Forums > Help! > Were there fire performers in the Renaissance era

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Pyrae


newbie
Location: AZ

Total posts: 2
Posted:My friends and I attend an event every year that has a Renaissance era theme and this year they have banned fire arts. frown One of the reasons is because "there is no historical significance to its presence". Does anybody out there know of any fire art that traces back to then?

I know POI and staff (not on fire) can be traced far back but what about on fire??

Please help us overturn their decision by finding a link to Fire Arts in history

Thank you biggrin


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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:About all the help I can give is in this link...

Hope you find something that helps! If not just have some fire anyway, just away from the festival. Just because it's unofficial doesn't make it less important! smile


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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thor


thor

Flaming Lesbian
Location: Portland, Oregon

Total posts: 181
Posted:in that silly `Vanity Fair` movie, there's a chick swinging fire poi in the previews, but that dosen't prove anything.

you could no doubt get away with juggling fire clubs at the very least


Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:I think you should talk with our favourite mod Pele. She's heavily involved in all things ren fest and is a highly respected performer, fire and non-fire.... Pele!!! Where are yoouuuu!?

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Wai
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

newbie
Location: Sweden

Total posts: 24
Posted:
Although my knowledge in Renaissence era is not to good but if you mean purely fire arts like fire eating, breath fire etc im quite sure it has been practice however I dont think that there did existed pois through the medieevil and the Renaissence.

Basically I think that all fire arts raise the atmosphere, im a medieevil fan so I attend on a lot of events and so far ppl hasent banned me doing a little show with my pois since it do looks nice especially this time of the year when the autum is closing and it is igetting cold outside. Then again we should let an experts in Reinassance speak biggrin.

//Wai


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Sterlingspider
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

Sterlingspider

Senator by day, Sith Lord by night.
Location: Suffolk, New York, USA

Total posts: 128
Posted:Friend of mine looked into this, wish I could say with more authority but the general outcome was that europe did not do the fire performing thang. It was jus too potentially dangerous and most of the toys we have now were not extant in that area at the time covered by most rennesence fests/sca type communities. They also did not have the fuels, wickings, water availability, or fire supression materials we have today.

Pyrotechnics were available in china and somthing might be workable off of that, but other then that I think anyone looking to document fire performance is SOL. Someone I know was saying somthing recently about fire staff being possibly documentable to some islamic cultures, but I havent seen any evidence yet.


"If the human brain were simple enough for us to understand, we would be too simple to understand it"
-Emerson M Pugh

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:This is something I've wondered about- in most films on a medieval theme there's generally a scene with a fire juggler in the background, but, being realistic, would that be likely in reality?

Obviously kevlar wicking wasn't available, but cloth could have been used for wicks.

I think the main problem would be suitable fuel. Presumably the only available stuff would be the animal fat and wax?

Having said that, they had those burning stick things for providing light, and there were jugglers, so it would be pretty inevitable for them to try juggling three of them.

----------------

Apparently the ancient Chinese got round the lack of kevlar wick by using meteors with a open bowl at each end, full of oil with a lamp wick at the centre.

Using the principle of centrifugal force to keep the oil from spilling, in the same way that our modern water meteors work.

---------------

Perhaps the fair organisers have other reasons for not wanting people doing fire stuff, and are using the lack of historical evidence as a convenient excuse.

We live in times where getting into fire is becoming very popular, and a lot of the people turning up at events and lighting up are not particularly professional, or safe.

In conjunction with the legal action culture that is prevelant now, I can imagine that some organisers are wanting to cut down on some of these activities, because of worries about accidents.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Jeez... those ancient chinese meteors must have taken some serious slowing down if you wanted to finish before the fuel burnt away!

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Well I can't speak for fire bowl meteors, never having used them.



But I have a fair bit of experience with water meteors which use the same principle (a cup of water on each end, with the water kept in purely by the centrifugal force of spinning).



And stopping, with a little practice, is surprisingly straightforward.



I've always resisted splitting them into poi, as it seemed a bit of a cop out, but recently realised that, with care, it's possible to do release/catch moves with water poi, and spent a bit of time on that.



With both water meteors and water poi, getting very proficient with stalls will help when it comes to stopping them without spillage.



(As a quick safety note it's worth mentioning that cups of water are heavy- there's no reason why the cups have to be full, especially if you're new to this- much better to start with just a bit in the bottom till you're used to it)


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Since we're on the topic of bowl meteors, might wanna check this vid out...

http://www.firesouls.de/files/board_files/cds-varekai-met.avi


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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thor


thor

Flaming Lesbian
Location: Portland, Oregon

Total posts: 181
Posted:that video needs to be retitled `crazy asian kids with meteors.avi`

holy crap, they put one wheel dave to shame (no offense, but seriously, those are the best throws i've ever seen with meteors)

and as i write this, i'm trying to figure out how this relates to the italian renaissance ;]


Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I read somewhere that it took seven years of practice before a person was permitted to spin Chinese fire meteors.

Im not sure about the fire juggling, but fire arrows were probably popular.

Pitch comes to mind as fuel that could have been used in those times. Pitch being any of various natural bitumens, such as mineral pitch or asphalt, or the resin derived from the sap of various coniferous trees, as the pines.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Wai
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

newbie
Location: Sweden

Total posts: 24
Posted:OMG that was awesome, they throw it so high and when they kicked the meteors up was so cool biggrin.....awesome skills! I wonder how that would look with fire .....nasty biggrin...

I think it was at least possible to have some fire arts during that time somewhere in the world. I mean firejuggling should be possible and of course those fire meteors. If some1 have a video on fire meteors I sure wanna dl it biggrin.

//Wai


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Ifrit
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Ifrit

The GF of HoP
Location: Somerset, England

Total posts: 492
Posted:I second that request for fire meteor videos.

fire leads to creation

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