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Forums > Social Discussion > Depression - Part of Modern Life?

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Before I start, I just want to say that this isn't a rehash of old threads as far as I'm aware... if you're looking for advice on depression or anxiety you should check out this really beautiful post I've just finished reading

So I was thinking, whilst I have depression and an anxiety disorder, I find they only surface about things which are required of me by modern life. I worry about paying rent and getting a job when I'd much rather be living in a house where I can grow my own food. I worry about pollution and third world debt but feel there is little I can do about it. I worry about being far away from the people I love but I put myself here.

The root causes of all my "depressors" (probably not a real word) all seem to be fundamental needs in me for stability and control. Obviously this is not uncommon. But I was thinking - in the past people lived their own lives, with their families, without complex systems of government or legality, and they got on OK.

I'm really talking about pagan and other cultures before these complex systems of rules were introduced. This might just be a really stupid thought on my part but it seems to me that depression is caused by modern life, and by returning to a simpler life (if that's even possible) it could pretty much be "cured".

And I wondered what you thought smile


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
Posted:Depression rates and all that have gone up in the past few years. People nowadays have more to do and worry about, people have careers and families and money to deal with. We worry far too much, we work too much and we dont get enough sleep. People who are prone to depression and anxiety disorder will develop these if they are exposed to these conditions for a period of time. Anything stressful can trigger this in someone who is prone, mine was when my boyfriend broke up with me, then my grandfather almost died, my father abused me and now my parents are divorcing and i cant go to school. I now have some kind of depression and an eating disorder. Thats what the doctors say anyway,
My point is, things would be better off if everyone was more laid back, we would be happier and healthier.
Liv
ps: You're not alone with the depression and anxiety - there are so many people out there that have it too (i ahve depression and my sister has anxiety disorder) and thats just one family.
Loads of hugs


.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:when i get depressed, i think about how much better i have it than most of the world. i have access to fresh food, clean water, electricity and housing all year around. and i have col5 in the post.



it depression part of modern life? i think everyone always wishes things could be better. it seems that noone is happy with what they have got - particularly in this material/cash focus society.

a hungry kid in Rwanda wants food just to live - never mind the rest of the attocities and turmoil the kid has seen. some western teenager gets gets depressed because her friend said she doesnt like her anymore. a western adult gets stressed and a day ruined by a bitchy customer at work, or depressed because he doenst know what to do with his life.... compared to the first example - it seems so trivial.



i think humans enjoy feeling miserable - a form of teenage angst. others call it 'paradise syndrome' when stupidly wealthy people such as hollywood actors get worked up because someone mispelt their middle name in an article. they live a life most dream of - yet are not happy. most westerners live a life many dream of - yet are not happy.



*edit - not saying clinical depression is simply a case of 'get over it' - but i hopefully my general point is made - maybe ive gone somewhat off topic...



unless people find inner peace and contentment with themselves, it seem people will never be completey happy and want more.

i think people get too caught up in the trials and tribulations of modern life, and forget the small things that should make them happy.

meditate

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1098363689)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:i may be wrong, but i think what was meant by depression wasn't just generally feeling depressed about stuff, but actual clinical depression, which isn't just a self indulgant moan, but a real physiological thing.

your points on people being pathetic are probably quite true, but there's more to clinical depression than meets the eye.

stop me if i'm wrong


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:gone i completly agree with that! i aslo suffer from depression (severe clinical) and my depressors (i like that word) are about the same........the dif for me is that nothing ever bothers me till i hit my depression, then it all comes crashing down.......i think geting back to a simple life would help eliminate some depression, but you ahve to take into consideration depression that is just a flat out chemical imbalance...........thats why my long term goal (like 10-15 years) is to buy about 200 acres of land, have a farm, and live out my life free from the modern world..........

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:i suppose i mainly focused on the original quote:

Written by:
So I was thinking, whilst I have depression and an anxiety disorder, I find they only surface about things which are required of me by modern life



i will edit my post a bit though.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
Posted:Go and have that farm then!!!! Invite me and the poalr bears for a weekend!

.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:although, i grew up on a farm and still had depression. although my 'depressors' are different from what you were saying anyway. mine are all completely personal and about change. if i have to go through a major life change then that's more likely to make me completely shut down than not being able to pay my rent. although maybe that's because i don't really care about paying my rent...

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I understand that this discussion is about clinical depression, but I thought i'd address Dentrassi's point anyhow - cuz it applies to a much wider section of the worlds population; that of general happiness.

In cross cultural studies of happiness, it has been consistently shown that people are happy or unhappy mostly through comparisons with those ppl living around them*. It really is about keeping up with the Jones's, and most ppl get very sad when working a full time job does not give them all the things they want. Strangely enough, the people who are generally happiest are not those who live in the westernised countries, but rather those who live in far less developed places, but places where their basic needs are met, without the added complexity and stress of the rat race.

*as long as the ppl have a safe place to live, enough food on the table, good health and a few other very basic requirements

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:ok moon i will, and the penguins too (so the polar bears have something to eat)......besides if my full dream is realized, it will be like a communal liveing farm.......every works to bring in crops, maintain property, etc.........

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Apprently amish people still suffer mental illness, although not at the same rate as "normal" people. It seems modern society does cause a hell of a lot of depression and mental disorders. Not only because of worries about bills and career and all that, but because a lot of people in todays society have troubles with identity and self image. I guess we have a lot of ridicilous crap purpoted by the media about what a person has ot be like to be worthy. But a great deal of it stems from viscious cycles of abuse. How much of womens eatting disorders are caused by the media and how much is caused by scummy people who treat skinny and fat people completly diffrently

I think, there probably always has been things such as body type/weight/fitness that set people apart. I have a feeling we as humans have a tendancy to categorize each other, and put down the ones that we place in categories we consider unworthy.


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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:but even in say, ancient greece, there must have been people who were athletic and people who weren't, or people who were more intelligent or got further in life - did they had depression?

i get the impression that depression is just a more recent thing, that either the chemical imbalance has become more widespread or maybe it's more socially acceptable to express your feelings of depression whatever. Or maybe it's just that there's different ways of expressing it - e.g. getting withdrawn instead of angry and killing the person who;s thinner that you!?!?


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Tao : I dont think its son much of a recent thing, as its just now getting to were its noticed as medical condition. medical science, espescialy in the brain sector, has come a LONG way.

However on your first point that there is more to depression than meets the eye, I could not agree more


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:First, I think it's important to know the difference between depression and sadness. People call themselves "depressed" when they're sad, or even just fatigued. You can't be "depressed today." You can't "feel depressed." Depression is a diagnosis, not a feeling. I think it's important to make this distinction because the popular use of the misnomer has led to a lot of misunderstanding about depression.

Depression is a true disease. It seems to be a dysregulation of both mood and affect (the expression of mood) in which, for reasons that are poorly understood, the brain simply shuts down its affect and depresses its mood. At the same time, it ramps up anxiety. People in a major depressive episode have brain activity (and hormonal profile) that matches that of a baboon in the middle of a fight to the death...and yet on the outside, they can barely move.

However, like many diseases, depression is multifactorial. Think of it as being similar to heart disease. Some people eat junk all their lives and never exercise and live to 90 with blood vessels that would make most 20-year-olds green with envy. Then there was that famous runner/health freak who died of a heart attack in the middle of a workout. Most people fall in the middle, where they have modifiable risk factors.

Mammals, including humans, evolved in an environment where they really didn't have to think much about the future beyond the next few hours to few days. The stress response, which is the body's response to trouble, is meant to be switched on for a few minutes or hours while the individual deals with the immediate stressor (i.e. the lion bearing down on them, the big strong alpha male that's about to beat the living daylights out of them, etc.).

But humans do something totally wierd with our stress response. We start worrying about the stock market or the rent and we switch on our stress responses and leave them on for years. Perhaps the biggest cause of stress is a feeling of loss of control. By this, I mean the feeling that you are completely at the mercy of your boss, your professor, landlord, or what/whomever and that there is little or nothing that you can do to predict OR change what horrid things might happen to you. 30% of third year medical students in the U.S. meet criteria for clinical depression. Why? Because our grades, careers, and futures, feel completely out of our control.

In some people with the right genetic makeup, that can trigger a depression. In others, they can put up with amazing amounts of stress and nothing happens.

There wasn't such a thing as alcoholism before there was alcohol. But the predisposition always existed. There has always been depression, but there is no doubt that modern life is bringing that underlying tendency out in more and more people.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:has there actually ever been an identified genetic bias for depression? Ive only read sketchy studies showing that depression running in familys is genetic and not learned.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:It's known from adoption studies that there is a heritability to it that cannot be ascribed to the extrauterine environment.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:I think lightning's pretty much hit the nail on the head there, I wanted to say a similar thing re: our evolution, but i don't have the snazzy words biggrin

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Thanks for the interesting views, folks. I think Depression (and I did mean clinical depression, although I was a bit vague because I didn't want just one side of the coin) stems largely from control issues in the people I know with it. If people can be in a predictable environment then depression affects them far less. It's only when change is forced upon them that things go bad.

And I think this is undoubtedly a more predominant feature of modern developed global culture. Life is based on so many variables that living and dying aren't the main thing peoples lives are concerned with. Relying on such an enormous structure of beliefs, financial systems and technological (and totally falliable) networks means that our priorities are so screwed that we become stressed by things that would seem far less important to the "simple life" of our ancestors.

I understand depression as a mental illness, an effect of seretonin levels and such in the brain which mean that I can be happy but I have to pay for it over the next few days. And I also understand it as a mental state - a state of mind, not something physical in the brain - which leads to a predisposition to sadness, greif and negative thoughts in situations where other people wouldn't experience these things.

But I find it's caused by such a varied range of things... I wish I could just live on a farm. But I'd need to sell some things, to pay for clothes and taxes or medicine... and to educate my kids properly... there are so many things that I'd have to do to keep my kids in step with the rest of the world, so they could choose to be just "another person", with a job in a bank or something... it's not a choice I'm prepared to make for them. And to allow them that choice I would need to make my life as complicated and stressful as I would have to by taking a regular paying job.

It's a bad society because it has no room for improvement - only constantly decreasing resources and more and more people with illnesses like Depression.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I dont think depression is any more a part of modern life than it has been in the past. I think the world has always been complicated and stressful. I imagine living in Dickenson England would have been pretty traumatic, and depression rates would have been high if they were measured back then. Therefore, one could also suggest that depression rates have gone up simply because have identified the problem, and are now in a position to measure them.



Although, one could also suggest that depression rates have gone up because we live longer and have more leisure time than our predecessors due to better food, medication and technology.



confused


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:That's sort of what I meant... I'm talking about pre-civilised cultures really. Dickens was after the dawn of modernity anyways..

I really meant before there was an enormous social structure, before there were cities and trains and cars and roads..

Like in Celtic society. People lived shorter lives and they had more to do with them..

But isn't that what's right and natural? And was that natural and proper state the reason they didn't get depressed? Is that why so many people do now - because we've moved so far from that sort of "human" life into "civilisation"..?


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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babajaga
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

babajaga

old hand
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 863
Posted:I guess depression comes partly then people can't be themselfes anymore if they get to far from their natural ego.

doing should fit to what you really are but that is pretty hard to develope.



On the other hand a medical problem is another thing.

EDITED_BY: babajaga (1099490682)


What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I was thinking about this again last night and I perhaps its population thing or more correctly an over population thing.

Im told we havent evolved since we became H. sapiens, so presumably the traits for depression have always been in our brains. Though, I suppose through selection some populations may be have become more prone than others, like that town in China where people live to a significantly older age than the rest of us. So, my guess would be that the incidence of depression gets higher as populations rise and resources are fewer.

As far a feeling low and stuff, diet can make a huge difference. Eat more bananas.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Written by: Stone

Eat more bananas.



Random - I have been lately, unrelatedly, and have been feeling much better.

Stone - are you watching me? Can you read my mind? What number am I thinking of?! wink


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ummm, 42

The Ultimate answer to Life, the Universe and Everything.

wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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myco
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

myco


Location: melbourne, victoria, australia

Total posts: 2084
Posted:I would say that I suffered depression for all of my life up to age 18. I was only diagnosed with clinical depression when I was 17, but the symptoms weren't much worse then than any other time in my life. throughout life I went through ups and downs, and the downs were mostly unbearable, and it always felt as though life was never going to get any better, even if there weren't any significant things getting me down at the time.

I went into hospital a couple of times for it, and the second time, it was suggested that I recieve ECT (electroconvulsive therapy). There is SO much stigma about this treatment, that I rarely tell people that I had it. When I do tell people, they're usually horrified, thinking that it's the equivalent to a frontal labotomy, and is no longer legal. From my understanding, it is similar to inducing an epileptic seizure, which for whatever reason tends to relieve depressive symptoms (lightning, you could probably elaborate).

For me, it completely got rid of my depression, but other people who were having it at the same time had had many courses of it with little result. It's a very extreme thing to go through, and it affected my memory very badly for quite some time afterwards (I only have vague recollections from 1 year of my life). I still experince a low mood from time to time, like everyone, but nothing like depression.

Sorry if this is a bit heavy


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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:I'm back on the anti depressants yet again and am feeling like rubbish. They don't seem to be working so I am having nightmares, flashbacks and just feeling generally miserable.

I have thought about moving away from Perth to see if that makes me feel better. But I doubt it will.

These depressional slumps seem to get worse and worse. I don't feel like I want to do anything except curl up in bed and maybe read the rest of my life away.

I'm on the edge and feel like I could cry at the drop of a hat one second then literally bite someones head off the next.

It's getting a bit tiresome going through the same thing over and over again and not really seeming to get over it.

I'm just a bit fed up with it all.


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Catalyst
SILVER Member since Nov 2003

Catalyst

member
Location: Virginia

Total posts: 103
Posted:I think that "depression" is definately spurred on by the modern world....heck , if everyone wasn't depressed, the pharmies wouldn't have anyone to sell their wide varieties of anti-depressant medications too.... Yes, there are things to worry about, but realisticaly, how many of us are living up to our true potentials......way back when, you had to fight and work for your food....today you can drive-thru and get a burger...and work often times consists of sitting behind a desk and pushing some papers. I think that depression is big business....and it will only escalate as popluations boom and space begins to dwindle. Get out and jog around the block while you still can!!

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:but before the modern world existed, we had things like the catholic church to make money off human depression.

also, tyranical fascist dictators.

we still have those actually.

hell, I don't think a whole lot has changed.


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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Myco - it's not too heavy, it;s really interesting to hear and I'm glad it's dealt with your depression really well. Having seen too many films and read too many books where people just end up vegetables after EST I was probably one of those people who would usually have.. I don't know, assumed it was a terrible thing. I'm really glad it worked for you.

Medusa - Anti depressants are [censored], aren't they? hug tell your doc that they're not lifting you. Maybe they can try a different one or some alternative treatment.

Life becoming a landslide.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:nearly_all_gone: yes they are totally censored but unfortunately if I go without them I am worse off and start doing really stupid things to myself and people around me.

I am going to be seeing my doctor next week and hope that he can help me out...chances are he is going to turn me back into human guinea pig....fun (sarcasm).


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MEERCAT
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

MEERCAT

A Meerkat that eats chicken
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 194
Posted:
ok i really should have read all of this post because its somthing i feel strongly about... but i am in a rush plese forgive spank
i have alot of experience with deppresion i have a mum with it even though we dont get on .. and a boyfriend whch i love very much ...its not about a feeling [censored] once in a while (everyone has it ) its not about thinking too much, and its definatly not somthng you can snap out of.........sorry had to get that out........................BUT i do think it is a part of modern life boundries are changing lifstyles are changing what is expected is changing ......WHERE is the satisfaction in life ??? where is the drive more and more we are pumped full of fake and unreal stuff , documentrys on docters who dont care , bad railway workers BAD pilots who fly plains drunk, murderers, theives, we live in an evermore depresing society ..where the winner takes all in the big rat race ................lets hope that people can see history and not repeat what has happened in the past .otherwise this world could turn into a pretty harsh a bitter place ubbcrying


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