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Forums > Social Discussion > philosophical questioning...

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Kapura Mataaro


Kapura Mataaro

HoP resident longboarder.
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:this is something that i've hit a few of my more 'deep' thinking mates with, and its gotten a few different answer- so its intruiged me enough to ask you all:

what is the most evil philosophy ever?
is it the philosophy of consumerism?
or the extremist?
etc...
lets delve in for this one....i think there are a few on here that will have good answers...


"surely a longboarding fire spinner should have no trouble getting some action!"- NYC....

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:well, i'm reading 'Brave New World' at the moment which i guess is an example of extreme consumer philosophy but i'm not sure that it's inherently evil, just ignorant. and besides i don't consider consumerism much of a philosophy.

anyway there aren't many philosophies that are really evil ,selfish yes, but not nessecarily evil. it's more that many idealistic philosphers just underestimate human nature and the ambition of individuals hence problems with communism (and consumerism) for example.

on the other hand, any form of elitism should be frowned upon (ie. neo-darwinism) and i suppose that combining consumerism with racial hatred makes nazi-ism one of the most disgusting things ever.... frown

this isn't a particularily positive thread is it? umm


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Frulein


Frulein

Fireotographer on Hiatus
Location: Cork, Ireland

Total posts: 284
Posted:*wince* Even though I said we shouldn't identify with what happened in our countries years ago ("Proud to be" thread) as a German I am still feeling bad when I read words like Nazism....

"I see," said the blind man.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Fundamentalism.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:frauline - there was plenty of people involved who weren't german and plenty of germans who weren't involved...

mike - i don't think fundmentalim's evil, it's just ignorant and bull headed...


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hard question...
I'm not sure if there is any philosophy that is inherently evil - philosophy is born of thought, and that can only be a good thing.

I think the most evil, and dangerous, thing is when a person doesn't think or apply reason, but accepts what he/she is told by our governments, media and society blindly and without question. This must eventually lead to an unfulfilled life (although, can ignorance really be bliss?!), perhaps even a wasted life. Surely that is the most tragic of all.

That, and women's (teenage girls) magazines.
Grrr.


Getting to the other side smile

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:IMO ignorance is the root of all evil.

I think it's also worth noting that most evil is done with good intent

i.e. it's not a case of people deciding to inflict loads of harm on others, rather they do it in the name of self defence (eg attacking immigrants) or in the name of benefitting others (eg some of the churches very destructive missionary stuff)


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Kapura Mataaro


Kapura Mataaro

HoP resident longboarder.
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:i dunno, at some level i see patriotism as being a bad idea....quite possibly i stated the question badly, don't think of the word evil as being literal-more as a way of showing a heightened sense of...BAD...if you can even put it that way...

okay, well here's another question:
What is the worst invention humans have produced?

my personal asnwer would have been either agent orange or T.V. *shrugs* once again, what do we all think?


"surely a longboarding fire spinner should have no trouble getting some action!"- NYC....

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:

Catholic Puritanism

Especially that as practiced by the early Christian monks in Ireland.

frown


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Twirly


Twirly

Shoryuken!
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England

Total posts: 233
Posted:What is the worst invention humans have produced?
Nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. The AK-47. Thumbscrews. Jail.

Ok, pop quiz: which country is the only one to have used all three weapons of mass destruction in conflict situations?


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Lyra
SILVER Member since Feb 2004

spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA

Total posts: 314
Posted:no idea, wait is it the us?

im tempted to say the most evil philosophy is fanatisism but it dosent entirely make sense


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4172
Posted:i don't understand all these big words....ubbangel

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griffin


griffin

feminine tiddly pom
Location: cambs england

Total posts: 505
Posted:i think ignorance, self harming acceptance, and the ability to turn a blind eye are destructive.
but what is evil anymore? desensitisation is progressive


in state of metamorphosis

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Lyra
SILVER Member since Feb 2004

spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA

Total posts: 314
Posted:theres a book that i love that says that good and evil arent names for what people are, but for what they do, which i love, because a person cannot be entirely evil or good

im tempted to think that good and evil dont exist in todays world, but i try not to be so pessimistic


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:I think the question is flawed - what in fact is evil?

Is it evil as defined by a religious code?

Is it evil defined by a philosophical framework - with or without reference to an existence of god argument?

Before we can identify that which we call evil, could we have a common definition off which to hang the discussion....


/takes off philsophy hat/ ubbrollsmile


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Worst invention?

Cars.

---------

As for evil, a definition would be useful, though insistence on a strict/absolute one may create more confusion than it eases.

IMO evil in reference to diety/religious code would not be good as it would exclude the non religious (amongst other problems)

I think we all have a common sense appreciation of evil as acts that cause major suffering and includes such things as ethnic cleansing, serial killing, rape, child abuse etc etc.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:Written by:
I think we all have a common sense appreciation of evil as acts that cause major suffering and includes such things as ethnic cleansing, serial killing, rape, child abuse etc etc.



But is that in fact evil or symptoms of something else going on in society?

Is evil inherent in the world or are the actions people take the result of some other action.

Is good inherent in the world or is it the result of some people's actions?

Are people inherently good or evil?

Are actions inherently good or evil?

That's why I need a definition or evil.

Or is this discussion about morality? And what you consider to be right and wrong in the world?

If so, I ask yo uto go back and define right and wrong and what it is referenced against.

(Ade backs slowly away from the conversation....)

ubbrollsmile


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Ade


But is that in fact evil or symptoms of something else going on in society?

Is evil inherent in the world or are the actions people take the result of some other action.

Is good inherent in the world or is it the result of some people's actions?

Are people inherently good or evil?

Are actions inherently good or evil?

That's why I need a definition or evil.



ubbrollsmile



I would say that evil committed knowingly is performed by those who are in some way dysfunctional/disturbed.

People who are at peace with themselves feel no desire to harm others .

The dysfunctionality/disturbance could be caused by things that others have done/things that have happened; or, possibly could, in some cases, be genetic.

I don't believe that evil is inherent in the world in the sense of it being some kind of force, or the biblical concept of their being a supernatural prince of evil (satan). But the nature of the world is that it can be a brutal and seeminigly unfair place- this can certainly bring about the conditions necessary to twist a person into feeling the need to perform evil.

That's what I think about deliberate acts of evil ie doing something because it causes pain to another eg rape, violence etc.

But, like I said before, much evil is committed in the name of good, such as certain wars, religious missionary destruction of primitive tribes.

Some is committed through fear or belief that it is an act of self defence- attacks on immigrants are an example.

The intent is not soley to hurt others, but the consequence is the same.

An example is the work of Dr. Walter Freeman who popularised a simple form of frontal lobotomy which could be performed in minutes in a doctors surgery. Here's a link: -

http://www.geocities.com/~themistyone/freeman01.htm
br>(but be warned that it's pretty disturbing)

Presumably his intentions were good, but the end result was a a wave of psychiatric surgery that was used on 40,000 to 50,000 Americans between 1936 and the late 1950s, who had the frontal portion of their brains physically diced by an instrument inserted via their eye socket.

Intentional, deliberate evil is what captures the public imagination, but I believe that acts of that kind are dwarfed by the evil done, in ignorance, in the name of good.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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griffin


griffin

feminine tiddly pom
Location: cambs england

Total posts: 505
Posted:sorry, i might be misunderstanding but do you think that disturbances (mental etc?) and dysfunctionality (not acting normal, right?) can be inheirited? in some cases. which cases? i dont mean to start anything, but am genuinely interested, probably because i dont think the same.

sunny


in state of metamorphosis

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Written by: Stone



Catholic Puritanism

Especially that as practiced by the early Christian monks in Ireland.

frown



Results of quick google search....

Puritans Info

More Puritans Info Info

Some early irish monks Info

Could you clarify what you mean by an early irish puritan monk?

Priests now, they are a different story, Christian Brothers are different again, Nuns too.

Im not trying to incite religous debate here, im just interested in historical fact. I've always held monks in fairly high esteem but that would not hold me back from learning more about them.

I dont want to go off topic on this thread either, maybe you could pm me any info you might have.


Love is the law.

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:.....was wondering the same thing umm

i've always believed that the early christian church in ireland had more in common with existing pagan beliefs than with any form of puritanism or catholicism, which emerged much later in the christian era.

would also be interested in reading any info you have that would imply otherwise smile


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Posted:Bit off topic, but good book "How the Irish Saved Civilization", by Thomas Cahill. It has some insight into the early christian church in Ireland. Asserts that the great heritage of Western civilization would have been utterly lost were it not for the holy men and women of Ireland during the "dark ages".
Cheers!


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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:quack.

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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griffin


griffin

feminine tiddly pom
Location: cambs england

Total posts: 505
Posted:LMFAO!!

in state of metamorphosis

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:griffin - by inherent I don't mean 'inherited' as in a genetic trait or an inheritance.



By inherent I mean, does evil exist in the world as an element all of its own? Is it a part of the world, and not a creation based on belief or world views.



If so, can we classify actions and things as being evil because their nature's make them so, or is something evil because it's an action or outcome based on a choice?



Which gets me into a whole nother argument about free will, predeterminism and existentialism.



But it's probably enough to say I think that we live in a world that is guided by a predetermined existentialist framework redface eek



(I've tried to back away slowly from this discussion, but now I'm gunna just turn and run smile) ubblol


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:I'm probably diving into this conversation late, but I've decided I'm going to play in the forums a little more and I'm always up for a good debate. I love playing devil's advocate devil

Certain antisocial disorders can actually be inherited. But that brings up another interesting point.

There will always be the nature vs nurture arguments. Most of the people in prison (American at least) have some sort of antisocial personality disorder. Certain kinds have been linked as a genetic trait, meaning that these people are born with a predisposition to be "evil." If it is a genetic disorder shouldn't it be treated the same as other mental disorders along the same lines as pleading insanity? At the same time there are people with the same genetic traits that aren't compelled to hit someone with a hammer for taking their sandwhich. So there has to be some level of nuture playing on them. Meaning that society is at least partially to blame.

That said, society plays a heavy roll in both the acts of evil and our definitions of evil. People love to justify their actions to remove blame from themself. There are reasons and rules for haveing a "Just War," if there is such a thing. You can't expect to carry one definition of evil into another culture. They may or may not match.

It's amazing how many wars have been fought "good vs. evil" when both sides were somehow fighting "In the name of God."


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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griffin


griffin

feminine tiddly pom
Location: cambs england

Total posts: 505
Posted:no, not you ade (altho i didnt know what inherent meant-cheers!)
OWD mentioned it
and yer, the nature/nurture arguement. that always interested me, but im more nurture etc
the Just War stuff is bloody interesting too. ive only studies it v briefly at school, and the only examples we used were the war in iraq and the crusades.
and surely there are some evil acts or ideas which can be dragged thro different cultures. murder is tricky, cos it can be committed as revenge or honour, but e.g rape? surely the whole notion that someone was violated-maybe the act isnt "evil" but the pain it caused is a result of "evil"?
im not making much sense, but im interested too
(and ade, dont turn and run, explain yourself to this young impressionable mind...i think the nicest round about way of saying i dont understand some of your big words redface biggrin )


in state of metamorphosis

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:like griffin says, what we seem to be reaching here is a bit of a nature vs. nuture debate.



personlly i don't think people are born evil, it's more to do with how they're brought up an things that happen to them throughout their lives which affect the way they percieve and interact with the world.



at the same time there are certain aspect of human nature that we all seem to be born with (i.e. ambition or a survival instinct). if you were in 'an it's me or him situation' for survival would it be evil to take another man's life? umm



lastly i think dave mentioned a universal moral code which some people believe is with us at birth. does such a thing really exist?umm if you look at different cultures from around the world things which are considered good or bad vary dramatically....


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: duballstar


mike - i don't think fundmentalim's evil, it's just ignorant and bull headed...





One could say that about any evil philosophy. Very few people actually think that Evil is good (like COBRA on G.I. JOE or something). Most people think they're out for the side of good...even if they're mass-murderers. I assure you that Saddam Hussein probably thinks he's not such a bad guy and that everyone he killed and tortured deserved it.



That said, I am retracting my statement. The most evil person known to man is Richard Simmons and his philosophy is the most evil. ubbidea ubblol


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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DragenWulf
BRONZE Member since May 2004

DragenWulf

member
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada

Total posts: 25
Posted:Nice

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Page: 12

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