J-Me


Member
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Total posts: 2
Posted:greetings ... I'm a physiotherapy student/poi twirler inquiring into Poi related injuries - you know like shoulders and wrists that hurt after spinning too much. Any descriptions of yer injuries will be helpful in my research. My intention is to design a program specifically for Poi to help existing injuries heal and prevent further ones ... yer feedback is appreciated wooooosh J-Me

Yer imagination is yer preview of Life's comnig attractions

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:Burns, burns and more burns...ubblol

I find my back hurts a bit sometimes after spinning for a while with my heavier equipment as well...(might have something to do with some of the moves I do and the fact that I already have a bad back).


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ataxia
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

ataxia

member
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 172
Posted:I often get blisters on the first two fingers of both hands. (Takes a good 2 hours of spinning though)

Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1858
Posted:I would have thought there are many other factors to think about before you can get an idea of what a typical injury/strain might be.

I work in an office using computers all day so my upper body doesnt get much of a work out. I do find my upper arms get a bit week after more than 20 minutes spinning Poi (10 minutes with staff), particularly when Im learning a new move as I tend to exaggerate my movements more.

Contact juggling helps my wrists a lot (Ive broken them in the past and otherwise messed them up), but Im sure Poi does in a less noticeable way.

Itd be interesting to see the final outcome


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:I had to quit spinning staff because it really agrivated the burcitis (sp?) in my shoulders (took about 6 months to do so, but after it only takes a little bit -maybe 10 minutes - of Staff Spinning to make my shoulder joint ache for a day or two), but Poi does not do this. I also find Poi helped solve the carpel tunnel thing and has actually imroved my should problems too. I do strain my back a bit from it, but that is because I do very deep back bends whilst poiing.

I have a friend in austin who had to quit Poi because it wrecked her wrists - she went exclusively to staff because of that, in contrast to my story.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Gri-gri


Gri-gri

Member
Location: Richardsbay, South Africa

Total posts: 84
Posted:I think it also depends on how you spin and what kind of general flexibility you have...

I change my style a lot during my routine and I've noticed that one of the primary things to change is the way I move my wrists. (flexible/rigid etc...) I would imagine that if you were to maintain rigidity throughout, it would affect your wrists in the short term, but if they remain flexible, it may affect them in the long run.

But please let us know your findings. Sounds very interesting


Where the mind goes,
The body will follow...

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:i injured my shoulder spinng staff and Double Staff last week. we were spinning pretty much non stop for four hours. Im like that, as long as there is fuel i will keep going.

my shoulder is still killing me. feels like its right inside my shoulder too. feels more like the pain you suffer from a really hard workout though. i used to get very stiff after martial arts training and it feels like something simliar. I dont think i pulled anything, rather i think i overworked it. With any luck it will be better by saturday. *fingers crossed*

feel free ot pm me or something if you think i might be able to give you more details.

maybe you could suggest some excersices that might help out spinners on a general level?


Love is the law.

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:yup - that shoulder pain you describe is called bursidis (no idea how to spell it) and it basically comes from an inflamed shoulder joint - rest it till it feels better, then take it easy for while before going back to your four hour stints.

baseball players also get this in their shoulders (where I orginally developed the problem), and tennis players get it in their elbows (tennis elbow). It is a form of repetitve stress injury basically. I'm sure our thread intiator can say more about it and correct me where I am not entirely accurate...


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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mtbeer
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

mtbeer

ARRRR!
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 529
Posted:Welcome to HoP J-Me

I had the same shoulder injury not too long ago. Every time I would start spinning it would flare up. This went on for about two weeks before I decided to give it a rest. After five days of laying off the Poi, the pain was gone and hasn't come back.

I used to get blisters all the time from heavy nylon finger loops but switching to leather loops fixed that immediately.


"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok

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squarefish
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
Location: the state of flux, Ireland

Total posts: 403
Posted:Word,
I had really bad rotator cuff injury from getting smacked off my bycicle by a car, and I found that lots of Poi really helped!
Much easier to stick with than the excersizes that the physio perscribed, and now I have more flexibilty in my shoulders than before the accident ;-)


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Amanita
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

member
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada

Total posts: 157
Posted:I used to get debilitating headaches/neck pain, caused in part no doubt by my large chest. I still get this since I took up Poi, but not nearly as much. At first, I used to get really sore after spinning, but I'm much better now, especially since I got the hang of the overhead moves, like chasing the sun, overhead and alternating butterfly, and so on. It's like I'm working and stretching muscles that weren't getting enough of that before.

It's almost like my crane training- the first couple of days of seat time with an actual crane left me tied up stiffer than I could remember being in a long time..But once I got used to hauling on those levers, things got so much better, and eventually I was craning happy and pain-free. Believe me, in the words of my crane instructor, some of those mobile cranes need to be run like you hate them- the levers really need to be yanked and hauled on. But Tower cranes are a different beast- nice little joysticks that you "kiss and caress".

Poi and craning have something in common- they tend to work muscles that may normally be underused, but after some initial pain, you get used to it, and perhaps end up even better than you were.

Tower operators have been known to get bad backs, though. I will need to work at protecting myself from this!


"Do not meddle in the affairs of Tower Cranes, for you are soft and would look better when squashed by a full concrete bucket"

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J-Me


Member
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Total posts: 2
Posted:with any repetetive motions, the forces will be transmitted throughout the body and the weakest link in the chain will be exploited. weak links could be due to muscles imbalance (tight, short, weak, or uncoordinated), anatomical malalignment, previous injury and so on ... it seems from the feedback that spinning has triggered injuries but also in some cases helped reduce people's pain. I reckon Poi could be a sweet therapy for some people! some general advice that will work for all people :

before you get into heavy spinning on a given day WARM UP yer body!! dance, swing yer arms around, jump - anything to warm yer core temperature up just a bit. warm joints are less likely to become sore joints! after spinning lightly for a few minutes, pause and stretch out yer arm, back and chest muscles. specific exercises to increase stability in the shoulder are important but too complicated to explain here. if you feel a sore spot after spinning it's likely due to inflamation from the repetetive stress. make ICE is yer friend for the next 20 minutes!

I will be working with a guy who owns a Poi studio to develop a specific warm up for Poi spinning. may be done in a few months time and I'll convey the info on to everyone whenever I have it. In the mean time keep the injury stories coming as it will help me to get a better sense of what people need.

safe spinning All

J-Me


Yer imagination is yer preview of Life's comnig attractions

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I've got to report that after two years of spending way to much time spinning both Poi and staff,,,,zero injuries. Well, other than the typical impact injuries that is. I do warm up before every session first with one Poi, which gives me opportunity to not only think about my planes,, but to explore the full range of motion in my arms and shoulders.

Next, I'll switch to a staff for a few minutes, spinning very slowly and concentrating on developing a more stable stance. This helps loosen up my back and legs and I'm hoping it's going to improve my balance at the same time. Then it's on to two Poi, same attention paid to stance and balance and this is where I've actually found a use for the reverse five beat weave, it's excellent for loosening up the wrists.

But if something starts to hurt, I simply stop doing it, until next time, I find it more effective to work on a new move until it becomes weak and uncoordinated, rather than forcing it and gritting through any pain that may result. For example, lately I've been working on the horizontal buzzsaw, down low with one knee bent and as close to the ground as I can get it, first left hand on top, then switch, right hand on top, switch back.Yesterday I found I could keep this up for about 30 seconds,,two days ago it was 15 seconds, today it may be 45 seconds, but I quit when it gets messy. I'll spin some other pattern for a while, then come back to it.

Works for me anyways,and speaking as someone who spends most of his day sitting on his arse in a studio, paying absolutely no attention whatsoever to my body positioning, I've gotta say that spinning is a great way to work out the aches and pains I get from doing ,,.that


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi J-Me,

I had a bit of tennis elbow last year, but Im not sure if it was caused by a knock, lifting a heavy object or a repetitive strain injury. One Poi injury, that Im told is common, is to pop out the knee joint (I think?) when turning quickly.

Your research sounds interesting as injuries, especially the repetitive type, are a nightmare. Like, Ive heard about jugglers that have had to stop juggling after a few years due to rsi. Though, Im not sure what you mean when you say a program designed specifically for Poi to help existing injuries heal and prevent further ones.

Do you mean warm-up exercises and remedial exercises? Because I would be interested in learning the reason for any differences between what your research comes up, compared to the warm-up exercises already published in existing club and Poi books ie. We might be doing incorrect warm-ups.

Also, clubs, which are swung in a similar fashioned to Poi, was once a part of physical education and gymnastics training and are still used in Calisthenics. Im also told that clubs are still sometimes used by physiotherapists to cure mild wrist sprains.

cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia

Total posts: 475
Posted:

Hi J-Me.

I have very nearly escaped injury on a few occasions whilst swinging Poi.
I have had the Poi come round and hit me right in the eyes on a number of occasions. its a good thing i wear glasses.

Perhaps i should buy some of those old pilots goggles to wear whilst spinning, i am starting to fear for my glasses


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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Nate
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Nate

Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England

Total posts: 1530
Posted:i have extremely bad back ache which i got from quite a serious injury in tae kwon do,which i had to quit in result of this bloody back

however i have sort of fixed it by learning btb weaves etc, starting off by doing them without moving my back too much and over time as i have become more confident with these moves exadurated the movements which have previously given me back aches

so my only bit of advice is if it hurts to do something make the movement less where it hurts and gradually build it up to bending etc further and further


I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Helen_of_Poi
SILVER Member since Apr 2004

Helen_of_Poi

lapsed spinner
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 412
Posted:I get a lot of pain in my left wrist from using heavy Fire Poi. It starts in the 3rd finger of my left hand, and then soon, my whole wrist gets painful. I can feel a strain in the 3rd finger on my right hand too, but it never seems to get worse than that on my right side.

I also used to get stiff shoulders, but when i got more used to spinning heavy Poi regularly, and stretching out first, that went away.

Plus several big bruises from hitting myself with monkey fists (when not lit, thankfully).

Good luck with your research!

Helen


Helen_of_Poi

EJC Ireland 2006 Organisational Team

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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:Written by: stout


I've got to report that after two years of spending way to much time spinning both Poi and staff,,,,zero injuries. Well, other than the typical impact injuries that is. I do warm up before every session first with one Poi, which gives me opportunity to not only think about my planes,, but to explore the full range of motion in my arms and shoulders.



Next, I'll switch to a staff for a few minutes, spinning very slowly and concentrating on developing a more stable stance. This helps loosen up my back and legs and I'm hoping it's going to improve my balance at the same time. Then it's on to two Poi, same attention paid to stance and balance and this is where I've actually found a use for the reverse five beat weave, it's excellent for loosening up the wrists.







Sounds like a great idea, especially if it works!

I've got alot of injuries from before I started Poi that have begining to get better since I started spinning. Arthritis is getting a bit better and so is CPS...(I had bad ergonomics as a child when on the computer). I use the same stretching routine that I learned when playing rep baseball (Inter town/province for those who don't use the same lingo we Canadians use). We had alot of emphasis on arm and shoulder/elbow stretches (It's baseball, of course we did), after I'm done stretches I'll usually start spinning fairly slowly concentrating on finer aspects, then I'll work my way untill I'm doing a simple 3-4 Bt weave as fast as I can, then turn and do it backwards, just to loosen up anything else, then I'll slow down to the tempo of the music for the rest of my spin.

I've never had any *real* Poi related injuries...although...

I was trying some wraps last night with glow sticks and well...I guess I ended up nicking the two glowsticks in mid air sending one a little of course for a reverse leg wrap and it ended up sacking me fairly hard...

It's not quite that big of an injury. I was up and spinning again in about 5 minutes.





EDIT:



http://www.trickstutorials.com/tutorials/flexibility/static_stretches.php
br>


This site is for a mix of gymnastics/martiall arts stuff (it's called Tricking when put together...) but they have one of the best all round stretches out there. They put alot of emphasis on the entire body. You should throw in a few more various arm stretches just to make sure and you'll be good to go. Only takes 15 minutes to save you from a lifetime of pain wink

EDITED_BY: ImmortalAngel (1106779219)


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Nucleopoi
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Nucleopoi

chemical attraction
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England

Total posts: 1097
Posted:otherr than saying the same again...burns,i generally get quite tight in the shoulders and i can get a sort of cramp in my hands if i am spinning for a long time. wavehello

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I forgot about this one...I have a bad habit, well actually a few, most of them are not spinning related biggrin I tend to turn mostly to my left. This hasn't been much of a problem until we rented an indoor practice space, one where we have to take our shoes off.

I find that by the end of the evening my left foot is sore because that's the one I pivot on. This hasn't caused me any grief in the past, except for grinding holes in the bottom of my left shoe, but lately I've been working on trying to correct this with a good deal of success. Last practice session I vowed to turn only to the right and what do you know? my left foot was fine at the end of the evening.

Just another point in favour of the idea of learning and practicing every move and turn In both directions


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Nucleopoi
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Nucleopoi

chemical attraction
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England

Total posts: 1097
Posted:ok then,i did hit myself round the face with Fire Poi (on fire) once, it did hurt a lot the day after.and there was the time when i had just got my aerotechs and i hit myself round the head....dont try this move at home...

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ficklampa
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

ficklampa

member
Location: sweden,stockholm.

Total posts: 81
Posted:i have the shoulder thingy right now.
i am right now doing the whole not spinning or anything for a while.
man it's hard.
spinning is my therapy, when things get to much i spin...everything goes away and for a moment me and my Poi are all that exists....man...hope i make it ;D


the only thing worth dying for is life itself

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Blasphemous Girl
SILVER Member since Aug 2005

Blasphemous Girl

member
Location: Gloucestershire, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 83
Posted:i injured my right wrist in a car accident about 2 years ago and it had been kinda weak ever since if i lifted any weight with it was very painful for a few days.

but i think Poi has helped strengthen my wrist...... first i found that when ever i did Poi it was kinda painful but then i had no problems after a few weeks. when i got my first set of Glow Poi i was in major pain for about a week as they were much heavier than my pratice Poi. it didn't hurt while i was using them but the next day was bad. but after that every thing was fine. same thing with Fire Poi as again they were heavier than the glow ones. but now i can use pretty much any Poi and have little problems. weavesmiley


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:black eye and a bloody nose from practice Poi

nothing bad with fire yet... it doesn't help though when you do wraps


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Good
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

member
Location: a mountaintop in Colorado, USA

Total posts: 55
Posted:I got tennis elbow from work (computer) and it makes Poi and Staff Spinning hurt! I have been taking it easy so I can get back to spinning but it's been soooo loong! When I do spin I stretch, and a month or so lit up only 3 times and was sore for two days, booo frown

take the schneak-tip

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:... and I got to report that spinning actually improves my physique and backproblems, as well as my shoulder (Thossy II - operation way back)... shrug

... other than that bruises, scratches, bumps on the head, black stuff inside the nose and cough from the kero fumes....


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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house_of_mill
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

house_of_mill

old hand
Location: Manchester England

Total posts: 896
Posted:I ended removing part of my gums from spinning once, now my front teeth want to come out OOps!(Pics in gallery)

*Thats one of my favourite Nurseries over there,*

Roman, Trippie Hippie,On the way back from Play Festival

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:confused :eeks: hug

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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duchess
GOLD Member since May 2006

Member
Location: , USA

Total posts: 2
Posted:thought my wrist or hand was sprain but after about 8 weeks it's got worse and I kept spinning till yesterday. It hurts on the outside of my Rt hand up towards the wrist . I'll see a Dr. tomorrow and hopefully I've only strained something and it will heal if I lay off of it a few weeks. Ive done Poi for a little more than a year and just did Fire a few weeks ago and its no time to be down. I WANT TO SPIN. Anyway I hope it's nothing too serious, I'm a little concerned which is why I'm seeing the Doc. Wish me luck.

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