is a general cycle of 'learn tech, learn flow' but the duration of these phases are hugely influenced by the overall fads and fashions of the group of spinners in that area.
i think someone like josh started spinning when the general concencus was to play with the few moves you know and create from there.
i did the same - in my first 4 months with poi i learnt to play around with weaves and butterflies in my friend's garden.
it was all about learning to do everything all ways so that i could move when i felt like it and not have to worry about my control of the poi restricting that.
when i got seriously into spinning poi later that year in london, there were a lot of 'new' ideas floating around that were ripe to be explored - not in the 'this move looks great transitioning into this one' or ' if you turn all the way round with that move, you'll get a great effect' or 'that move looks loads better if i use longarm and crouch' but more in the 'if this is technically possible then we should be able to do this as well'.
i.e. i spent a lot of time standing still working out mechanics rather than learning those variations in all directions or with lots of style.
hence my focus has, for a large portion of the time that i've been spinning, been on 'tech' i.e. finding out what is possible and how it works rather than how can i make what i know look unique.
this lack of performance attitude did not mean that i did not have my own style, nor did i t mean that i could not flow or recognise and implement good transitions in my spinning.
it just meant that i chose not to dance around lots
as far as i am concerned, this was never a drawback for me - and if i'm wrong, lots of people lied to me for no reason...
to compensate for not bending my knees or jumping around and to ensure that what i was doing still looked good, i concentrated on three things when spinning for pleasure:
- clean planes
- clean timing
- definite body positions
imho, if you combine these three things well, your spinning will look good.
unless you plant your feet at the start of a spin and never move, turn, or step until the end of your spin, i consider that you were dancing.
compare ballet to popping and you'll see the contrast i'm trying to describe.
ballet is flowy, graceful and fluid whereas popping is strobed, syncopated and stop-start, but are they not both valid forms of dance?
they both rely on accentuated body positions, movements and transitions to create a visual impression, they just do it in very different ways.
and that's my opinion on dancing.
so, back on topic; i think the focus in many places right now is moving back to general aesthetics and flow.
i know that personally for me, although i'm playing with poi again, i have not learnt a new move in a long, long time and i am not playing in a community like i was when i was really into learning new ways to spin.
i am mainly experimenting with movesets again - transitions between and combinations of patterns that i haven't tried before.
but i sure as hell ain't trying to be more of a prancer
cole. x
bammy "i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
awwww, is greenkitty feeling all left out...?
there ya go!
cole. x
Written by: bluecat
hey! i want a hug too!
awwww, is greenkitty feeling all left out...?
there ya go!cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
member
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
Posted:
Rob mate, I honestly don't think anyone has said that. Just that it can if you ONLY focus on it (like you have said too really )
Technical progression I feel is no longer the 'Balance' or 'variation' necessity that was once required.
Threads like these are now the balance / variation that is badly needed.
I've seen so much 'circle bashing' over the last years from several offshot communities (this is no attack on any individual/group/hardcore - just an observation) and this can never be a good thing.
Jo.
What I have read at times might as well have read as "If you do more than 1 rep of a weave, then I'm more creative than you!"
Crap like that tends to only come from mis-informed newbies - but they are our future and they need to know there are other ways to progress.
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109174050)
Written by: bluecat
i WILL admit that a large number of people sacrafice flow and grace for technical proficiency. However, does noone see that learning technically difficult manouvres does not preclude dancing like a motherfuccker? if not, then i will gracefully retire from debate, saddened by the state of HOP today.
Rob mate, I honestly don't think anyone has said that. Just that it can if you ONLY focus on it (like you have said too really
)Technical progression I feel is no longer the 'Balance' or 'variation' necessity that was once required.
Threads like these are now the balance / variation that is badly needed.
I've seen so much 'circle bashing' over the last years from several offshot communities (this is no attack on any individual/group/hardcore - just an observation) and this can never be a good thing.
Jo.
What I have read at times might as well have read as "If you do more than 1 rep of a weave, then I'm more creative than you!"
Crap like that tends to only come from mis-informed newbies - but they are our future and they need to know there are other ways to progress.
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109174050)
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Dance
Dance
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
2nd.
best.
post.
ever.
Written by: Glåss
Dance
2nd.
best.
post.
ever.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
Ponce
its more fun, and people laugh more.
(minor disclaimer... that was an order to tell you to ponce, not calling either of you ponces)
Ponce
its more fun, and people laugh more.
(minor disclaimer... that was an order to tell you to ponce, not calling either of you ponces)
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
member
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
Posted:
Shhhhh!...
My 'Ponce dictionary' is coming soon, Rob.
Don't want to break it this soon - too technical
Dance - here here Glass, long time mate. Hope you're well.
Jo.
Shhhhh!...
My 'Ponce dictionary' is coming soon, Rob.
Don't want to break it this soon - too technical
Dance - here here
Glass, long time mate. Hope you're well.Jo.
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
A lot of this discussion reminds me of similar conversations I've taken part in about different movements in the poetry and music (as in western art music or "classical" music, as opposed to pop or other kinds of music) worlds. Camps seem to form around the ideas of "expression" that is style, flow, melody and rhythm versus technique and theory. The technique and theory folks in both the poetry and music realms tend towards the avant-garde edge and produce work that is more often than not what lay-people think of when they say such things as "I hate poetry I don't get it!" or they're listening to some atonal opus by some highly studied composer at a conservatory somewhere and just wishing, praying, that a melody will appear. The key difference for me is that the uber-technical works are expressions of theory, whereas the more flowy, melodic, lyrical works are expressions of spirit. Likewise with spinning.
The parallels aren't exact, of course, but it seems a similar dichotomy is forming between the "tech" and "flow" camps with regards to spinning. Could it be that such schisms are natural processes in the arts? To my mind, neither extreme is necessarily 100% "correct" but both are useful in exploring what the full range of possibilities are. And perhaps it's most useful to take a bit from here and a bit from there and see what comes up.
Am I being a naive newbie? Hmmm....perhaps, but while I'm new to spinning, I've been around the block in the poetry and music worlds and I do think the way technical/stylistic approaches form these schisms in those realms is applicable here. Interesting to see actually.
A lot of this discussion reminds me of similar conversations I've taken part in about different movements in the poetry and music (as in western art music or "classical" music, as opposed to pop or other kinds of music) worlds. Camps seem to form around the ideas of "expression" that is style, flow, melody and rhythm versus technique and theory. The technique and theory folks in both the poetry and music realms tend towards the avant-garde edge and produce work that is more often than not what lay-people think of when they say such things as "I hate poetry I don't get it!" or they're listening to some atonal opus by some highly studied composer at a conservatory somewhere and just wishing, praying, that a melody will appear. The key difference for me is that the uber-technical works are expressions of theory, whereas the more flowy, melodic, lyrical works are expressions of spirit. Likewise with spinning.
The parallels aren't exact, of course, but it seems a similar dichotomy is forming between the "tech" and "flow" camps with regards to spinning. Could it be that such schisms are natural processes in the arts? To my mind, neither extreme is necessarily 100% "correct" but both are useful in exploring what the full range of possibilities are. And perhaps it's most useful to take a bit from here and a bit from there and see what comes up.
Am I being a naive newbie? Hmmm....perhaps, but while I'm new to spinning, I've been around the block in the poetry and music worlds and I do think the way technical/stylistic approaches form these schisms in those realms is applicable here. Interesting to see actually.
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
member
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England
Posted:
Blueboy thanks that analogy has helped me understand what's been going on a whole lot.
Jo.
Blueboy thanks that analogy has helped me understand what's been going on a whole lot.
Jo.
Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
What about those Beethovens and Mozarts of spinning... guys who combine superb technique with a wonderful flowing mastery and expression of their art?
They make a living from poi, don't they?
What about those Beethovens and Mozarts of spinning... guys who combine superb technique with a wonderful flowing mastery and expression of their art?
They make a living from poi, don't they?
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
no bluecat! I was badly expressing a misrepresentation of cole's idea.
Sorry Cole.
and Blue - absolutely ppl can dance and still be technical! If you read my first post you would see that I wasnt by any means suggesting dropping the avant garde techy stuff, just that the values which have been applied for the past few years (especially in the UK) have encouraged tech over flow - and produced a bunch of newbies that are wanting to learn btb loops before they can reliably pull off a standard 3 beat, which obviously sacrifices a bunch of factors which were a lot more prevalent in spinning 3-5 years ago.
There is also I guess another perspective that could explain it... jugglers generally would not be interested in poi unless it involved nifty moves, so generally the people twirling 3-5+ years ago were dancers, but the emergence of the more techy side of poi / twirling attracted a juggler mindset with a different set of values.
I hope no-one is offended by what I say, I really am not begrudging the innovations of the uber techy, nor am I wishing for twirling to go back to the way it was in the good old days (as if I'd know?). When I think about the ppl who I know who were teaching and innovating and inventing this stuff, all of them flow beautifully. I wont embarass by naming them, but I think most of them would know who I am talking about - and alot arent on HOP
However, these innovators were able to draw on the twirling value systems that were available at the time, while creating more of their own. The generations of poi ppl that have come through subsequently seem to have taken on 'only' the innovate / create / make it harder and more obscure value without seeing the other values attention to detail / refine infinitely / spirit / etc.
With Renaissance, we arent suggesting going back or a reliving of past times, but rather an artistic revival in the present day, incorporating the rich structures we have now.
Josh
EDITED_BY: Josh (1109204733)
no bluecat! I was badly expressing a misrepresentation of cole's idea.
Sorry Cole.
and Blue - absolutely ppl can dance and still be technical! If you read my first post you would see that I wasnt by any means suggesting dropping the avant garde techy stuff, just that the values which have been applied for the past few years (especially in the UK) have encouraged tech over flow - and produced a bunch of newbies that are wanting to learn btb loops before they can reliably pull off a standard 3 beat, which obviously sacrifices a bunch of factors which were a lot more prevalent in spinning 3-5 years ago.
There is also I guess another perspective that could explain it... jugglers generally would not be interested in poi unless it involved nifty moves, so generally the people twirling 3-5+ years ago were dancers, but the emergence of the more techy side of poi / twirling attracted a juggler mindset with a different set of values.
I hope no-one is offended by what I say, I really am not begrudging the innovations of the uber techy, nor am I wishing for twirling to go back to the way it was in the good old days (as if I'd know?
). When I think about the ppl who I know who were teaching and innovating and inventing this stuff, all of them flow beautifully. I wont embarass by naming them, but I think most of them would know who I am talking about - and alot arent on HOP However, these innovators were able to draw on the twirling value systems that were available at the time, while creating more of their own. The generations of poi ppl that have come through subsequently seem to have taken on 'only' the innovate / create / make it harder and more obscure value without seeing the other values attention to detail / refine infinitely / spirit / etc.
With Renaissance, we arent suggesting going back or a reliving of past times, but rather an artistic revival in the present day, incorporating the rich structures we have now.
Josh
EDITED_BY: Josh (1109204733)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Can I start a new group that specializes in wacking oneself in the testicles?
The ITMG group (Innovations in Trauma to Male Gonads)
Can I start a new group that specializes in wacking oneself in the testicles?
The ITMG group (Innovations in Trauma to Male Gonads)
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
Well, for instance, I want to show you poi people that you can wrap a lot and still "flow".
That's what I'm working on.
I'd join the ITMG group but I actually haven't crotch shot myself hard yet...
Well, for instance, I want to show you poi people that you can wrap a lot and still "flow".
That's what I'm working on.
I'd join the ITMG group but I actually haven't crotch shot myself hard yet...
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
Cole, this is the post that threw me sooo much. I dont see anywhere in it that shows that you considered social learning aspects. This post is extremely oriented to the individual learning aspects. topped off with;
can you see how I could have concluded from this that you thought there were no significant social learning factors at play here?
I agree with what you have said in this post btw - consolidation periods are often mistaken for plateaus in skill. Cycles are present on the personal level, and perhaps on the society level too. However I dont agree that this is the overriding factor at play at the social level.
I also disagree with your definition of techy;
For me someone is spinning techy when their set demonstrates that they value moves that are difficult over moves they can do extremely well. For me, Its about the intent behind it. Ive seen ppl who are what I would consider hardcore spinners twirling sets with loads of jedi moves, but are still demonstrating an overriding committment to flow / grace / etc.
Josh
Cole, this is the post that threw me sooo much. I dont see anywhere in it that shows that you considered social learning aspects. This post is extremely oriented to the individual learning aspects. topped off with;
Written by:
this is no renaissance - its simply people learning to spin.
can you see how I could have concluded from this that you thought there were no significant social learning factors at play here?
I agree with what you have said in this post btw - consolidation periods are often mistaken for plateaus in skill. Cycles are present on the personal level, and perhaps on the society level too. However I dont agree that this is the overriding factor at play at the social level.
I also disagree with your definition of techy;
Written by:
(the main denominator of 'tech' being "i don't incorpoate this move smoothly into my dance yet")
For me someone is spinning techy when their set demonstrates that they value moves that are difficult over moves they can do extremely well. For me, Its about the intent behind it. Ive seen ppl who are what I would consider hardcore spinners twirling sets with loads of jedi moves, but are still demonstrating an overriding committment to flow / grace / etc.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
*reads through thread again*
sheesh. I should just shut up and go do some poi. its a beautiful day here. I wish all you guys could come over and have a poi party. Youre all invited! shall I make tea? or would cold beer be better?
Josh
*reads through thread again*
sheesh. I should just shut up and go do some poi. its a beautiful day here. I wish all you guys could come over and have a poi party. Youre all invited! shall I make tea? or would cold beer be better?
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
Hey Kael: I too am working on wraps -- and they totally flow!! I'm a little obsessed with combining handwraps and flowers at the moment. But your comment points out how this is a false dichotomy -- flow or tech. It needn't be either/or.
Written by: KaelGotRice
Well, for instance, I want to show you poi people that you can wrap a lot and still "flow".
That's what I'm working on.
Hey Kael: I too am working on wraps -- and they totally flow!! I'm a little obsessed with combining handwraps and flowers at the moment. But your comment points out how this is a false dichotomy -- flow or tech. It needn't be either/or.
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
and Josh, I vote for beer!
Edit: I'm guessing your comments above directed to "Blue" were referring to Bluecat, and not me, Blueboy?
EDITED_BY: blueboy (1109200016)
and Josh, I vote for beer!
Edit: I'm guessing your comments above directed to "Blue" were referring to Bluecat, and not me, Blueboy?
EDITED_BY: blueboy (1109200016)
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
ooh, ooh!!! can I be president, my credentials will show you I have enough experience in that field...
Written by: ...Lightning...
Can I start a new group that specializes in wacking oneself in the testicles?
The ITMG group (Innovations in Trauma to Male Gonads)
ooh, ooh!!! can I be president, my credentials will show you I have enough experience in that field... eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
Similar Topics
Using the keywords [testing demand new poi separatist group] we found the following existing topics.
Show more..
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com