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ASTRO FAERIE
ASTRO FAERIE

ummmmmmm.............
Location: Rotherham, UK
Member Since: 4th Mar 2003
Total posts: 724
Posted:This is where people can have a meaningful discussion about things that you feel are really important, things that you think are important in life, to your being. Even about how you think society has changed/has it? are the traits we once admired from older generations been lost/ why?
anything meaningful that gets you really fired up in conversation.
Have a rant even, and we'll see what happens eh!


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

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Paddy
back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2002
Total posts: 884
Posted:Isn't this the meaningful discussion *forum*? confused

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I'd like to discuss why most (not all) people get angry at people for reacting in a predicable fashion to some aspect that can be easily changed but isn't.

Such as someone who dresses in Goth-like clothes with spikes and black boots and white make-up and then get upset when people give them strange stares or cross the road to avoid them.

It's a predictable reaction to a specific appearance which the upset person has deliberately created, just like letting go of an apple and getting angry abotu it falling to the ground! smile

In my mind, it's just the way the world is, and it should be one of the things they are prepared to put up with if they wish to look like that.

(Wonders how much flaming he is going to get now)


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Random strangers in the past have tried to give me grief for using a unicycle as transport.

Like wearing Goth clothes, it's unusual and different and something I can easily change/not do; in addition there's widespread misconception as to what it's about i.e. mistaking it as a purely circus activity.

But I really like riding my unicycle on the street, I've got every right to do so- to me it's like a bike is to everyone else.

Anyone who doesn't like it can go **** *********.

In my experience, the unfortunately large proportion of the general public who feel to need to criticise, ostracise and condemn those who choose to live/look a bit different; tend to do so for fundamentally negative reasons eg they don't have the courage to really live as they want, or have very little meaning going on in their lives.

If someone's at peace with themself, and they don't especially like the guy across the roads spiky hair, then look the other way- the last thing they should feel the need for, is to put them down.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:see I think from the opposite end of the problem; WE create the social world we live in, if there is something unfair about it we have the power to change it.

The world does not impose its value system on us, people do.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Twirly
Twirly

Shoryuken!
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England
Member Since: 25th May 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Right, I'm gunna use this as an excuse to have a quick rant.

1) Herb should be legalized.

2) People want to learn some respect. Me and my mates recently got mugged by a squad of charvers. Not even as if they needed money or anything - they took our booze! Thats just cheeky - and we couldnt even report them for fear of being beaten up (not afraid to admit that.)

I don't even wish them bad because of it anymore (at the time I wished I'd had nunchaku with me) I just think they need some f'ing respect.

3) Foxhunting (and all cruel "sports") should be banned.

4) Politicians, judges, advertising consultants and the like; all should be deported to Belgium or somewhere.

5) People need to get more active for what they believe in. Apathy and complacency are tools of the devil.


Davy


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Written by: Josh

see I think from the opposite end of the problem; WE create the social world we live in, if there is something unfair about it we have the power to change it.

The world does not impose its value system on us, people do.

Josh


yes! josh serves the healthy dose of positive reality!
we help create so much of the energy that bounces back at us! it intrigues me at how many people claiming to be wise and peaceful are intelligently ignorant and superficially smiliin.
to be with humble people! or even super tanned humble people like josh and kattinboga somethingsomething.
would you like a tennis ball?


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:Charles...I totally agree with you...if you do something for shock value expect people to react that way don't get upset about it.

Now for a rant of my own....I have some nice little scars on my face through some operations that I had when I was younger and try as I might I can not cover them with make up or make them go away.

I actually thought they were not too bad but still to this day as I am walking down the street I get people staring at me and making rude gestures about my face and the scars...Just because my face is scarred and different to theirs does that make me such a bad person....

Apparently the answer to that is yes!


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:'tis a big call to implicitly ask for meaningfulness: meaninfulness implies something wel thought out, specific.
it's like trying to get somewhere specific and asking of the cartographer "gimme a big map, i don't care where it is"
i need a horse and cartogapher.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Written by: nilid69



4) Politicians, judges, advertising consultants and the like; all should be deported to Belgium or somewhere.





Hey now, what did Belgium do to deserve something as terrible as that? tongue


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Dr Greenthumb
Roll up!, The Doctors in the house!
Location: Fife
Member Since: 30th Jun 2004
Total posts: 243
Posted:disrespect to anyone from anyone its just not on i mean why doeas any person have the right to belittle, undermind or bully!
it does my fragile swead in to think that there are people who can get away with it and have no appreciation for people ,for F*@ks sake we are all equal aren't we? soapbox


If we all ate one person then i'd be full.

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:Now see I would agree with you Dr. Greenthumb but according to a vast majority of people we aren't all equal.

Didn't you realise that there are a number of people who believe that they are superior in all ways possible and that makes them better than the average person.


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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:onewheeldave, if i saw you coming down the street towards me on a unicycle, i'd probably stare and walk into a lamppost or something..... ubblol

but that's only coz i've never seen anyone use a unicycle as their means of transport before and i'd find it quite quirky cool but i'd undoubtedly be muttering something like "excellent! that is just soooo cool!!"

hope you wouldn't mistake my curiosity for impolite or discourteous behaviour smile


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Dr Greenthumb
Roll up!, The Doctors in the house!
Location: Fife
Member Since: 30th Jun 2004
Total posts: 243
Posted:medusa

the people who do believe theyb are superior well i think they just don't understand what its all about its not about being better than other people we are all equal for our differences and not one better than the other because they can do /say /think/see/feel any differn't than the other billion people there are we are of course all special peace soapbox

--------------------------------------------------------------


If we all ate one person then i'd be full.

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Twirly
Twirly

Shoryuken!
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England
Member Since: 25th May 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:If I saw a guy on a unicycle I'd stare too, cos I've never seen one smile

I guess I'm a bit odd in that I like to have interesting hair and look a bit different, but I really don't want people to give me attention because of it. I just like to look how I do for me, and for the sexy ladies, any other attention I find a bit strange. I don't mind people staring at me - I'd stare at me, but I don't do anything in an attempt to make people stare.

Same with poi in a sense - playing with fire is such a "look at me" activity, but I don't really want people seeing me do it. I just enjoy the flames, and the challenge of learning, and even providing entertainment, but I'm much more comfortable wearing a balaclava than having people see my face while I play.

In short, I do stuff that I expect will get peoples attention, but I don't really want the attention, I just want the fire and the playful hair.

Davy


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Written by:
But I really like riding my unicycle on the street, I've got every right to do so- to me it's like a bike is to everyone else.

Anyone who doesn't like it can go **** *********.




That's the most common reaction by 'different' people to the 'normal' reaction of the public.

In my opinion, this attitude is just as biased and unaccepting of other people as those who make derisive comments about someone riding past them on a unicycle.

What we fail to realise often is that to ride past someone on one wheel (or spin fire, or dress like a goth) often places people into a state of shock. They have just seen something that is out of place, and their mind may take several seconds if not several days to adjust to what they have just witnessed.

People in shock tend to react with a look of disdain, shout derisive comments, and otherwise react in a negative fashion. This has NOTHING to do with their outlook on life and their opinion of you if they stopped to think (which you cannot do if you are in shock) about who you are and what you are doing.

I too rid emy unicycle in public a lot, and get angry stares, catcalls and even stuff thrown at me on occasion. BUT often I stop and talk with the people, offer them a ride, and even hand them a business card. Many of them end up asking all sorts of questions, and some even have a go.

When we do something unusual that people may not have had much exposure to, we have to accept that we may get negative reactions to it. And we must also be aware that those initial reactions are a reflection of how unusual the thing we are doing is, not on peoples everlasting opinion of us as a person...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:Charles, how do you give someone a ride on a unicycle?? Where do they sit? confused eek

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2003
Total posts: 593
Posted:oh no!!!
I'm not getting into this thread...
I get enough beef being in the vegetarian thread as it is.
I wash my hands in innocence.
angel
eric.


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:What really annoys me is when people wear tops or hoodys with writing on it...and you read the writing out of curiosity and then they have a go at you for staring!

In my mind, if you are wearing a top with writing or such on then you have to realise people are going to look and read what it says!
ubbangel


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2003
Total posts: 593
Posted:yeah, wait, and what about those new trousers with printing on the arse???
you forgot those! ubblol

eric.


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

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Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:We are all human. We all have a right to respect. We are *not* all equal.

Would you trust someone who failed all their high school exams to do brain surgery? Of course not.
Are we all capable of winning the Olympic 100m sprint? No.
Has any one of us here isolated a new element? I doubt it.

We can strive towards personal goals and take pride in our achievements, but there *are* people who are far superior to us in anything we can do. To say we are all equal is to delude us and denigrate them.

Though it would be nice to say that we in turn are better than them at something, in reality there are people who are good at everything, and people who really are just a bit rubbish.

This isn't to say that a high achiever has the right to put down anyone else - that's the respect thing - it's just that to be called the equal of a drunken stoner gently pissing himself on a park bench is vaguely insulting.

I'm off to fire up the atomic accellerator now.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:Written by: 'pOp'


I get enough beef being in the vegetarian thread as it is.




ubblol


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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psycho44
psycho44

member

Member Since: 30th Jan 2004
Total posts: 56
Posted:I think some of it is also how people are brought up. Some people ( and I have seen this ) don't correct their kids for disrespectful behavior when they are young so that kinda sends a message out to the kids and as they get older this behavior continues. Now personally I am trying to raise my children to respect people. They still stare if they see someone who is different but would never make a negative comment. I also encourage them to ask me questions. And if I don't think it would be offensive I will let them talk to the person who is a little different. By talking to them it lets my children see that they are regular people just like everyone else.Plus they go with us every week to the beach where we meet with our fire group and I have to say they are not all traditionally normal looking or acting so that helps too, because they are all so supportive and tolerant with the klids.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Hi Charles,

I must admit i found the tone of your first post a bit provocative, i like the second one a lot better and can see the point made better.

I'll just share some of my thoughts from 2/3 years of riding my unicycle on the streets as transport.

Firstly, i'll say that these days the number of comments, whether attempts at humour, hostility, car pips etc I get is very, very low.

This wasn't always the case and I put the (very welcome) reduction down to the following: -

1. In this area I'm no longer that unusaul a sight to the people who live here. I've also actively challenged peoples misconceptions about this sport by (like you) discussion- I do reaslise that many initialy annoying/innane comments are actually an attempt to express curiousity.

2. I ride a 24" muni with a 3" tyre, big black handle, wrist guards, helmet and I ride it well i.e. as steady and controlled as a bicycle, often I'm riding it on places where it is blatently taking a lot of skill i.e. up/down slopes that most people couldn't ride on a bike.

In short, unlike someone tottering along on a 20"-er, I do not resemble anything to do with clowns/circuses/entertainment. Even idiots with big mouths tend to have an innate respect for skill/athleticism.

3. Also, due to the efforts of the likes of Kris Holm, sponsered off road unicyclists, unicyclists entering 24 hr mountain bike races, numerous positive articles about the new forms of unicycling; an awareness is gradually seeping into the public consciousness.

The time is fast approaching when most peoples experience of unicyclists will not be at the circus, but of seeing one on the road, or some kind of extreme unicycling video.

===================

Concerning what you say about the publics reaction: -
Written by: Charles


What we fail to realise often is that to ride past someone on one wheel (or spin fire, or dress like a goth) often places people into a state of shock. They have just seen something that is out of place, and their mind may take several seconds if not several days to adjust to what they have just witnessed.

People in shock tend to react with a look of disdain, shout derisive comments, and otherwise react in a negative fashion. This has NOTHING to do with their outlook on life and their opinion of you if they stopped to think (which you cannot do if you are in shock) about who you are and what you are doing.




One thing is that it's actually only a small minority of the public who feel the need to vocalise their feelings, this suggests to me that it's more to do with their mental state than any innate response common to all humanity.

If the majority can manage to let pass the sight of a one wheeled cycle, without going into shock, shouting etc, then I would suggest that the ones who can't are people with issues that they should start to sort out.

IMO the people who overreact aren't so much suffering from shock, they are the people who, whatever circustances they're in a are going to be annoyingly loud and attention seeking.


At the end of the day it's a bike with one less wheel, not an alien invasion.

-------------------
]
I guess this issue does have a important place in my heart, I've never liked the tendency of groups of humans to almost instintively point out, deride and attack others purely for looking or behaving differently.

That is one of the roots of hostility towards immigrants, racism, burning of 'witches' etc.

It's OK to offer explanations of why people behave that way, but it's important to be aware that those explanations do not excuse that behaviour.

If someone throws something at you because you choose to ride a one wheeled cylce (or because you're a Goth, or black etc) then they are out of order, no excuses.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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fee fairy
fee fairy

newbie
Location: Nr London, UK
Member Since: 17th Jun 2004
Total posts: 34
Posted:i am in agreement with onewheeledave..on the out of order bit at the bottom.

I have pink hair, not because i want to shock, but because i don't like my natural colour, and pink goes with my clothes. I also have many body piercings...due to working for a body piercer for a year.

Because of the way i look a lot of people (considered normal) feel that they can shout things at me. I am not a provocative person in any way.

Normal is a tag i hate too. No-one is 'Normal' there is no 'normal' that is the beauty of the human race, we are all different in our own ways.


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NOn
activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1643
Posted:well I was wondering about your name one wheel dave, the unicycling explains all. I have to tell you it would absolutely make my day if i saw a unicyclist riding through town! I think it would be a confirmation of sorts that inspiration still exists in society....

It subverts peoples ideas of what is "normal" and introduces a 'why not?' question. ( I could apply a lot of cultural theory to this but it'll be tedious so I won't...)

*This is all my own opinion and no statements made here are referenced to any particular location, it's hard to be bookish when you're ranting...*

I do believe, nay, I KNOW that everybody is different, without variety how boring would life be? BUT we live in a consumer society - based on service industries - and just about every object we buy has been recreated 3 million times over in different guises, we are led to believe that we have endless variety and choice with which to express ourselves, but pretty much everything (through advertising, fashion, whatever...) already has some meaning and by choosing it, you choose to represent that meaning.....

Society relies a lot on semantic references (that is, the associations made to particular objects) to make assumptions about people. For example, going back to one of the earlier posts - if someone chooses to wear a lot of black, lacy clothes with thick black eyeliner; all the connotations of those clothes suggest 'goth' and regardless of whether or not that person considers themselves to be gothic, outsiders will make that assumption and may also associate a whole set of other ideas to that person, like maybe assume they also worship satan or what not, i don't know....

My point is, we can't read people's minds and neither can we know everyone's reasons for doing what they do - in modern day society we probably come across more people in a day than you might have met in a lifetime 1000 years back... - so people are going to make assumptions based on the way you choose to present yourself. Subverting (confusing) the signals that you give out makes it less easy for people to assimilate you into a group and then they stare.... Goth subculture is interesting because it started as a rebellious gesture towards the mainstream but has now built up it's own little set of references and connotations, connotations which still turn heads....

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I think you should be proud of the fact that people stare, it means that at least you can express your individuality, and hopefully that sort of thing will encourage a bit more inspiration in everybody. for increased life satisfaction biggrin

I don't know whether I've answered any kind of question here, or whether I've merely repeated what has already been said... this is just the way i see it and I feel that expressing it, helps me to understand it myself... i also apologise if i may have slipped into using odd language that i picked up in 3 years of a design degree and no-one gets it... biggrin I could rant about this topic for ever, but I really, REALLY should stop now.....

Things that also rock my world in the inspiration stakes - graffiti (damn the men with the white paint cans...), free running (the finest use of a building i ever saw...), poi baby yeah!, among other things.... expressions of self... all good all good...


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Mags The Jedi
Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK
Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 2020
Posted:I get it. God bless FCA. *looks around for somewhere to do a Masters in Cultural Theory*

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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NOn
activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1643
Posted:ubblol and they say folk in art colleges are slackers.... tchah!

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Pippin
member
Location: Western Australia
Member Since: 5th May 2004
Total posts: 21
Posted:Written by: Pink...?

What really annoys me is when people wear tops or hoodys with writing on it...and you read the writing out of curiosity and then they have a go at you for staring!

In my mind, if you are wearing a top with writing or such on then you have to realise people are going to look and read what it says!
ubbangel



I totally agree with you on that.
ubbrollsmile


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Mele
Mele

A perth girl gone walkabout...
Location: Back home in Perth WA
Member Since: 30th Oct 2003
Total posts: 396
Posted:Hee hee, its like wearing a top with the writing "For good luck rub my belly" to a rave - Interesting, and you have to expect the consequences are that random f*cked up people are going to come up and rub your belly! ubblol

I smile because i have no idea whats going on!! biggrin

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Written by:
It's OK to offer explanations of why people behave that way, but it's important to be aware that those explanations do not excuse that behaviour.




I agree, OWD, BUT (theres always a but isn't there) if this sort of thing happens all the time, then you are setting yourself up get the same reaction.

I never once said it was fair, or that people should behave that way, but I maintain that if almost all people do, then it is your choice to continue to do the behaviour that generates such a response.

In exactly the same way that an obviously camp and gaudy transvestite SHOULD be able to go wherever he wants dressed however he wants, BUT if he walks alone down the main street of a rednecked town at 2am in the monring theres a fairly good chance he'll get his head kicked in.

NO its not the way the world should be, YES it is the way the world is at the moment (and hopefully will change in the future).

BUT the person who I believe has the most control over that situation is the transvestite. Simply choosing not to be there, at that time, dressed in that way, is the common sensible approach. He's more than welcome to be angry about it and comlain about what he doesn't feel he can do.

BUT I don't feel he has any right to complain if he does do it and gets beaten up, as HE KNEW WHAT THE LIKELY OUTCOME WOULD BE.

I am not absolving the rednecks, and belive they should be fully prosecuted for what they did, but it could have been easily avoided by a better understanding of the world, and other things could be done to try and change the world...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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