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the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Since my accident I have decided to fight the overwhelming temptation to fire breathe again (believe it or not, I still want to) and not do it for responsibility sake.
(Side note: For those who think there are "safer" fuels. I asked the doctor and if I had've inhaled cooking oils, biodiesel,...I still would've ended up on a ventilator in the hospital, I was told. There is no safe fuel!)

However, I still have every intention of spinning. This has sparked quite the debate here.

PWB doesn't approve because of the small graze burns (the ones that disappear in a couple days). He feels it is all unsafe and wants me to have nothing to do with fire at all anymore. This even has the possibility of effecting our personal relationship. I understand it is because he loves me so much and doesn't want to see me get hurt.

My family doesn't want me spinning at all. Not even comets and LED's.

Other friends want me to go back to all of it as soon as possible thinking I will develop some sort of fire phobia the longer I am away from it (not a chance).

Now it will be months before I can really spin effectively again, since I need to build my lungs back up. I have my mind made up that I will spin, since it is something I love to do so much. I just feel kind of caught in the middle with this all and am terrified to lose those I love because they are more afraid of the fire than I am.

I don't know what the point is to this except that I know you would all understand.
Love and Brightness to all.....

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Location: Houston TX
Member Since: 31st Aug 2002
Total posts: 10
Posted:sweetheart, the key is to not inhale, but i'm sure you don't need me to tell you that. Moving on, i think only you can decide whether to go on or not. I don't see any harm in twirling even if you you still want to twirl fire...you know you're personal limits and how far to push yourself. if you have a family, children of your own mainly, i would probably not try fire eating/breathing again-seeing as it is not safe, and i'm sure you want to grow old with them...but if you don't have dependants...i'd try again- read Mephistos Fire breathing page...i don't have the exact url....but keyword search should do it.
Blessed Be

@}---'---,--- SickINfinity


the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Sickinfinity..my accident happened on a wind shift..I did everything exactly how I have been doing it for three successful years fire breathing, but thanks for the advise. Mephisto's site is good but lacking in several key points in my eyes. It is a good beginning research point though.

I am going to spin. I do have a son. My issue is more feeling like the rope in a tug of war than anything. That and the fact that I don't think that I should lose friends/loved ones over something I love to do. It makes no sense to me.

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hey sweetie,

When you say "your family" is scared I'm not sure who you're referring to. ABSOLUTELY no offense to PWB or parents or any other adults involved but it is YOUR life. If memory serves, and I hope I'm not getting to personal, but doesn't PWB have a dangerous hobby as well involving fast moving vehicles and such?

ON THE OTHER HAND... Are we're talking about your little boy crying and screaming "Mommie, please don't go, I don't want you do die!" and you shrugging and saying "but mommie likes to play with fire". And going off to work.

I never thought, nor will ever think that fire breathing is safe or sane. As for spinning, I think you can get seriously hurt as well, but have much less risk of actually dying.

I guess this is a choice that every firefighter/police officer family makes as well. Family members wait up worried, etc. The only difference is when one of those people is hurt on the job, the family is taken care of.

I like fire but am not the pyro that most of y'all are so it's tough for me to imagine the passion that some of you have for it. I could easily give up fire as I've got a billion other hobbies that I love doing. But that's just me.

This post has less of a direction or point than most of my others but I guess that's because I don't really understand the circumstances or feelings involved. I could never do what you do so I guess I'm biased. But it's because I value stability far too much and could never be a performer as a means of living, which is purely a personal preference, not a value decision.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US
Member Since: 24th Jul 2002
Total posts: 1438
Posted:darling Lynne,

you know people, in their human wisdom, react far in the opposite direction, especially for a while. you also know there are always more than 2 directions, but we mean the opposite in this case. . . for a while. fortunately, they mainly get over it, or whoever's ready first may sometimes show them every other position around those poles.

you'll incorporate what you've learned yourself, even what feels scattered for a time, while you startled yourself. and you'll always be doing something warm & exciting & playful, and kindling those treasures in others.

& firebreathing's certainly something else around the poles of a staff pole.

oh, & Noah's mom's amazin because she gives both protection & shows him how to live life con muchissimo gusto, carnal. i love life with a passion, but i rarely used to think life safe or sane. Brigid's fire to ya!

~ Mike

[ 31 August 2002, 07:19: Message edited by: FireMike ]

molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US


Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:It's probably worth digging up that thread from a while ago about what you would do if a loved one asked you to stop spinning.

Fear is a powerful and restricting emotion and seems to be a prime motivator behind the request those close to you are pushing upon you. If you live your life controlled by fear you will never realise your full potential or achieve anything new in life. It closes the mind and stills life until it is stagnant and wasted.

For some it's a natural reaction to run from anything that might cause harm. Those around you have to recover from their fear and let you live your life as you choose. They have to know there's some risks, but they're not that high.

Thousands of people on this board spin fire regularly and few have ever had any serious injuries. Firebreathing is another thing, but spinning is pretty safe. Cycling down the street is far more dangerous (or maybe that's just because I live in London!).

Fire breathing is another matter, and it's each person's personal decision whether to do it or not, and PWB and your family should respect your decision. I'd be interested to know if you asked your doctor about alcohol as a fuel as from what I understand of hydrocarbon pneumonia something like alcohol would be absorbed through the lung as opposed to triggering a macrophage reaction.

So be positive and if other people want to play tug of war with you and control you don't let them.

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Pele, you have made up your mind on what your going to do. We cant nor should we or anyone else try to change your mind on anything. Our opinions dont matter dear.

Do what you want to do.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Pele I wish i could help you but in the end i think the descision is going to come from your heart- as well it should! You will know in the end what is right for you and don't do anything that would hurt you (mentally) just for someone else's sake. Don't not listen to their points, but in the end the descision is all yours. I think you already know all this tho.

I also had a question, as i saw ur comment about "there are no safe fuels." One of course was Dom's question baout the alcohol, the other was weather something such as hydrogen peroxide would also cause such bad reactions (or something similar) or wether it was safer (perhaps significantly?)

thank so much pele for all your inspiration, i hope the healing process winds up going well for you!

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Hi Pele,

Kyrian is right, the decision ultimately has to be yours. Both ways there are ways of handling the responses of people around you. If you decide not to twirl, you can explain to your friends why. If they are true friends, they will understand and stay your friends.

If you decide to twirl, you can explain to your family & PWB why. And although they may be upset, they will not stop loving you. PWB will not stop loving you, even if you go through a rough patch.

Removing the emotional consequences, makes it easier for you to decide what you want from the situation. It is like making a decision with a safety net.

The only one that is difficult to remove, as NYC said, is Noah's response. Because he relies on you, & is not a growed up yet, whilst he will not stop loving you there may be consequences there from your decision. If you don't twirl, he may become fearful for himself in future situations, if you do twirl, he may become fearful for you. Only you know him well enough to know what his responses will be.

Whatever you decide, you have my respect. You are a careful, thoughtful twirler, who I have never known to take unnecessary risks or take an irresponsible approach to fire.

Take care & be loved...


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Noah is fine with it. He was there when the accident happened so he knows it was from fire breathing. He told me to not do that again. His wish is my command. When I asked him if I could do fire poi he shrugged and said "Sure". I explained that I would be extra safe and such and he was alright with it. I also reassured him that if he has any fears he needs to come and talk with me about it, and he will...he usually does. I have always believed in keeping him informed and included, and I believe in talking with him not at him. He is the most important thing in my life, and he is a magnificent person with thoughts and opinions of his own. He may not always be on the right track with them, but he is only 7 so his perception is a bit different and that is what I am here for.

Like I said, I am going to spin again. It's this tug of war feeling I need to get rid of.

And actually Rozi, it is because of the love that I stand to lose them. They don't want to see me even potentially get hurt by the fire.

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Fire By Riz tm
Location: tampa fl usa
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 212
Glad to see you are back. i understand your problem i have had to give up things in my life i really loved because of injurys or it just wasnt worth the risk anylonger..i am sure this experince has given you alot of insight into a lot things in your life and if your like me made you think just how important is it ..and has as much as it sucks your were it hurt it reinforces my idea of no matter how good you are shit still happens..i am sure in the future you will be able to share what has happned and help others

I like to view my self as a gambler who stacks as many odds in his favor as possiable.. and i bring that mindset into fire.. when people were asking me to do or learn fire breathing i went out in search of odds kind of putting it to the wisdom of the ages(older experinced fire breathers)problem was i couldnt find many
some were dead most had given it up due tp the risks burns and chemical posining or just the havek it plays on your body..I heard the same thing over and over dont get into it ..
i hope you dont set it all down and .but i can damn sure understand if you did. and the worry the ones close to you have about fire..
all i can say that has worked for me is be true to your own heart

I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Pele, you have to follow your heart on this one. I think that you're fine spinning fire. So what if you get a little graze burn doing it? That's what skin is for! It's to protect you! You can't possibly live a risk-free life, and while you shouldn't take stupid risks (and you don't), I don't understand people who are so afraid of dying that they stop living! Thank heavens you aren't one of those people! That's one of the things that makes you so cool!

Now, if you decide that you don't want to breathe fire again, that makes perfect sense. However, I'd really like to see the doctor back up his statement that vegetable oil isn't "safe." I'm not saying I don't believe him, but I am saying that I doubt he has any experience in the matter. I know I sure don't. But I did try to find articles on chemical pneumonia caused by vegetable oils and I couldn't find any.

I wish he would write a case report on what happened to you. It can only help the field.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Location: Brisbane QLD Australia
Member Since: 29th Nov 2001
Total posts: 121
Posted:Life is ours to be spent, not to be saved.
--D.H. Lawrence

If you enjoy spinning and want to keep it up then go for it. If others cannot respect that then the are being single minded. Spinning I really do not believe is anything as dangerous as it looks.

Simply an excuse to play with fire.


Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:There is a vast difference between fire breathing, and fire twirling. I am suprised your family arent already aware of this due to the fact that you have been doing both for sometime. Or perhaps they are, and just want you away from all things ignitable from now on. Either way, it comes down to TWO people. Your son, and You.

Noah doesnt seem to have a problem with your fwirling, and you have already expressed the desire to do so, and have already made up your mind that you will be. I can understand that your family dont appreciate it the way you do, but honey, you are an adult. And its your life. And if they come to see you perform, or practice, then they will realise that its not anywhere near as dangerous as 'breathing'.

I would suggest tho, start slow, use your practice poi and LED's and streamer poi as much as possible. Go gently, and so bring the idea back to your family gently as well, You will find much less resistance this way!

Much love, and hugglz, and sooty fingers (when the time comes!)

Currently on the right side up of the world.

Whiffle Squeek
Whiffle Squeek

Location: Hartford, CT USA
Member Since: 29th Oct 2001
Total posts: 416
Posted:wish i could say something that hasnt been already said, but i think im a bit late for that...

best of luck to you, and im glad to hear youre recovering well...

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Location: the world at large (mainly UK)
Member Since: 27th Jun 2002
Total posts: 60
Posted:you have obviously made up your mind, but just to say something to help your argument.
there is little harm in the fire that you twerl. the only thing that really gets hot are the screws as the fuel burns not the wick and so the heat leaves with the fuel, hitting yourself with the fire then leaves a black mark from carbon and not much more. the scews can leave a slight burn but nothing that is worse than a carpet burn!
if you use Kero which will not light on a flate surface and burns at a lower temp than other fuels this also helps. short hair or wet hair limets that problem and actually not waring cloths that are bagy stopps things getting caught up. warring jeans which have no holes or lose strands also protect the body. all these things i know from personal experiance. you probably know them all to but it will help if you don't for when you restart.
good luck, and never stop doing what you want to do because of the past, life as you now relise is for living and that is what you want to do. fear is good because life tasts sweeter when you face it, just do it as safely as possible!

What you don't know won't hurt you? well i intend to get to know as much as possible so that i can make sure no one else has to so they carn't get hurt.

Location: Bath, UK
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 17
Posted:Interesting thread.

I've got two friends who hurt themselves quite badly, one in a climbing accident and one in a motorbike accident. Both have had serious amounts of metal in their legs. Both accidents can be considered that - not as a result of their own negligence or lack of ability. Both are back doing climbing / motorbiking. It's what they do, it makes them what they are.

Glad to hear you are planning to continue doing fire Pele.


Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Hi princess !
interesting conversation, I knew you'd come up with this one, sorry to hear it is putting tensins in your personal life though .

anyway ... I do agree with everyone on the subject.

I confess that I am releived to hear that you'll never fire breathe again, sister, I really am because I was so worried about you.
about fire spinning , yes it is your decision.
and yes, the fume are bad for the ulungs too ... do you think you could incorporate in your new costumes something to cover and protect you nose and mouth to not inhale so much maybe ? mike a mask or something ? just an idea...

and on a more personal note, I miss you and your mails and would love to hear fom you. also would like to know of a phone number / address where i could reach you. love you and miss you much

shine on

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Location: U.K. / Holland
Member Since: 6th Aug 2002
Total posts: 49
Posted:Hi Pele,
heard your name and the stuff about your accident around here, you are probaly one of the most famous on HOP! Feel privilaged (*blushes*) and lucky to be able to leave you a posting considering your accident!!!

Do you want my view on what to do...hmmmmm, I wonder after you have had sooo much advice thrown at you already! ...and who am I to give it?????

Im not going to leave you with my opinon, just with my well wishes for whatever you decide in the future, you have my upmost respect as a performer and only you can live your life!

Again, respect to you!


Distorted sex drive in space was already known to be a sticky knoblem - BRASS EYE


the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions.

Cassandra, I am working on that email

MMFB, just because you don't really know me doesn't mean I couldn't use your opinion as well. All thoughts are welcome. Just remember, I am only human!

For the record, I have actually decided to move out of Batavia and away from my parents. They are very overpowering and I think it is time for a change!

Love and gratitude to all!

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Rick aka Loki
Rick aka Loki

Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 18th Dec 2000
Total posts: 134
Posted:My take on it is this:

Pele, you've said how grateful you are, since the accident, for even the most basic of blessings like the ability to breathe or the strength to walk.


Why are these things so wonderful? For me, the answer is wrapped up in the things I love, the incredible, often life-expanding joy I get from the ways I use those blessings.

Your family and friends don't need to understand why you would want to spin or do any of your previous activities again. Most of them probably can't unless they love fire arts the way you do. What they need to understand, what they MUST try to understand if they love you, is that there are things which are so important to you, so central to who you are, that they are worth the risk those same things involve. They must recognize that there are things you do that when you're doing them you are more alive, that being without these things you will shrink, Pele will recede, Lynne will recede. Your family must accept that they will probably never understand your relationship with fire, not because it is inexplicable (obviously, the support you've got here on HOP proves that there are those of us who understand), but because they don't share it.

You are who you and your experiences have made you. Life is now offering you a choice, and a challenge. You can become someone else, equally special, equally spectacular, but without fire arts, without Pele, or you can heal from this injury and climb back up to the top and keep going, keep expanding.

I think you need to understand that they're worried about you out of love, and because they don't understand the technical side of the risks you take. Love them back, reassure them, but don't let them be selfish either. If they're going to love you, they need to love YOU and want you to be happy and complete. Anything less is asking a sacrifice from you (which, of course, is yours to make, but not theirs to take).

All of the above, of course, applies to family and friends except for your son. His love is different, his need is different. To have a child is to be willing to spend the rest of your life as more than one person. Anyone unwilling to accept this condition, in my opinion, isn't ready to be a parent (I know I'm not). From what I know of you, and from your "his wish is my command" statement, you understand this already. (I read a nice quote once that said "To become a parent is to be willing to spend the rest of your life with your heart on the outside of your body").

So to sum up, fire goddess, are you going to spend your newly won abilities sitting on your arse, doing other activities, or getting back in the dance?

lots of love and fresh fruit,

-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp

Mean not nice guy, that is friendly
Location: Nowhere,Anywere/the middle of ...
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2002
Total posts: 92
Posted:hmm......sayz here that you are "complexed"
well more or less.......anywhoo 'Theyz is right'
your pain and your gain it is for you to decide.
Let's see yo' family don't like it. and your friends say go.......hmm, tuff choice, tff choice well i don't think i'm going to sayz anyfing of importence, but.
Live the life of your choice.

Q: do you like what you do...........
enough to have the chance of that awful thing happening again?
Q: do think you can handle it again for the thing you love?
It is a 50/50 Q.
Have no fear, I is here.