Forums > Social Discussion > Scott Petterson : Death Sentance : Reactions

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Ok fist off for those who don't know, Scott Petterson was convicted of the murder of his wife and un-born son......and as you can guess the jury has said death sentance......(you can go to msnbc.msn.com for the full story)



Now my discussion is not on the trial, or the sentance, but the reaction of people across the nation. Sense the jury has handed down their dessision, people all over the U.S are acting like they new Mrs. Petterson personaly, or that this verdict in some way makes their lives better. Now obviously the victims family and friends have a reason to be some what happy, or satisfyed, or what ever they are feeling; but what about every one else? Do they realy have a cause for celebration? Is it right to be happy, and say things like "good" or "justice is served" (things I have heard around the office today) over a case that had nothing to do with them? Has the media, once again, forced a situation so far down on us, that we felt like this case involved us in any way?



Now the case itself was regretable, I'm not saying either way that it's good or bad that this man might die now; but is it right for us as a people to be happy about this? Or in essence does this have nothing to do with the general population and should be let alone to for the family, jury, and judge to deal with with out the prying eyes of the media, and in turn the world?



Again, this is not a disscusion over wether the death sentance is good or bad, but over the reaction of the public and wether or not it's apropreate to act the way we do.........


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs..., United Ki...

Total posts: 2722
Posted:I agree Fish, we should regret that we have to kill people like this.

A loss of a life, however monstrous that life may have been, should be regrettable, and to express joy that someone has to be killed to no longer be a threat to the rest of us is monstrous in return.

PS The death sentance is wrong. Do you really have that much faith in your justice system to kill people based on, what seems to me here in Britain, who can tell the best story?

That really scares me... Thats why we dont have it here, because we can and have been wrong. Only those who are monsters, i.e. serial killers who kill for kicks, should be put down in my opinion, the same as dogs, as they are no longer fit to embrace life.


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:no i dont agree with the death sentencing, i think its much more painfull to let some one rot in a jail cell for the rest of his/her life thinking about what they have done................remember when you were a kid and got in trouble, if you got spanked, sure it hurt right then and there, but being sent to your room to "think about what you did" was torture.........

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Burning Brain


Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones

Total posts: 321
Posted:some people just use the news as their only source of though. If some news personality tells them the guy deserves to die for such in such reasons then they will probably believe it. I bet if every news channel said Rodney King deserved that beating because he was resisting arest, some people would agree and say [censored] that guy.

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:Post deleted by Medusa

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Fryed Fish


Now my discussion is not on the trial, or the sentance, but the reaction of people across the nation. Sense the jury has handed down their dessision, people all over the U.S are acting like they new Mrs. Petterson personaly, or that this verdict in some way makes their lives better.



I think it can be explained to some extent by the fact that the general public are afraid of becoming the victims of violent criminals.

The media paints a picture of 'them' (violent crimianls) against 'us' (decent citizens) and a picture in which the perpetuators of violence often get off lightly with short sentences, or escape due to being classed as mentally ill and therefore not fully responsible for their actions.

To that extent the general public feel frustrated and threatened, so, when someone they see as a violent criminal gets what they consider to be a just punishment, they feel a bit more secure, and they celebrate.

Even though that criminal may have no direct connection with their lives, they feel a connection because he/she is a member of that group that they feel intimidated by.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Medusa, this is not a discussion over wether or not the death sentance is good or bad, i don't care if you any one here is pro or con, and statments like yours can cause problems. you see topics like the death penalty are ALWAYS loaded, one way or another, and it can get pretty ugly when people start debating it, and from there it turns ugly
i dont want that to happen on this thread ok......

as i said prior, this is a discuccion over wether or not the reaction from the U.S public is warented. i did not know the petterson, nor did any one i know, yet once his verdict came down, all you hear is people saying that its a good thing. whjat gives us the right to have that reaction? we have no connection to any of the people involved..........so far only brain has come close to discussing what im looking for


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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towery
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

towery

Member
Location: Wakayama-ken, USA

Total posts: 32
Posted:I think the reaction in general (leaving out the media issues for a moment) is part of the human need to disconnect from percieved evil or "otherness." It's a bizarre cathartic thing where we project and deny the potential for violence and immoral behavior in ourselves, placing it on a surrogate and then punnishing the surrogate. This is easily recognizable in western culture via the concept of the "scapegoat," or animal upon whom blame is laid and then killed or sacrificed in a ceremonial manner. This extends at least as far back as early Judaism, and the scrificial lamb, is represented in almost any Christ-figure, etc. People have an impulse to say, "That (person/thing) is bad, and I am not. Destroy the bad (person/thing)!" Of course in the case of humans, imprisonment might be servicable and legally/morally preferable in many cases, in terms of emotional satisfaction of our own validation as good rather than evil, nothing beats killing. It is the base satisfaction of in-group/out-group dynamics.

As for the media portrayal, yeah, that's just annoying. I wouldn't, however, expect it to go away anytime soon--not in the post-OJ Simpson trial era where we have stupid crap like Court TV.


"To my delight, I discovered that poi are amazing movement exploration tools. They are guides. They are teachers. They are like Yoda, only smaller and on strings." --Nick Woolsey, also known as Meenik

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:"Has the media, once again, forced a situation so far down on us, that we felt like this case involved us in any way? "

Yes.

The American media believe that by keeping its news emotive (often at the expense of informative), that it will draw more viewing figures (which it does). Unfortunately, this teaches it's viewers that it is appropriate to be highly emotive about everything. Which it is not.

There is a striking lack of responsibility in the US media, and that is spreading like a cancer to the media in the rest of the world.


Getting to the other side smile

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:I dont think the public needs the media to help them condem a criminal that's been convincted. All they need is a conviction.



Just like witch burnings and public hangings.



We've been doing it for years.


Love is the law.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I was going to go out and kill a bunch of pregnant ladies after work today but, having seen this verdict, I guess I won't.

Thank God the Death Penalty deterred me!

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

To that extent the general public feel frustrated and threatened, so, when someone they see as a violent criminal gets what they consider to be a just punishment, they feel a bit more secure, and they celebrate.

Even though that criminal may have no direct connection with their lives, they feel a connection because he/she is a member of that group that they feel intimidated by.



Dave said it very well.

Also, I kind of look at it from the victims point of view. If something super horrible (like i was murdered) happened to me. I would damn sure hope that the person that killed me would pay for what he has done and be taken out of the general public so he could not do it to someone else. So, when a monster like scott petersen gets a punishment like this, i do feel somewhat secure and do celebrate. I feel secure knowing that if something like this ever happened to me, 'justice' will prevail.


Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind - Ghandi

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:Faberge,....With that concept, What should society do about murderers and other violent criminals?

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:simple

prison

lock 'em up and throw away the key by all means.

feed 'em bread & water.

but i don't agree with the death penalty.

peace


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:i never said that i agreed with the death penalty or not.
I dont think that is what this thread is about.

We both agree that people responsible for murders and other violent crimes should be taken out of society or as you put it 'lock 'em up and throw away the key'

Besides, they won't execute Petersen for at least 20+ years if they even do. Since California brought back capital punishment in 1978, only 10 executions have been carried out. The state's death row houses 641 prisoners.


Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:offtopic I can;t believe i got a REAL response out of grasshoppah........

Firepoise I agree that there is a lacking of responsibility in the US media, thats one of my grevences agaisnt the media,

ok lets throw in a curve here........i can understand the point of the victim, and the social view of feeling safer when a murderer gets what they feel to be a just sentence, but what makes this story so news worthy? there are people dieing all over the US in violent ways every day (all over the world for that matter). personally i am more inerested in whats going on in iraq and what stupid choice Bush has made..........but what do you all think made this story so news worthy?


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:Written by: Fryed Fish
....but what do you all think made this story so news worthy?



This story was so news worthy because this whole case from the beginning to the end was very very interesting.


Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:im sure with some research, there are other stories out there, murders, that are more compelling than this one. like i said what about all the murders that go on everyday that dont make national, or hell even local news? hell man the war in iraq, a major news event everyday, is now taking a back seat to local filler news (filler news being that story that they stuck in on a page to take up space)...........

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:There are tons and tons of storys out there very similar to this one.

www.crimelibrary.com

The Peterson case was just a very high profile case and that is why it got so much media attention. Scott Peterson and Laci's family brought alot of that attention to the case in the very beginning by going on TV 'looking' for Laci and offering rewards and such. Plus, this case caught the eye of the public more than other cases because the public is torn on weather Scott Peterson is guilty or not guilty. It really is a very intersesting story because the evidence they used to convict him was all very circumstancial.


Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:"I dont think the public needs the media to help them condem a criminal that's been convincted. All they need is a conviction."

Aidan... the public needs to find out about that conviction somehow. Whether it is a notice on the door of the church (your witches analogy) or a multi-billion media empire, the public are given the information, which they can then discuss. Unfortunately, the media are particularly persuasive in the US and can convince their readership/viewership what they should be morally outraged about. There are many ways to tell a story.



(It happens in the UK too... why the hell did so many people cry when Diana died? Did they all know her personally or were they swept up in the media-led emotion?)



What makes a story news worthy, Fryed Fish, normally falls into a pyramid of categories.

If it's up-to-date

If it's local

If it's trouble or controversial

If it's celebrity (groan)



These will always take priority in the media because, like it or not, this is what the majority of people are most interested in.



Then, depending on space, you get the fluffy animal stories, the world stories (unless they fill either of the last two categories) and features.



It isn't at all satisfactory, but that's how it is.



The American media use inflammatory language, sensationalism and drama to increase viewer figures solely to increase advertising revenue. As a result the American people are led to believe they are living in this surreal drama where rapists are waiting behind every corner and machine-gun toting children are waiting for the final straw behind the bike sheds.



Don't believe anything you read or see, unless you've checked it a number of times against various opposing sources. And even then, exercise caution.


Getting to the other side smile

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Burning Brain


Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones

Total posts: 321
Posted:holy crap hoppah, boring day at work today?

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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Socks
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Socks

Arf! Can I have a biscut?
Location: North America, Mid West, USA

Total posts: 288
Posted:Against the death penalty?

Don't kill anyone, it's no longer a problem to you.

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

Yes, this is sacrasm.


I'm weird. Just work through that and we'll all be fine.

"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater suggest that he wear a tail." - Fran Lebowitz

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I find it interesting that the majority of responses are from people who are not american, which leads me to my first question. How many people who are not in america have known about this case before this thread?

It is dastardly what he did.
He killed his wife and unborn child, sure. That happens everyday.
However, the unborn child was found outside the mother, discarded up the road as if an apple core.
That is something that is not seen everyday and it does hit a *HUGE* nerve with people emotionally. Most people feel this compelling need to protect children, whether or not the children are theirs. It is why pedifiles and child murderers are the most abused people within the prison system. It is an agreement almost that humans have with one another. Along the lines of "it takes a village to raise a child", etc.
Now you have this unborn child, more vulnerable than most any other, who should have been protected and was not. Worse, who should have been protected by its father and was not.

People get pissed over stuff like this in movies. When it is real, it is worse.

Speaking as a desensitized human, when I read or hear of murders and trials, for the most part, it rolls right off of me.

This case was not trumped up by the media. They looked for Laci for 3 months (she was reported missing on Christmas Eve 2002, they found the bodies in March of 2003). The family was using the media to find thier loved one, especially because she had a February due date. I can not blame them one bit for using whatever medium they could to find her. I would have.

When it was reported the body was found, there was a national sense of relief for the family but again it was with a shrug. It is always better knowing, life goes on.
*But* when they found the body of the baby boy a mile away....it did effect me emotionally. I am a mother. This was appauling and disgusting. It was not an abortion. It was not a choice. This was a premedidated murder of his unborn child, and the mother, apparently seperately. He was not taking chances.

Sure there are murders everyday and that is a sad fact of exsistence. However, this case was compelling because of the coldness, because of the brutality, because of the age of the victim. That is what strikes the emotional cord.

And do people have the right to feel about it?
Sure. People have the right to feel whatever they want, so long as they do not always act upon it.

As a tax payer (though not in that state) it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars of money that we earn to keep that man alive doing what? Nothing as constructive as what many others are doing as law abiding citizens. His crime does not come with parole. Tax money pays for him to live a wasted life. The rest of his days will be spent in prison, and his lack of remorse throughout the entire ordeal is not reassuring as to his chances of being productive. I suspect many people are relieved because they will not have to pay for this man to live 60 years on their dime when they have law abiding families of their own to take care of.

So yes, in that case, they also have the right to feel relieved or happy.

But in the end does it effect me? Absolutely not.
Am I having a party over the conviction? Absolutely not.
It is an interesting topic of discussion over which I do have an opinion, and will voice it when brought up, because the case is "fresh". Next week something else will be in the news and we will all have opinions on that. Opinions are part of being an intelligent, emotional human...and we are all welcome to have them. I just think the way some people express thiers is a bit misguided is all, such as anyone who is doing cartwheels over the verdict without relation to the case.
*shrug*


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Of course people have a right to feel about it, that is not what I was talking about.

I was trying to explain the influence of the media in a slightly less emotive way.

And while it is terribly sad what happened, and terribly sad that there are people in this world capable of such brutalities - as you said Pele - how long will it be til everyone forgets about that family?! Probably when the next big story hits.

I was trying to explain the basics of why the media has such a strong influence, not get sucked into an emotive argument. As I believe it has been said already, this was not supposed to be a thread about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty, just why (in Fish's eyes) the reaction was so strong.


Getting to the other side smile

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Written by: Pele

Sure there are murders everyday and that is a sad fact of exsistence. However, this case was compelling because of the coldness, because of the brutality, because of the age of the victim. That is what strikes the emotional cord.



ok first of all Pele i agree with what you put, and you hit the nail on the head with what i was looking for in this discussion.....now with that said..............

you said that this was compelling because of the agem brutality, and clodness..........what about the age of millions of children in Africa that are dieing from AIDS? or the brutality our troops are facing in Iraq? or the coldness of the thousands of deaths each day in the US at the hands of drug addicts robing someone for their fix?

the media did what the family wanted them to do, thats true. but they also made Scott Peterson look guilty from the moment they found the body, and the way they covered the trial (in my eyes).

i just dont think stories like this need national cover. the problem with americans and news is that we dont hear enough about world events, because we are stuffed with news like this, and trials, and Martha Stewart. there are only 2-3 friends that i can talk to about current world affairs, but talk about Berry Bonds steroid problem and everyone has an opinion.....there is more interesting news out there.........but thats just my point of view, and i know it seems harsh, but like you Pele i am desensitized


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:As quoted from America (The Book) - A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction by John Stewart

Written by:
Determining Newsworthiness - Kidnapping
y = Family Income x (Abductee Cuteness / Skin Color)^2 + Length of Abduction x Media Savvy of Grieving Parents^3

(where y = minutes of coverage)



What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hey F.Fish

I agree that there are not alot of world news savvy in America.
And while you are completely right about what makes national media let me say this...

Our media has blackout coverage agreements with the government. That is, they are only allowed to show what is approved. Therefore, alot of what we know about the war is filtered and really, the same as it was a year ago for the most part. So, by and large, people stopped caring about news coverage on the war.

Africa is not our backyard, and many people don't care about something unless it is in their backyard.

And drug killings are not compelling for the desensitized. Tragic sure, but not news worthy, and not effecting many people. It doesn't hit that "it happened in a nice neighborhood like mine" fear. Hell, if Laci Peterson was killed and the baby left inside her, we would not have heard nearly the same amount of coverage on it. There were too many elements that made this newsworthy.

Americans do not want to know anything unless it happens in their own backyard, or in a neighborhood that seems like theirs, or in someway makes them feel as if they are fighting for a cause. This fit into that fighting for a cause and into the backyard all at once. We need to *see* it to feel it.

It so sad, isn't it? I agree with you, but as a society, well...."ignorance is bliss" should be our national credo, unless it's for entertainment purposes.

And to tell you the truth, if you read on the history of the case, he was crucified by the media long before the bodies were found. From around the week after she came up missing actually. Innocent until proven guilty only works in the courtroom (usually but not always at that). That concept has *never* been adopted by the money-making media.

Let me also remind you of other cases that were made a huge deal of that should not have been...O.J. Simpson trial, the Fernandez Brothers, the Bobbitt Case, David Koresh. The Columbine shootings, of which unjust and unfair consequences of this case still echo throughout schools nationally. Peterson is not the first, nor will he be the last. Americans eat up sensationalism in media not only due to the emotions that it riles up but I think because it helps to provide something to talk about at the water cooler. We are a plush, comfy nation with alot of cause and no direction. We thrive on drama, and the truer to life it can be, the more ravenously the masses devour it.

While I agree that people do overreact on such things, at least they are *feeling*. I would much rather have a nation of people empassioned about something, who also exercise the right to express it safely, than a country of people afraid or unable to express themselves.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:I think it's fine for the people to express their emotions, but I don't think it's fine for the media to sensationalize news stories.

News should be objective. Present the facts, and let people draw their own conclusions. Let people think for themselves. Sadly, it seems people let others do the thinking for them...letting the media, politicians, etc form opinions for them.

When the news media starts to sensationalize a story, the story becomes biased. When it becomes biased, the people don't get the entire story.

I'd rather a press that reports the facts than their reaction and interpretation of said facts. Most of the time, the media reaction is over the top.

I'll stop there, else I'll ramble all morning.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:You have to remember that reporters are just ordinary people with their own views and opinions, and unless you are a really exceptional talent it is extremely difficult not to let your own personal views influence your story.

I mean, if you had to write a story about George W Bush or another issue you feel passionate about and you knew it was going to be read by at least 60,000 (most likely more) people - and influence their opinion - would you find it easy to be objective or would your own views slide in?!

Now, imagine writing 5/6 such stories a day to the pressures of a deadline, while continually phoning your sources to get the balance for the story (because most reporters do try to offer balance, if not objectivity) - even with the best will in the world, keeping objectivity in the news is really impossible.

The onus is on the viewer/reader to take responsibility for their own information gathering. It's just so many people expect to be spoon-fed. News should be sourced from a variety of media, from TV, newspapers and the internet.

I'm not saying the media is blameless, I know the malignant power of the press very well, but everyone who can read possesses the ability to find out the truth.


Getting to the other side smile

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:i can agree with that pele.......great points

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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