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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > fun stuff to do with tangles

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:I've been having lots of fun with tangles recently. I thought id try and tell you how to do some of it.

I dont know if all of what I'm about to try and describe has been covered before or not, but if it has, I dont think I've understood it so that might make this thread worthwhile anyway.

Rev posted a fun stuff to do with tangles thread a while ago. its here. This is different (less insane in my opinion). but if you learn all the stuff in his thread, and all the stuff in this thread, your tangles will become silly. biggrin

Stuff you need to be able to do: tangled buzzsaws (for most fun backwards/forewords, from left and right)

Some pictures:


Non-Https Image Link


I will refer to these by their numbers later sorry they are piss poor. Hope you can tell they are a guy with tangled up poi though (in various positions)

Right. Here we go. (this is just how I think about it and explain it to myself, it is not the bible). All the moving about of the tangle happens on even (??? I think) beats or how I think of it the same poi always leads. I'm not sure what happens if you try and lead with 'the wrong poi'.. I think its weird.

How to add/get rid of twists when spinning tangled buzzsaw

When you are doing a normal tangled buzzsaw and its happily spinning about in the buzzsaw bit in-between your arms, you are in the position shown in picture 1. When you are doing this I say you are spinning a tangled buzzsaw with no extra twists.

Lets say you entered your (forwards) tangled buzzsaw from the right (right poi is leading), to add an extra twist, move the poi to the position shown in picture 2, and then back to position 1. You are now spinning a tangled buzzsaw with one extra twist.

To get rid of this twist move the tangle to the position shown in picture 3, then move it back to position 1. You are now spinning a tangled buzzsaw with no extra twists, if you move this to position 3 again, it will come untangled.

You can add more than one twist, although my socks start to get a bit angry with two twists in

You can add more than one twist at once, by letting it spin around twice when you add the twist (this is hard). You can get rid of two twists at once, which if you had one extra twist, means you'll come untangled (this is easier).

Right now youve got the basics you can play (all of this is assuming you are starting off with a forewords tangled buzzsaw from the right), quite a stable tangle that involves all this little lot is just continuously adding and removing twists, so in terms of my pictures it goes, 1>2>1>3>1>2>1>3 etc. and on forever. I find this more stable than just a tangled buzzsaw, or I can keep it going for longer anyway. Another one you could do is 1>2>3>2>3 etc. this is harder and I cant do it, but I reckon you could call it a tangled (4bt???) weave when it works.

It is fairly easy to do double wrist wraps when either in positions 2 or 3. Go play. Play with turning around in both directions to its fun. Double wrist thru wraps from positions 2 or 3 anyone? Should be possible

Dont forget whenever you are in position 1 you can in theory stay there as long as you want.

Another way to add an extra twist is to enter the tangle buzzsaw from a 5bt-weave position. Your wrists start twisted up, and then as you untwist your wrists the poi twist up.

X-ups

look at picture four, go into this position from a tangled buzzsaw or a butterfly hyperloop. Depending on which way your tangle is going and which way you cross your arms, this adds or removes a twist, this can hence be used to untangle tangles. My attempts at this are often on the sketchy side though. I reckon there is more stuff that this can be used for to, it hasnt occurred to me yet.

Butterflies

All this is possible with butterfly hyperloops too. I'm only just beginning to be able to do it though.

There is a difference though: where as with a weave the infinite bit that could go on forever (position 1) is between you arms with butterflies its outside your arms. With butterflies you add/take away twists between your arms, except they dont look like twists, like the weave ones do.

Stuff I still need to know

How do I get from a butterfly hyperloop thats been and done a 'twist' between your arms into a butterfly airwrap? (which is from what I gather is the butterfly tangle where one poi is just on top of the other, and it never goes between your arms?) I want to know this, because I can go from butterfly airwraps to weaves, (via a wrist wrap)

Basically I just want to be able to transition from weave to butterfly tangles (and back again) seamlessly. Any ideas?

Sorry if none of that made sense or you knew it all already.

Feel free to tell me all of that^^^ is wrong if you think it is, part of the reason why im doing this is so i understand it better.

confused eek hug


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Bird
Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6086
Posted:I'll just sit here and wait for my head to explode!

biggrin biggrin biggrin

I assume these are what you were starting to do at Mags' place a couple of weeks ago!


My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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Mand
Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada
Member Since: 24th Oct 2003
Total posts: 2317
Posted:*sits down and joins Bird*

confused umm confused

Anyone who does tangly things well impresses me. I only ever do them by accident. biggrin


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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Bird
Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6086
Posted:I can do the tngling bit no problem, its just the un-tangling that completely confuzzles me as to how it works soooooo smoothly when other people( you know who you are Oli) do them!

My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: Bird


I assume these are what you were starting to do at Mags' place a couple of weeks ago!



nah..those were the things in revs thread... still cant do them. i was probably doing some of the stuff ive tried to describe here though... its the tangles that kinda pop in and out and around and go on for a long time.


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Bird
Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6086
Posted:yeah the ones where you tangle inside, then take it back outside to tangle further and back again?!
I tried (unsuccessfully) to experiment with those, only to realise that it's proper hard to learn with ball chain!

*toddles off to get some sock poi together*


My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:hey oli..

nice diagrams..

ok.. I partiucularly liek diagrams 1 and 4...

ok... now lets assume 1 is a basic knot.. (tanlge plus one beat of twist) however you get to it.. twist to tangle.. the method oli uses above or twisting the tangle when its in the buzzsaw...

now lets imagine diagram 1 is on the left side, wall planed... spinning counter clockwise.. its moving from the front (right side of the diagram) to the back.. then diagram 4 showshow you use the right hand to roll the tanlge under the left arm... the left amr can then lead the tanlge back up to the front.. or if you'd like once in digram 4, turn your body 180 to the left.. you can either pull roll the tanlge by pull your left arm over.. back to diagram 1.. only wallplaned..

that flipping back and forth motion with a tangled buzzsaw is the key to really being able to role tanlges around.. because you can take your time with them.. try using that motion to rull under the arms and over the shoudler.. and stepping over, etc.. just go crazy with it..


not sure I can answer your first one.. Itchell does a lot of butterfly stuff.. I don't play with them much.. but I you can go into a butterfly ariwraps and spin into a same direction orbital.. because when you shrinkthe diameter of thepoi all the way
down to the poi head against poi head (orbital) you can rotate your hands forward a little instant forward rotation since the collision locks them into it.. if you tim it right it bounces back open a little (tangled buzzsaw) to which you can twist and knot as you see fit..

weave to bf.. I dunno.. twibbling(tangled wibbling) maybe?


bird- Amen to the frickin hard with ball chain.. my monkey fists are ball chain an its hell a hard to do a lot this stuff with the saw effect..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Bird
Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6086
Posted:I almost got this working earlier with ball chain, it was just really untidy, I think with socks or something I'll be able to do this!

bounce


My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:Awsome thread man. I think this is what simian was talking about with "insides" and "outsides" thread and somehow it also connects to arashi's thread about inversions (that would be where your crossing your arms.)



I was honsetly about to post afew videos real simila to your pictures and try to restart this debate because it never really finished. If you want i could put them up in here for reference.



I like your descriptions about Written by:
now spinning a tangled buzzsaw with one extra twist.

its a clear message but something thats hard to explain.



I was talking to nx? about this a year ago and we figured that its the main way to do continous tangles. Thats when u keep tangled and move the poi around into and out of various tangles, and my fav atomic hyps biggrin (thats a cross between a b-fly and a buzzsaw hyp) and what your talking about with the buzzsaw/ bfly. They can "forgive" a bad hyp when u know them well. That means they dont get messed up wink

EDITED_BY: Dragon7 (1094260810)


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the*pom
the*pom

newbie
Location: Falmouth cornwall
Member Since: 4th Sep 2004
Total posts: 24
Posted:i think i need to get some ball chains to do these moves!

the*pom smile

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: Dragon7

somehow it also connects to arashi's thread about inversions (that would be where your crossing your arms.)




I agree with everything but this.. I mean.. its no more inverted then the normal tangled buzzsaw is.. whether hands are crossed or not..

miss talking with ya mate.. Igonna have to find time to start getting online more at night wink


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:not sure about the tangled wibbling, but I like the way your brains work rev and oli! Been playing a lot with tangles lately and putting them in weird places, it would be nice to include some of these more continuous moves into BTB and under the leg stuff.... vids soon please!

there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Dear mr Oli...

I saw you doing some proper sick ass crazy "lets see if i can make a cup of tea whilst doing continualy seemingly impossible tangles...with my eyes closed" tangles at clapham.

I liked them.

Lots.
smile


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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:second that.

there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:do you need a third?

well you got one anyway ubbrollsmile

stalls in hyperloops and going from crossfollow to butterfly and getting them to untangle at the end like its easy and i'm all confused...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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garthy
garthy

old hand
Location: Bristol, England
Member Since: 22nd Apr 2002
Total posts: 717
Posted:Fourth that

Love this thread Oli, nice stuff. you have to see it to belive it. eek
and.....
Transition from butteryfly hyperloops to weavy buzzsaw hyperlops

That butteryfly hyperloop I do with the horizontal buzzsaw. (Anyone else who doesn't sorry!)

I reckon if you do it with a split time butterfly and tangle to the left or the right you could have a buzzsaw inbetween your hands verticle instead of the horizontal one I normally end up with. This implies that there is a way back too when you throw them out to the side of a normal tangle but god know how.

The problem being I am pretty bad at split time butteryfly for some reason. (probably never practiced!)

Also my english typing poiing explaining skills are weak. redface

I'll work on it and next time... We'll see.


"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:biggrin youre all so kind

Written by: Dragon7

I was honsetly about to post afew videos real simila to your pictures and try to restart this debate because it never really finished. If you want i could put them up in here for reference.



yea.. that would be cool, cant do any harm.. this stuff is hard to picture in your head if youve never seen it or thought about it before.

when i can make a cup of tea while doing hyperloops ill be happier than this dude - biggrin

elasta - what rev means by tangled wibbling (i think, correct me if im wrong here rev) is if you look at picture 1 and call the line that connects the poi heads a bendy devil stick, and call your arms handsticks. youve got yourself a bendy devilstick that is attached to your arms and you should be able to wibble about. smile silly stuff...

and garthy - i see what you mean... but god dose indeed know how, the bit where you kinda flip it over the top of your arms would have to be side ways... confused

and ive worked out how to get from the butterfly hyperloops that happen in between your arms to weavy type ones. what i was doing before was doing a wrist wrap with one poi, and then if you let what happens after that happen as feels natural (or natural for me) you end up with a weird tangled buzzsaw you cant get out of (except by presumably going back to a butterfly....).
what happens when you do this is the poi you didnt wrap spins to the outside of your arms and then leads back in between your arms, and i think this is the wrong poi. so to get into a normal tangled buzzsaw the poi you dont wrap with needs to lead into the buzzsaw part of the tangle... not so sure about this... but this seems to be how it works, i can only do it from one position so far though..


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:oli- that's twibbling.. peace


have some stuff that I thought I'd add here.. if it diverts too much just tell me to shuddup..

1- bf to weave via tanglehood.. I dont wrap and mine come out fine.. but I never worked much with my butterfly stuff so ALL my bf tangles come out forward bfs.. I've gotten weave tangles to come out a bf but not a bf tanlge.. so I still need work there.. itchel is supposed to me moving in next door.. so I cna get him on it since he, liek dantana, is a bf tangle master..

2- here's where we get off topic.. knee pin tangly stuff.. (I say tangly stuff because you can use any of the various nexus types and I don't want to exlude any by using one term or another) bascially take a forward weave... on the right side bring the left poi between the legs and back to the right side knee pinned (ie the handle is being held by your knee.. think shoks elbow pins or the leo catches) now.. since you have a poi spinning with the knee and the in the hand you have a couple of options..

a) twist wrap.. basically let them connect so that they twist around each other..you can get them to spiral down and back out..
b) twist turn.. basicalyl do same said twist.. then turn 180... and it will automatically untwist itself on the other side.. (consequently the poi is also spinning the other way making it easy to retrieve from the pin)
c) tangle or knot suicides... self explanatory.. let it tangle or knot and then let go with the knee pin or your hand to suicide it..

you can also wrap with knee pins but that's a topic for another time..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:anyone ever try this?

Reverse butterfly(same time) in front, lift your right leg, switch so that right hand is leading(unless it is already), and basically do a thru wrap with both poi on your right leg. Except with both poi involved, it kind of turns into this weird thru wrap/butterfly hyperloop, but when I come out of it I'm going same time - same direction. I can provide a vid if anyone wants to see this, cuz I just suxk at text descriptions.


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:So i spent all afternoon to finish editing those clips and then i read this which made me realise its a waste of time to do any more videos. So i wont be putting them up, infact i wont be doing anymore, im real sry about that.

I wonder if people know how hard it is to film, edit ,star, direct, and upload at 56k?


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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:it seems to be removed..I wouldn't say you wasted anyone's time with your video, why would you say that??

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Dittos Mushashasheeee.

It is never a waste of time to show others stuff.

There are always people (even those in the realms of Glass and Dom) who can get ideas for stuff from watching others....regardless of how long they have been spinning/.

So go make your videos.


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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: Dragon7

So i spent all afternoon to finish editing those clips and then i read this which made me realise its a waste of time to do any more videos. So i wont be putting them up, infact i wont be doing anymore, im real sry about that.

I wonder if people know how hard it is to film, edit ,star, direct, and upload at 56k?



bah... you stop making clisp and I'm going to send dantana after you...


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted:** bump **

has anyone played about with entering buzzsaw hyperloops (/orbitals) from butterfly? i find it easier entering from reverse butterfly, RHP in front, travelling towards left foot, and LHP intercepting the right sock, then pulling the right hand upwards and the left hand downwards, a nice tight, fast spin..

i got to this by spinning with nick woosley when he was here, butterfly, and altering the plane of the poi slightly so that they intercept close to the heads, and you make one poi flip over the other so they have a nice tangle.. which can lead to nice one handed poi stuff.. and throws / releases etc..

and i've been playing around a lot with buzzsaw hyps, and maintaining the spin.. giving the poi concentrated tugs of speed/energy inbetween simply holding the poi in front, like a giant qi ball..

so this ability to maintain the poi spinning by controlled tugs i was able to translate into changing a butterfly hyperloop (in its initial stage of growth..) into a buzzsaw hyperloop - orbital..

its lots of fun.

smile


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Shen Shui we really must meet up for a spin. I'm back in christchurch for a while finishing off the dvd. Probably heading back to melbourne in early july...

You have been on my list of people to meet since before i set foot on the land of the long white cloud.

Anyhoo, I find when i do butterfly tangles and try to make them split time they end up half way between butterfly and buzzsaw tangle. It's amazing how this makes it all fit into place.

I find tangles so adictive, even tho i don't like them in an aesthetical sense. Turns out they unlock a great many things.

Laters,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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xavhan
member

Member Since: 30th Jun 2005
Total posts: 26
Posted:I repost my video with Vicered

http://legoblinmagik.free.fr/Video%20Hp.wmv
br>


lots of things with hyperloops
transitions hyperloop to butterfloop .........

enjoy!


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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted: Written by: mr wibbles


Shen Shui we really must meet up for a spin. I'm back in christchurch for a while finishing off the dvd. Probably heading back to melbourne in early july...

You have been on my list of people to meet since before i set foot on the land of the long white cloud.




wow. nice. humbled and honoured. smile

would love to hook up. at present, its rather hard for me to leave the city, with work commitments etc... if you happen to sidle into wellington there is room for you to sleep...

when tool come to nz, though, im going to do a double-mission and see them in welli and chch, so if thats before you leave nz, then... cool!


xavhan: that is gorgeous stuff! massive! very lovely to watch. enjoyed definitely.

thanx.


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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godavidson
member
Location: Wellington
Member Since: 29th Mar 2006
Total posts: 29
Posted:I have found during my injury to my shoulder, that tangles is one of those tricks that IF YOU DO NOT practice you will become very rusty very quickly. I have seen what Shen is on about and I still do not understand it. I would like to tell thewibbler that he is more that vwelcome and if you know lizardqueen (mmm, is that you're call sign, Lucy) that she should come soon.

Tuesday, Frank Kitts Park, Wgtn

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godavidson
member
Location: Wellington
Member Since: 29th Mar 2006
Total posts: 29
Posted:whoops, put same thing in twice

redface

EDITED_BY: godavidson (1148626009)


Tuesday, Frank Kitts Park, Wgtn

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Thanks peoples, shame you're not down here cos i'm pretty bored of winter in chch. Just working every day on the dvd for no money, i'm skint and cold and could do with some poiple to spin with.

The ironic thing about setting up the website, or making this dvd is that it takes up all my time and i hardly get to spin. Fortunately i spend most of my day watching videos of awesome spinners in slow motion, so it's not such a waste of time.

But if anyones in chch gimme a shout, came up with a nice way of teaching tangles a few weeks ago.

laters,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted:yeah the distance btw welli n chch wouldn't be so bad if there wasnt a 3 hour ferry crossing to make at one end.. but it is a rather nice ferry crossing, and something everyone should do while enjoying the land of the long white cloud... -ahem-

there's a nice wee scene going here, bro.. it'd be great to spin with you..

look forward to seeing some of that slo-mo footage, too! biggrin

massive..!


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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