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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:What do people think about the term 'safety nazi'.

At the risk of being coarse I've got to say that it really gets on my t*ts.

I seem to be seeing it in a lot of posts recently (I won't give examples as it would mean quoting people who I'm sure mean no harm).

The ironic thing is that this term is not being bandied about in the old style way of having a go at people considered to be excessively 'nannying', but by people using it in the sense 'sorry to be a safety nazi, but......" and then going on to put forward an opinion that makes excellent sense and could well save someones life.

On the few occasions in the past when I saw it used against well meaning individuals, it never seemed particularly appropriate to me- it came across more as a cheap insult used by those who couldn't really articulate anything rational to support their point of view.

Now it's not been used in that way anymore (on the parts of the board I frequent anyway), it seems to me that if the well meaning people dropped it's use it could perhaps dissappear forever?

To me, if someones got a good point to make about safety, I'd prefer them to just have the confidence to say it straight- use of 'safety nazi', to me, seems to imply that in some way you're being a bit over fussy.

That's just the way I feel, my opinion, maybe others see some good to the use of the term?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted:Written by: ado-p

Standing by my original post.... The word Nazi is one whose meaning should not be forgotten, if nothing else, its an insult to the people who they affected.




exactly! i couldn't have said it better myself smile

Written by: ado-p

I think everyone agrees that the safety person is a good thing and should be seen by everyone as such. This includes people outside your immediate circle of friends. Especially new spinners who might not know a whole lot about safety and might misinterperet event the most well meant insults and nicknames.




actually you'd be surprised. i have met quite a nunber of people who take it lightly. i can't even count how many people i have lectured about the dangers of fire breathing, people who just took it up cause they thought it was cool and never ONCE researched it or learned about safety with it.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Time for me to chime in.

I **LOVE** the term Safety Nazi, and after having been called it for 6 years (most of which came about on this board) it is something I take pride in.

First of all, if you want to study about a word and it's social impact, then read the book N!gger, or see the Vagina Monologues on reclaiming the word C**t. Words only have the power and gravity you afford them to have. All these words, including Nazi, have negative connotations, but it can be changed. If Gay can go from meaning happy to homosexual then Nazi can turn from equating to mass homicide to describing an individual with strong opinions and beliefs on a topic which they then assert onto others.

And that is how I use it. I have passionately strong ideals regarding safety in performance and with fire, and I do impose them on others because I know if they screw up it can potentially effect me. Selfish yet true, and it has been effective for me. I have worked with so many people who have changed their safety regime because I am demanding and persistant, to the point of almost being indignant (after awhile, I start out nice), about it...and I admit it with no guilt, no apologies and no regret.

That's what gets me, when people apologize for wanting others to be safe. The world is no longer this huge, vast place where what one person does has no effect on someone on the other side of the globe. It is small and as such, when statements attempting to keep one another safe are made, there is no room for apologies. That burns my bum.

When it comes to this I am a b!tch. I am demanding. I am imposing...and I got called a Nazi. I hated it at first and the more I thought about what it meant, the more I agreed and not only came to accept it but am extremely proud of it.

It is just a word. It has the power you give it, and changing your perception will not change over night and it will not change the world, but fearing a word and allowing it to have an emotional control over you is giving it's negativity power in your life as well.

Words do not and can not have issues, people do.

Pele


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:the 'reclaiming' of the word n*gger and c**t are superficial imho.



they have been embraced by, and are used solely by, the people that are part of the group that they originally derided.



i think the negativity associated with those words still remain outside of those closed circles.



it is not okay for me to call a black man i do not know 'n*gger', no matter how friendly i may be.



it is not okay for me to call a woman 'c*nt', under any circumstance as far as i can tell.



similarly, i would not appreciate being called and would never refer to someone as a 'nazi'.





"Words do not and can not have issues, people do."



yep - but seeing as words are our primary form of communication (especially here on hop where there is often very little context surrounding them), those issues transfer very quickly and are propagated primarily by words with negative connotations.



(edd by Josh - soz Cole smile)

EDITED_BY: Josh (1089251108)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Vixen
Vixen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Oxfordshire/Wiltshire
Member Since: 10th Jan 2004
Total posts: 3276
Posted:The general vibe i get from this thread is that its looked down upon to be safe... what!!! ive got a lot more respect for people who want to be safe... not just for themselves but for fellow spinners. LONG LIVE SAFETY!!! XXX

tHeReS gOoD aNd EvIl iN EaCh InDiViDuAl fIrE, iDeNtIfIeS nEeDs AnD fEeDs OuR dEsIrEs.

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:and long live safety nazis!!!

<....vanize ducks and runs for cover....>


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Vixen


The general vibe i get from this thread is that its looked down upon to be safe... what!!! ive got a lot more respect for people who want to be safe... not just for themselves but for fellow spinners. LONG LIVE SAFETY!!! XXX









I don't know how you got that vibe, have you read the entire thread?



It's about the term 'safety nazi' not the merits/demerits of those who support safety measures- i think it's just an automatic assumption here that those who support safety measures are good, and rightly so.



-------



Most respondents seem to concur that the term 'safety nazi' is



a) inapropriate and undesirable



and/or



b) offensive (to some at least)



apart from Pele, who explicitly states that she likes and supports the term, and Vanize who, rather more provocativly and slyly, simply uses the term repeatedly in her posts.



I appreciate what you say Pele, though I disagree with it.



Written by: Pele




Words do not and can not have issues, people do.



Pele





Assuming that that is the case, those people with issues can use a variety of tools to achieve their ends, and one of those tools is words.



We're getting into the PC issue a bit here.



My attitude towards that issue changed after watching a well publicised UK documentry where a reporter went undercover as a police trainee to expose racist attitudes in the force.



Prior to this I'd often thought about some of the phrases we used in Rotherham when growing up, and whether they were offensive.



An example being the term 'Paki' shops to refer to corner shops run by asian families.



Some say it's insulting, others take the view that there's no harm done, that it's just a 'Rotherham culture' phrase and that to condemn it is 'pc gone mad'.



On this documentry they showed an old clip (late 60's/70's) of an interview with a senior police officer who was being asked about the practice of police referring to black suspects as 'black bastards'.



He defended it in exactly the same way that we defend the use of 'Paki'- pointing out that it's just a common term of speech (remember this was the 60's/70's) and that to expect his men to change the way they speak was unreasonable.



For me it was a way of standing back and realising how easy it is to miss these things when you're living right in the middle- clearly it's not acceptable to refer to people as 'black bastards'.



Words, or at least, the way words are used, do have tremendous power, all the more so because their effects aren't immediately obvious.



A spinner who cares about safety is a gift to the community they spin in, the term 'nazi' in connection with it was originally used to offend and insult, in my opinion it is not good to apply it to those who care about safety.



Vanise, I can see that your community has turned it round, as has Pele- seemingly you use the term as a good one.



However, when it comes to how the international community as a whole regards the term, my vote is still that it should go.



And that's without even touching upon the additional issue of how some Europeans think of the term 'nazi'; surely the fact that it is so offensive is more grounds for scrapping it?



Lastly, I've rattled this post off pretty quick as I'm short of time; hope I've not ruffled anyones feathers or said anything annoying.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:I actually agree completely with Pele (and Vanize). Safety nazi isn't referred to as something bad here in town (at least not at our monthly spin gatherings). I've even had members of this board ask me to help explain safety issues to other people they knew because of me being the safety nazi at times and sending out e-mail posts about it to our local list.

Oh, and vanize is a guy. smile


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:I reckon Cole has hit the nail on the head (as usual). C**t is a degrogatory term initially used against women, so it makes sense that it can be 'claimed' by women to defuse the power of it. N*gger is another eg of this. Nazi was a name chosen by a particular political party in Germany which did some incredibly nasty things, and continues to be used by political / social groups who feel close to the original nazis (eg neo-nazis). Obviously its not the same. It seems that the approving ppl seem to think that Nazi just means 'strict and inflexible'. I think reducing the meaning of Nazi to that is really disrespectful.

Josh


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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:great thread



Instead of using a term with such emotion attached, I'd like to see something like:



safety guru

safety person

safety support

ground control



something that establsished the 'position' of safety officer as a credible and valuable role within a spinning event

ubbrollsmile


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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Josh,

I don't see it as being disrespectful. I completely disagree with the neo-nazi movement because it is so closely related to KKK, and as such feel that in using the term and removing the stigma from it removes the fear, the power that they have over coming generations. I choose to teach the children in my home and those I come in contact with to not fear words because someone claims to "own" it. No one owns a word, and by disrespecting by using the term those who choose to use it as a label of creating pain and disrespect, I am reclaiming the word and in essance making a mockery of those who feel they "own" it.... and in my eyes, they deserve it.

I believe it is supporting language instead of fearing it. And btw, I learned of the book N*gger through a white sociology professor who was teaching it at university. No one said it was a quick process, but it can happen.

And OWD, the term will not be faded, pressed back or eliminated. I have come across **many** in the fire spinning world not on this board who use it. Several of us see it as an adjective and not a noun, and I have heard it used as such for *decades*. Might I suggest that (as you have taken this "ban it! change it!" approach often on HoP) perhaps instead of immediately jumping in to try to change things, try to understand why they are used or the way they are first, and see it from an outside perspective. Like I said before, I hated it at first, and the more I thought about it and really put something into it, the more I understood, accepted and came to adopt the term and the attitude. Turn a deaf ear if you must, or simply don't use the term yourself, but understand that it has come to mean something totally different and respected, and will continue to be used.

Again I reiterate as well, that the only thing I do not like are those who apologise for expressing thoughts that might save someone else's life. If you are safe, speak up and be proud of it.

Pele


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:and while you encourage the use of this word 'nazi' in a way which is completely different from its orginal context, you are drawing away attention from the historical background.



By using it in a light hearted manner, you are to a degree assisting in the erasure from cultural memory of the atrocities that were committed. This is the first step to having them happen again.



Words are not to be feared. I completely agree. They are very powerful, and are very influencial in how we construct our thoughts. Change the meaning of one over time, and you will change the thought over time.



there are FAR more appropriate and fitting terms that do not need any redefinition - lets encourage the use of them instead.



I think just being called "The Safety" is better IMHO.



Josh


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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:I like the Safety Badger biggrin

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Pele, concerning those 'ban it, change it' posts; if it's the ones I'm thinking about (fire breathing, smoking , drugs etc) I always, when that was leveled at me, went to great efforts to explain why I considered them to be misinterpretations of what I was trying to say.

I have advocated change, but have never pushed for a ban in those threads.

I will accept responsibility for not always phrasing things in the best way, and for the fact that it may have been partly my fault that I was misunderstood; but I maintain that I have not advocated banning.

-------------------

Concerning your use of 'nazi' as a way of reclaiming it.

Fair enough, I can see what you're saying, and if you and the other communities where it's used this way have made a success out of it then I understand why you'll continue to do so.

Then again there are other individuals, and other communities who dislike the term and don't wish to use it that way.

And then there's the HOP community, which is made up of elements of both pro and anti 'safety nazi' elements (to clarify, I mean pro and anti use of the term 'safety nazi', not safeties themselves.)

And I guess it was the HOP community that I aimed this question towards in the first post.

At that time the only use of the term I had seen was as an insult, and, more recently, in many posts on this board in an almost 'apologetic' way.

I still disagree with both those uses.

From this thread it has become apparent that there is another use of the term, as a way of referring to 'safety individual' (as used by Pele, Vanise and others); and that there are other factors in this including reclaiming and empowerment.

So, in light of this I'd like to say the following: -

1. It's been a useful thread, if only because some of us have learnt about this (positive?) use of the term, when we didn't previously know about it.

2. I still do not like the term, and hope that its use doesn't grow. Reading this thread, it seems to me that more posters find it repugnant than find it positive.

But, now that a few misconceptions and misunderstandings are being cleared up by Peles explanations, and the discussion is getting focused, maybe some of us can start to see the more positive aspects of the term.

I would also like to see supporters of the term address some of the concerns posted by those who are offended by it.

And, lastly, I'd like to make really clear that I'm in no way advocating a 'ban' of the term 'safety nazi'; rather, in creating this thread, I was: -

1. expressing my opinion (that I do not like it), and expaining why I didn't like it
2. asking how others felt about it
3. hoping that people may look a bit deeper into it and see some other viewpoints


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:I dont think the term Nazi is appropriate in any way, shape or form.

If its any help, we used to call our OH&S officer the safety sarge. Still military, but not as bad a nazi.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:hey I like Safety Sarge - thats cool. All the militant disicpline none of the, historical specificity.

Josh


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andythepoi
andythepoi

addict
Location: manchester, uk
Member Since: 4th Jun 2004
Total posts: 508
Posted:i think there is one CRUCIAL aspect to this debate that no one seems to have commented on so far n its simply this....using the word nazi in ANY context whatsoever apart from its orignal one devalues its meaning and just how horrible the nazis were. Its kind of an insult to the millions that were killed or abused at the hands of nazi germany. I'm sure relatives of the millions of victims of one of the worlds greatest tragedies think OH YEAH! being told to be careful with your fire IS exactly the same as being raped, pillaged, persecuted, abused or gassed just because your eyes are brown. Sorry to be so forthright but this issue REALLY gets me hot under the collar!

It's smashing to be back x

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:right..except it's coupled with the word 'safety', again it's used lightly as a term to describe someone who is rigid with safety.
Are we arguing the terms usage online or worldwide? This discussion really won't affect the terms usage in conclaves or circles of fire ppls locally where it is already used regularly that I can see(as in the term is entrenched eh). If it's online I understand the argument, no context of personal comfort, however....


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:can I say that again? used _lightly_...As in most fire ppls attitudes/philosophies(and I even use most lightly, I have yet to see any nazi fire performer) do not align with fascist ideals, far from it

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i apologise in advance if any of this sounds confrontational and i assure you it is not meant to be in any way.

i had trouble asking/wording these questions without them reading a little bbit like that to me (maybe due to the fact that i don't feel entirely comfortable using these words in a civil discussion!).

pele, if i may be addressing you directly in the first instance here but this is to all who use or approve of the term 'safety nazi':

Written by: Pele

I choose to teach the children in my home and those I come in contact with to not fear words because someone claims to "own" it. No one owns a word, and by disrespecting by using the term those who choose to use it as a label of creating pain and disrespect, I am reclaiming the word and in essance making a mockery of those who feel they "own" it.... and in my eyes, they deserve it.



so can you honestly say this means you actively encourage your children to use the words nigger, cunt and nazi in positive ways?

and if those words really have been reclaimed, why the need to censor them in your posts - if they truly do have positive connotations, should they not be written out in full and be freely usable in all social situations (including here on hop)?

i can see that using 'safety nazi' in a positive sense is good for those that have been derided and put down by it in the past - but the point for me is that the term (like nigger and cunt) started life as an insult and i believe the negative connotations will always linger for the majority.

an example in point from owd's post about the police in the 60's is that not all insults or phrases are suitable for 'reclaiming' - i don't hear our black community happily referring to each other as 'black bastards'...

i cannot see how the term 'safety nazi' could ever become a positive term for me.

i have visited yad vashem and i will not forget what the nazi's stood for and what they did.


some words should never lose their meanings - you cannot have 'love' without 'hate'.


or is it time to begin recaliming the word hate and turning it into a positive term for the benefit of future generations...?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2003
Total posts: 593
Posted:uh oh... sorry for being a "safety angel" here. angel2

but I've read a couple of times "he didn't even have a towel there!!!".



a wet towel is to put your Poi out, it has nothing to do with safety around you.

a fire BLANKET is what you need at least, and a foam extinguisher!, not a powder one (powder is salt, salt burns in eyes and wounds), not a carbon dioxide/snow one (it freezes everything you point it at, including the person you are trying to save).

and more of that.



eric.


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

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pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted:Written by: coleman

some words should never lose their meanings - you cannot have 'love' without 'hate'.



i completely agree. thank you for putting to words what i could not. same to andythepoi. i think i've been thinking this the whole time but couldn't put my finger on it and verbalize it the way i wanted to.

words like nigger, cunt, queer, etc., all at some point in time had a positive or neutral conotation. they labeled an object or person that in and of themselves were not negative. nazis never had anything positive surrounding them. to "reclaim" it would be to assume it once had positive meaning. i think, pele, what would be more accurate is that you are trying to change the conotation from what it originally stood for. but like coleman and andythepoi said, there are some aspects of our history that should be revered and honored, both positive and negative, to remind us of mistakes made in history, and to honor those who suffered at the hands of such wrong-doers.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:words are words - they only mean what you make of them. reclaim any you want, exile any you want. I'll do the same as I see fit. If I use the word nazi lightly, it doesn't mean I'm making light of history (I'm willing to bet I know my history on the subject better than most here) or am going to become a skinhead and worship Hitler (rather I am likely to be the first to tell a real 'nazi' what I think of him).

it's the people that take the word too seriously that you need to watch out for. sure I'll be considerate and curtail my use of the word whilst I live in germany, but if you ask me, the stark seriousness the word is considered with here only encourages stupid redneck german kids to shave their heads and spaypaint swastika graffiti. I also consider the fact that it is not allowed to print or reproduce a swastika here offensive to my sense of liberty. I don't give a censored about doing that, but that I or anyone else is not permitted to make a simple design seems absurd and harkens to the day when nazis did rule.

(if you are offended by the next sentence, then you are taking things too seriously:)

so what do the vocabulary nazis have to say about all that?


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:'vocabulary nazi' - that's a positive use of the word nazi is it then?



nice one.



the swastika is a separate issue - i refuse to recognise it as a nazi symbol.



you have not raised any new issues nor addressed the ones i raised.



*shrug*


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: musashii

This discussion really won't affect the terms usage in conclaves or circles of fire ppls locally where it is already used regularly that I can see(as in the term is entrenched eh).



I don't feel particuclarly stongly myself about the 'nazi' aspect (as it relates to fascism etc), but I do note that some here find it offensive and am willing to respect that.

In my case I don't like or use the term primarily beacause of it's apologist connotations where safety is concerned.

Concerning its 'entrenchment'- that merely means it will likely be continued to be used by many of those who are accustomed to it, and for some time.

It doesn't mean its use will continue forever at that level (the word 'nigger' is little used by whites here these days, but a minority will continue to use it- the important thing is that it is generally seen as unnaceptable ie there has been a change for the better).

Some of those who use the term 'safety nazi' simply have no idea that there were issues, such as the ones brought up in this thread- once they become aware of those issues they may well be inclined to stop using the term.

For those users of the term 'safety nazi' who read this thread, they can choose to continue to use it at their meets, in their fire communities and even here on HOP; what they can no longer do is use it without knowing that many people here find it innapropriate and distasteful, and that some find it grossly offensive.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:Written by: coleman

'vocabulary nazi' - that's a positive use of the word nazi is it then?




if you read my post you should understand that it is up to the reader to interprete. I just choose to use it to illustrate a use of the word - perhaps even in an ironic way since real nazis are so fond of making people behave the way they want them to, and people who prefer freedom will (ideally) let people say what they please.

Written by:

you have not raised any new issues nor addressed the ones i raised.



not my fault you couldn't find anything useful in what I said, and I wasn't aware I had to adress the particular issues that you, out of all the people posting here, raised.

I can findmyself in agreement with pretty much everything onewheel dave said in his last post, since it has little to do with the actual words used and more about the appologetic nature of bringing up safety issues. no one should feel the need to be appologetic for that. they shouldn't be overly aggressive either, but well stated comments on safety should always be welcome, even if they are redundant.


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Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and has the freedom to use the language in whichever way they choose.



I have never, and would never, say something like 'safety nazi', simply because, as owd said, it seems to be somewhat apologetic.



In Northern Ireland at the minute, there is noone else who dances with fire (unfortunately)... so I have to rely on my friends to act as safety. These are people who hadn't seen firedancing until 2 months ago, have never used poi and still get concerned if I wrap my poi. If I asked them to be 'safety nazi' they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about and probably think I was trying to be funny. So instead I ask them to be my fireman/woman for the night... ie, if something catches on fire they will put it out. This word immediately gives them the correct mental idea of what they have to do. (And for some reason, guys love the idea of being a fireman for the night ubblol )



And surely that's the most important thing... that whoever is taking on that responsibility knows their role...



(I realise this thread is more to do with the connotations surrounding the word 'nazi', but I'm just giving my opinion smile ) ubblol


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:I actually wouldn't use the phrase safety nazi to refer to the person actually doing the active safety watch for someone with lit wicks. they are either just the 'safety' or the 'towel b!tch' (regardless of what sex they are - but I suppose someone or another won't approve of that either, but I got fed up with being politically correct about a decade ago).



The way I use safety nazi is as the one who makes sure all is in order for the fire meet in general - that all fire performers are following the established guidlines, etc., and is willing to make sure people either comply or leave.


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Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Ohhhh. So you must have lots of people turning up then clap

I suppose lots of others have big groups too.

Lol, i've only been to regular fire meets in oz and nz, and we called those organiser- types 'john (or steve)-the-guy-who-organises-the-fire-gathering'


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:well, generally peeps in houston sort of rotate things like organizing and such so that whenever someone starts to get burned out, someone else can take over. the person making sure the spinning gathing rules are followed is often someone else though, which is nice since it leaves the person arraging thing more room to concentrate on other things.



there are more than 50 fire people in houston, and new ones showing up all the time, not that any single meet is more likely o have much more than a dozen performers at it unless it is a bigger affair. I would say thecore group of people that I consider to be experienced, dedicated, and responsible performers (though mostly still amatures in the 'they don't do it as a profession' sense of the word numbers) is around 15, half of which will show up any given meeting. you can count on any of them to competently deal with organization issues, the arrival of authorities, safety concernes, etc.



It is a nice thing to have a group like that around you can rely on and trust. I don't have that here in Berlin. There are of course fire performers here, but they are all very serious about earning money and won't really ever come to meets just for play and so no community forms around it. they are all competent, just totally independant from each other in almost all regards.



Austin has more than 200 last I knew. I think some people there think that is too many.


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Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Holy [censored]. The most I've ever seen in one place was either in Cairns, Oz (probably about 9 dancing at one time, but about 30 people there), or in Auckland, NZ (maybe up to 11 dancing at one time... but that was all a little hazy smile I think there'd be about 30 turned up to that too)

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