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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Alright guys, I have a dilemma and would like advice smile.



I have currently been training up my doubles skills with a pair of well weighted (heavy as possible) 90cm long practise staffs, with the intention of converting them into doubles when I get around to buying the wicks after exams. I've already got the dowel and aluminium tube obviously, but my dilemma is this:



I would much prefer 4 inch wicks. So I'm a bit unsure.

a) 4inch wicks might be way too much to start off with, with regards to burning myself etc, seeing as ive only ever played with doubles on fire when theyve been full length.

b) 4 inch wicks in combination with shorter than usual typical double staves is even riskier.



I'm am pretty confident my skills at twirling are good enough to deal with the 4 inch wicks, but I am considerring possibly just getting some more piping and dowel and contructing staves that are just a little bit longer. I just feel that 2 or 2.5 wicks wouldnt feel right, as I am so used to 4 inches and their fury smile.



So all you doubles pros, any tips or opinions would be muchly appreciated.



- Klaymen



[EDIT: Where I got my materials from:



This is for Melbourne, Victoria.



Chrome steel/Aluminium tubing + dowel + screws + washers:



Tait Timber & Hardware Pty. Ltd.

15 Weir Street, Glen Iris, 3146

Telephone (03) 9822 3381

www.taittimber.com.au



Has perfect steel here, and sells dowel too (its too bad the dowel is just a little thinner than the inside of the tube, but oh well =/.) Also, this is walking distance from Glen Iris station, on the Glen Waverley train line from the City.



WICKING:



Good ole' juggleart, I don't know if you can get it anywhere else :P.

www.juggleart.com . ]


EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1089214208)


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I don't play with doubles much, and I think it's up to you what size of wick you fell comfortable with. ( especially as doubles has more chance of hitting me / you well me mostly) Practise is the best thing to make you feel comfortable with the staffs and confident you aren't going to hit yourself. But I'm going to say this anyway:

Ooooo, look at the little 4 inch wicks! Aren't they sooo cute!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:jeez, you use bigger than 4 inch wicks?? Aaanyway, yeah, i know its mostly about the size you are most comfortable with, and to be honest I find myself most comfortable with the 90inches. But im willing to make them a bit longer and have 4 inches than go without and have a little bit shorter staff. I'm basically worried about making my staffs too insane and burning myself trying to look cool with 4 inches on a too-short staff smile. I also have an afro, a fire-hazard, but I can cover the creature with some type of beanie-device if needed [ie because of poi windmill move basically, sure to burn my hair, not that it hasnt happened before with normal staff hehe]:P.



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1086705878)


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:I think 4 inch wicks on 90cm sticks doesn't give you much left to hold without getting burnt... biggrin

I'd suggest smaller wicks (boo, boring) or bigger staffs. I'm really glad I changed up from 1m to 1.5m sticks, it's made me do lots of things cleaner, and I can do pretty much everything with the long ones I could do with the shorts. Plus, the extra weight will give your shoulders lots more definition, which is always good (everytime I go home, my mum says "I'm sure you're getting broader across the shoulders...")

So yeah, big sticks, lots of fire!


monkeys ate my brain

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Yeah fair enough, I have to take a trip to the dowel/pole place anyway for my mates new staff too. I think I will go with 4 inches, its way cooler, i dont think ill go as large as 1.5m sticks though, maybe 1.2m. What do all the doubles-ers in here have as their lengths?

Hehe yeah, I bloody love the heavy staffs. When you make a staff you just HAVE to put dowel all the way through. It makes everything so much smoother and works your muscles, and they pretty much force you to do the right thing because they are harder to maniplate.

- Klaymen


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Oohhhhhh! 4 INCH. I thought you was talking of 4 cm wicks. Goddamnit, I feel like NASA.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Mine are 120cm....can do most contact moves with 'em too...

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Written by: mcp

Oohhhhhh! 4 INCH. I thought you was talking of 4 cm wicks. Goddamnit, I feel like NASA.



Haha, yeah I was getting a little confused smile. Btw, I just realised you are Meghan with that staff tute website. I thought that was really cool and I downloaded all the videos =). Too bad I'm not much of a contact staff man, I think it's cool though.

120cm eh, looks like thats the length I'll get, although I feel like the shorter the better, I'll have to find something thats 1.2m and have a play before I buy =).

Thanks again peeps.

- Klaymen


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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:Written by:
Oohhhhhh! 4 INCH. I thought you was talking of 4 cm wicks. Goddamnit, I feel like NASA



but you wrote inch ........ :P


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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why
not _Y_
Location: Scotland
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2004
Total posts: 720
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men

but you wrote inch ........ :P

technicality... ubbloco


You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:yes, this is the way my brain works. ubbloco

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:What does everyone else think? 1.2m I dunno, seems a tad long. My main concern is basically that 90cm im gonna burn myself with 4inch wickies. Should I go all 'hero' and risk it?

- Klaymen


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:How tall are you? How long are your arms? If you're going for shortish staffs, then maybe go for the longest that'll comfortably spin a wheel (if that's the right word - where you hold both arms out together and spin the staffs in the space between them)

Or ubbidea go for 120, and then if you don't like them, cut them down. Bit of a hassle, but easier than making them longer wink


monkeys ate my brain

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:lol when people ask about staff dimensions, the words 'p1ssing' and 'contest' cometh to mindeth!
It's all up to personal choice about what makes for a more beautiful repertoire, rather than bravado.
klaymen mate, you don't *have* to fully soak 4" wicks if you don't always want the full fire smile
good luck mate!


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:My Sticks are 90cm long with 4inch wick. Pyroptix uses similar sticks too (cept his are shorter).

It seems to be a bit of a norm in Oz to use sub 1m sticks for doubles?

I have to say tho, I tend to use Katinca's (approx)75cm sticks with 2.5inch wick on them more these days as the fire is more manageable for moves which stay in close proximity to the body.

Im looking after BenJamens doubles too. They have 4 inch wick and are about 5 foot long and heavy! horses for courses smile

I find with my sticks the only time I need to be especially careful is before Ive burned them off, because eth flame can 'lick' up the staff all the way to the handle...which hurts.

Josh


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:After measureing from my hand to my chest (around 52cm, a tad longer) I have decided to go for 1m staffs or just over, but get 4 inch wicks. Yeah, you are right bender, but I just find I enjoy a burn more with the fury of 4 inches smile.

Yeah, flame licking, that's what i was thinking Josh. And I guess the flame lick would be even worse with the 2 doubles held in one hand. But at the same time, you can beast out single moves quick quickly at the beginning of a burn, burn some of the kero away and spin real fast to avoid getting licked, then throw up and catch into doubles, then towards the end of a burn possible do some cross-formation doubles. Yep, that's what I'll do, but I'll obviously vary it up a bit smile.

Final verdict: 1m staves, 4 inch wicks. Keeping current poles as practise staffs which will be useful.

Thanks for the advice folks! I guess you'll find out how it goes after i give them a crank :P *kisses afro goodbye*.

Adios,

- Klaymen


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Heph
Heph

member
Location: Chicago, IL
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 79
Posted:the first and only set of doubles ive made was one meter, with four inch kevlar heads....twas the only kevlar i had in the house, and 2.5 inch looks so small after using the fat stuff for a while!!!! wink anyway, LOTS of fire for someone more accustomed to two poi heads...also limiting in that i can't slide my hands too far off center without getting hot fingers...i think my next set will be longer, maybe 1.2 meters or so...i played with a longer set yesterday and i liked the feel. but best of luck and im sure after a month or so with anything you'll be more sure of what you like personally.
whats the verdict on tubing material for you guys? i usually go aluminum for weight but now im being told it conducts too much heat(maybe thats why my hands are hot) and that copper is just as light but cooler(temperature, not more pimpin, that is)...
what do you guys think?
heph


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:also, when ima talk 4" i also mean 50cm of 3.2mm thick kevlar, which once secured onto a 17mm guage staff works out to be the circumference that is smaller than the girth of a coke can.
or diet fanta. peace
can't forget that ace tangy flavour - ask for it by name yo.


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Thanks Heph. Yeah I'm going with hardened aluminium tubing, but to be honest I wasn't really sure of any alternative [I'd be interested to hear what other good tubing materials can be used, if theres something better than hardened aluminium obviously I would prefer to get it, I mean, I'm spending 80bucks on the wicks and that aint cheap ;P]. I think the last staff I made I used some type of steel tube or something (not sure, it was shiney though). Anyway, bad mistake, the heat tends to sort of warm the metal, and it ends bending all the time and you have to bend it back in to shape. Although that problem will be over-come anyway since I'll be putting dowel all the way through these new ones. So yeah, i will probably use hardened aluminium tubing.



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1086959700)


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Heph: copper is one of the best conductors of heat there is (see here) [1]- it's used in many cooling products. It's also weaker for the weight and (I think) less springy, so it's more likely to kink and bend.

I made a pair of 1m staffs out of steel tube, they work quite well - the extra weight is useful on staffs that small. They bend quite easily, but also bend back quite easy, and when they're that small, they don't have to be *too* straight wink. I didn't have a problem with heat as such, but then I only had 2 inch wicks. That said, the only burn i've had from staffing came from those just after I learnt snakes - you don't have very much space to lock that isn't burning...

[1] I'm not sure if a copper *staff* would necessarily conduct more than an equivalent ally one, though, as there would be a lower cross sectional area. Needs more math than I'm up for at the mo biggrin


monkeys ate my brain

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:how well does steel conduct mo-seph? I'll look that up. Because I was thinking, I could always make 1m steel doubles, but dowel the whole way through so it won't bend. That'd work well. What do you think? But yeah, maximum weight definately. [ Also, any people from the melbourne area of Australia know any good metal tubing joints? I think my mate penna knows a good place where he got his aluminium tubing, I'll have to ask him soon. ]



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1086961657)


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:My stick may be bronze or something. It's a gold kinda colour. I don't have any heat problems. I don't think it's copper anywho...

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:sounds like brass - I dont think Bronze is used very much anymore..(thinks back to high school Ancient History Class)

smile

Josh


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:By the way guys, what did y'all think about steel and dowelling. Steel warps a bit under the heat of the flames, but if I have dowelling all the way through the staff, will that be rigid enough so that the metal will not bend? I am assuming the warping of the steel isn't enough to somehow bend the dowel, but I thought I would check anyway smile. Thank-a you.

- Klaymen


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:My steel staffs haven't given me any problems - they're a little bit bent, not from the flames, just from being dropped and trodden on, I think, but they feel fine to use. Dowel probably wound't hurt, though

monkeys ate my brain

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:Depends on what weight your into. Personally I go for "as light as possible" but then im no contact master, i have no idea what weight contact guys like but for pure speed alimunim with no dowell is where its at for me.
The dowell/ wood has no real purpose except to hold the kev onto the end of your staff, so if u can connect your kev with no dowell then what is the point?!?

Also, my long staff is totally hollow, often it gets the flame run down through the inside, and hits the other end, and it lights by itself biggrin woohoo thats not even to mention the wicked light saber sounds it makes as the wind and flame runs through the hollow tube. cool (Oh yea, my staff has extension ends, so i wouldn't know what 1 solid long aluminum pipe would do)

Anyone else here :crazy: enough to have hollow staves?


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />

sounds like brass - I dont think Bronze is used very much anymore..(thinks back to high school Ancient History Class)





biggrin The thing that's made with copper and steel or something.....probably brass not likely to be broze no ubblol


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:hehe. Hollow eh Dragon7? Each to their own, I prefer heaviest staffs possible. Mo-seph good to hear your steel staffs don't bend much even without dowelling, so mine should stay dead straight. Thanks folks.



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1087211963)


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originalsmit
originalsmit

addict
Location: nottingham, england. cornwall ...
Member Since: 28th Aug 2003
Total posts: 469
Posted:hollow staffs are all good but tend to dent very easily (my garden is not tre practice freindly)
yes and i agree, the noise hollow staffs make is cool, especially if it is a little windy.
latest one i made is aluminuim with a dowel core, its all good but i made it over 6 foot long for a experiment. hard to use /handle/turn.

as for copper i cant see it being very good.
my flatmate wanted a staff and bought copper pipe for it. if you lean a copper pipe aganst a wall for two weeks it will bend A LOT, to the point of looking like a banana,it ended up totally unusable.copper is very soft and ductile .
so if your using copper you need a wooden core and then you may as well have aluminium

but as bender says these things are a real case of horses for courses and trial and error and borrowing other peoples doubles and going 'yes i like that method' and then finally making your own pair of perfect doubes.

im gonna fiddle with my broom handles before making fire doubles, if im gonna have em i may as well be able to trick with them


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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Written by: originalsmit
as for copper i cant see it being very good.



No, copper sucks... I went to get some dowel yesterday, and found copper tubing for about quater the price, so I thought I'd give it a go for some practise staffs. They're *really* heavy, which is fine for practising, makes the real ones seem light, but they also bend very easily - you don't even have to drop them, just a hard catch or vigorous spinning will do it. frown

Stay away from copper!


monkeys ate my brain

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Oh man, post exam-twirl tonight, majorly smacked myself in the head. God a huge bump next to my eye-brow. Hehe twirling injuries, embarrassing but funny. Oh, and this wasn't with the new doubles either. Lent my mate my longer staff for a while, so it was my first twirl with it for aaages. Ouch! =)

- Klaymen


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