Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > doubles - combined -> separation combos.

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DentrassiDentrassiGOLD Member
3,044 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia

not sure if there has been a thread on this before - but if there is let me know and ill post this there.

when performing with doubles its always nice to start off by holding both staff in one hand - do some basic moves, then see the audience oohh and ahhh by separating the staffs and going into standard double stuff.

what im working on are combinations/moves whereby you hold both staffs together in one hand, separate the two in the move, then have them rejoin in one hand at the end.
additionally - any random ideas as to how to separate the staffs, and random ideas how to recatch them in the one hand again.

understand? no? tough.

Separations: the normal separation i used to do was spinning both staffs in one hand, throwing one up in the air, and catching it with the other hand. this can be done infinite ways of course.

halo roll doubles combo - both staffs in left hand, bring from front to back over left shoulder as a normal entry to a halo roll. however release only one of the staff into the halo roll, hold on to the other staff with left hand. as the halo rolling staff exits over the front of the right shoulder, your staffs are in a nice rhythm for standard 'parallel' double spinning.
keeping the rhythm, next time you left staff comes up to the shoulder, halo roll that staff over to the right side, to catch it with the right hand. now both staffs are in the right hand.

so thats pretty much a 'separation' and 'rejoin' forming one move.

the other one ive been working on is a fishtail combo [well i think its a not really up to date with staff move terminology]

hold both staffs in left hand palm down, one being held with the fingers, one held with the thumb. roll the staffs forwards, realese the fingers so the front staff rolls on to the back of the hand, but still hold the other staff with your thumb. move your left hand right around to your right side, while bending the wrist back to fishtail the rolling staff. the rolling staff then rolls nicely back to the palm side of the hand where it can be nicely recaught by the fingers.

the overall effect is the staff go from together, to crossed, to together. i can do this with either hand, fishtailing either looks very cool with fire.

hope ive explained that well and got the terminology right...

another smaller move - spin staffs together in ceiling plane, with one staff on top of the other. release the top staff, and halt the other staff, so the top staff it spins 180, balanced on the handle of the other staff. it stops at 180, cos the wicks hit each other, however once i managed to 'bump' the top staff so it bounced over the other staffs wicks, and completed the full 360.

anyone have other combos along these lines?

ben-ja-mans doubles cross thing video is a good example of what im talking about.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Klaymen180 posts
Location: Melbourne, Vic.

Hey Dentrassi. You sound like you know what you are talking about, any chance of some videos? How about a link to that Ben-Ja-Men video atleast smile.

- Klaymen

PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Klaymen go look in the videos forum, Ben's vids are right there.


If you hold the sticks together, you can spin them as one, and use a chopsticks type handmovement to split them to crosses or to turn the one stick through 180 degrees while the other is still spinning. This gives one staff doing double figure eights while the other does singles in the same hand.

Also - spinning rvs rotors with 2 sticks in the one grip, stall them, but release the to one and let it roll over the back of your hand and you go straight into butterfly. This also works really nice with the clubs 'Snake' type windup.

I agree that seperations and collections are underrated in doubles spinning.


Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

529 posts
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still in bristol :)

I like this kind of stuff too - if you want some more ideas:

Catches: Stuff Jacob was showing me last year: do parallels, one staff in each hand, as one hand comes round the front of the body throw that staff up and catch it with the other hand that already has a staff in it - you end up with both staffs in one hand. Kind of the reverse of your separation move - looks great because one staff suddenly disappears. I remember Jacob extended this to playing with three staff at a time - one in each hand and the third being thrown from hand to the other eek

Separation: If you have both staffs together do a windmill type move as if it was one staff (behind the back pass - behind the head pass - btb pass - bth pass - etc), say clockwise.

As both staffs are passed behind the head from left to right and rotate down the right side of the body (both held in the right hand) drop one behind the back into the left hand and bring it out smile

happy playing weavesmiley


DeepSoulSheepDeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Wicked double halo roll combo dude cool

As far as starts go you can also throw both staffs in the air at the same time. This is easist if they're horizontal cause it's easier to spot and catch 'em. This can be done from cross or together formation.

Vertical looks better but is more difficult. I still don't have them consistant. Try playing with that finger and thumb grip you decribed above, trying to hold onto on staff fractionally longer than the other when you throw, like juggling multiplexes perhaps try flicking the one in the fingers slightly higher.

An interesting catch straight into cross formation is you can catch a staff between the pinky side of the other staff and the wrist like devilstick trap between the wrong end of the handstick and the underside of the wrist.

You have to use a different angle to catch it though. It helped me to carry the staff already in the catching hand vertically through the hand and try to catch the one in the air so it sits horizontally across the hand under the one already in the hand.

Concerning the last balancing one. Have you seen Rob's videos? Think it's O'Minero and because life isn't. There's some wicked balancing one stick on the other. I couldn't do it till I took up devilsticks and got the hang of the move with that first.

Dunno if you saw this thread [Old link] maybe usefull.


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

ben-ja-menben-ja-menGOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia

i like the separtion rejoin combo concept alot smile

ive been playing round with trying to do all the normal contact staff stuff i do with two staffs and getting them to split into a cross. one that im playing with alot is reverse fishtail with both staffs resting on the back of the hand, ive found a couple of times when i get my arm into the right spot the two staffs can fishtail a few beats before they seperate. im finding that if the staffs are parrallel they take longer to open out but if u pass them in as a cross thats almost parrallel they open out into a cross really nicely. ive been trying to do reverse fishtail open into a cross and then pass it as a cross into a halo roll, having trouble taking it out of the halo neatly though confused

i find the elbow - hand - hand - elbow - halo type stuff works nicely without the staffs seperating if they are passed in parrallel and that you can get it to open into a cross in between the hands if they are a almost parrallel cross and then rejoin as they come off the elbow.

also holding both staffs in one elbow and moving ur arm so that it draws out a big circle above you works nicely for creating a cross.

josh showed me a cool two stick move where u twirl one stick either side and pass one staff across ur back as a halo and catch it with the entry arm then go into cool parrallel hand and elbow movements. ive been trying to go from the halo into a neck roll with the other stick being held to make a cross ....... having very limited success

ill try n do up short vids of each before i go overseas as my short descriptions here suck

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

1,810 posts
Location: London

Ohhhhh but some of us will get to see them in person I hope smile


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DentrassiDentrassiGOLD Member
3,044 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia

worked out another tasty combo - this actually is a really smooth way to change from parrallel doubles spinning to butterfly type spinning.

involves some contact work.

first move to make sure you can do is a shoulder-> neckfront -> shoulder roll with a single staff, and a halo roll with a single staff.

the full combinatoin.
- from parrelell spinning, halo roll the left staff into the right hand, so both are staffs are in the right hand [as described in the 1st post of the thread]
- pass the staffs btb
- as you bring them up on your left side, release one staff into the shoulder-neckfront-shoulder, while continuing basic figure 8 motion with the other staff.
- as the contacting staff rolls across your neck, rotate 90 degrees right, and catch the contacting staff as it comes down off your shoulder. with your right hand.
-continue both staffs moving in figure 8 - and you realise you are in reverse butterfly figure 8 things...

then you can do the same thing to go from butterfly to paralell spinning....

-from rev bf [with pinkies leading], roll left staff into a shoulder-neck-front-shoulder. turn 90 degrees right during the move, the catch the left staff with your right hand, which was already doing figure 8s with the other staff.
-pass the staffs to left btb, release one staff into a halo roll across the back and catch with your right hand.

and hey presto - youve gone from bf to parallel.

hope you guys like that! biggrin

i would post a video, but due to the absence of a video camera, that is unlikely to happen....

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

ben-ja-menben-ja-menGOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia

v tasty ive been playing with a few doubles combos
parallels to the side --> pass right staff into halo---> catch infront with right hand ---> turn to the left as the staff from the right hand is coming under armpit

parallels to the side --> pass right staff into halo ---> catch behind on left side with right hand --> 1 beat figure 8 with two staffs in parallel on left side ---> 1 beat figure 8 on right side ---> pass into halo releasing only one staff ---> turn 180 so it rolls over your neck and pass staff in right hand into left hand ---> catch other staff in right hand

ive been trying to get it so i can keep turning but havnt had much joy yet

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

nativenativeSILVER Member
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa

i think thats pretty cool im still on single staff


DentrassiDentrassiGOLD Member
3,044 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia

*sigh* i feel the urge to grab my doubles, run the nearest open area, and have a play.

developing the move i mentioned in my last post, i can now do continuous shoulder-neckfront-shoulder-btb cycles , with doubles.
meaning while one staff is doing the contact combo, the other is being passed btb, then the contact staff gets passed btb, and the other staff does the contact move.

returning to the original separations-combinations concept, heres another one.

- hold both staffs in left hand, move them under your left armpit into a shoulder-neck-shoulder. however, only release one staff into the contact combo, the other staff stays on the other hand, and kindof bounces off the armpit and changes direction [to anti clockwise in wall plane].

- as the contact staff moves over the neck, continue spinning the other staff, and change into right hand.

- as the contacting staff rolls off the right shoulder, move the other staff under the right armpit, and catch the contact staff with the right hand.

- now both staffs are in the right hand.

ive only managed to pull this off once, with my 4ft doubles. theres numerous parts of the move i still need to fine tune - just the original separation of staffs requires a specific grip and movement.

another combo-
[new terminology - will call both staffs one hand [BSOH] ]

-starting from bsoh left, split the staffs via a single halo role into parallel.
- immediately, roll left staff around left armpit, up into shoulder-neck-shoulder, and pass the right staff btb.
-after contacting staff is in right hand, you are coming up in parallel, halo roll the left staff into bsoh right.

at the moment, im wondering if it possible to palm spin bsoh, then separate via one staff rolling down in a half steve....


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Written by: Dentrassi

at the moment, im wondering if it possible to palm spin bsoh, then separate via one staff rolling down in a half steve....

What's the move called where you have staffs as a cross in helicopter plane and you're only holding the bottom one? COs you can come out of that nicely in a half steve just by stopping the bottom staff and letting the top one carry on. You could probably get there from a palm spin as well...

monkeys ate my brain

DentrassiDentrassiGOLD Member
3,044 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia

is that the one knox does in his double vid? not sure what it called, i havent even got around to trying it yet.

i like the idea though. biggrin

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

DentrassiDentrassiGOLD Member
3,044 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia

just had another random idea while at work for a separation

start with bsoh left hand, lean forward a bit, and rolls staffs around right side of neck - about 30o forward from horizontal plane. release one of the staffs, staff A, and let is roll around the back of the neck to your left shoulder. slow this rotation a bit by turning your body to the right side as this happens.
keep the staff B remaining in the left hand near the right side of the neck while this happens. if you time rotating your body right, this should remain smooth.

when the staff A reaches the left shoulder, release staff B on to the right shoulder. if you continue turning your body to the right, you should be able to simultaneously globetrott both staffs to the corresponding hands.
or you could stop turning and to something quarter steveish with both hands.

thats just a random idea i wanted to get down. i wont be able to try it till the weekend when my broken contact staff frown gets fixed smile


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

mechmechBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom

i knwo its a lil sad, but i saw a lovely move being done by prophet and strugz on a beach in cornwall with doubles...

it starts with staffs on either side pointsing out from body

then use a leaning forward neck roll to get the staff to roll over you back twice, and done your opposite arm,

while with teh 2nd staff pass that across under your body in your hands,

this is in stugz staff vd i just noiced as i write this! its called strugz n staff

ther are a few other moves im thinking of as well, you should see some of banjamens stuff ist swell nice and sweet!


Step (el-nombrie)

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