Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:This thread is nothing like it was ment to be, it was ment to be about support, and the fact that all of us get scared @ some time, about the beauty of the fire and the buzz it gives us, why we really do it... and connecting to other fields and areas of the fire. For example... some can do "mind games" on fire, i would'nt endorse it though.



And the fact there are alot of new moves coming out (and i know your not stoopid) but they are impossible to perform on fire (straight jackets). And yes, there are always exceptions, and we need to push it so straight jackets and mind games are possible, but its madness to advocate that we can all do it, when anyone can get hit in the mad get tangled, and go down in a ring of fire.



Other than that... there are actually people who are really scared of the fire... and need support to build confidence...its easy to have a bad 1 and get totally put off (and most likely this is not you) *happened to me afew times*



I just think if you having trouble it should be ok to say so...

EDITED_BY: Dragon07 (1080178466)


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Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:mmmmmmmmmmmmmm fire.
I like fire.
Half the reason i play with poi.
My note for newbs... learn a move before you try it with fire. no, really. learn it first.
If the poi head hits you or glances off of your body while alight, generally you don't even feel the heat & dont get burnt(like most wraps). But, any longer than that split-second glance & it hurts... for minutes afterwards, sometimes more.
wraps MUST be practiced. they can be misleading. you can learn a new wrap & get it perfectly correct 5 times in a row without trouble. You do it again & you might leave abit too much chain this time & the poi wraps around your leg & gets hooked on the chain & sits on your skin...... HURTAGE expect blisters.
practice is your friend :-)

Personally, when people ask me "aren't you scared of it burning you" i just shrug it off cause i have practiced the moves alot & dont do moves i'm not very good at with fire. I have had my share of glances & generally haven't been hurt. But i've seen what can happen when things go wrong...
There is allways that bit of fear when I try a new move with fire for the first time. I know i've practiced & can do it 10 times over without a mistake but i'm still nervous.
but then again it's also that fear which drives me to do more. I like that feeling... it feels goooooood. adrenaline is my friend. ubblol


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:I can't really think of any moves, other than the obvious "Hold the poi for 12 minute" things. Throws, hyperloops, grabs (Grabbing and throwing your poi head, short amount of contact but easily doable with fire), wraps... all "safe" with enough practice. Obviously the risk is increased as you add flames in to the mix, but could you please elaborate on what moves you deem unsafe with fwirlage?

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:I take it you'v neva had the "initation" flaming metal to the eye, pretty much anything is dangerous, some things more than others, especially now people are talking things like : suicides, straight jackets, double neck wraps, but even basic stuff can go badly wrong, ie b-fly wraps, btb ttn and most often for me just your basic recoil wrap can sometimes get tangled.

And a simple thing that alot of peeps misunderstand, if you dont drain/ shake/ disperse excess fuel before spin, and you "glance" yourself...you can turn into an instant human fireball. (depending on clothing) Not that likely, but i'v seen alot of people set themselves on fire like that.

Even just random accidents, like it getting tangled in your hair. Or not checking equipment before burn and your poi head flys off!!! Basic stuff really, usually you take care of most things, but the better you get the more you seem to think "i dont need to..."


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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:I'd have to agree with Millenium - I can't think of any moves (within reason) that can't be done with fire.



Also, I'd like to stick up for HoP and say that is a VERY Health & Safety concious site. Everyone on here is very up on their fire awareness and everyone practices what they preach. Occasionally you get the odd moron on the site, but they don't last long smile



I don't think we *should* be scared of fire. Respect it, don't fear it. If you're scared of it, you'll be nervous and tense and that is when accidents happen. If you are aware of the fire, and you spin within your abilities you'll be more comfortable and spin more naturally.

Everyone messes up at some stage, regardless of how good a spinner you are. If you're scared of the fire you'll panic in a tangle and pull away, jerk your arms/body and all this often achieves is catapulting the poi back into you or worsening the tangle. If you're merely aware of the tangle you can control the poi into a safe stop and slowly and methodically untangle yourself.

The worst thing that's ever happened to me is a double handcuff wrap tangle which ended up with both poi about 2cm from my hands. It looks nasty, and in theory it is - but I just looked at it, thought "bugger" and just shrugged them off my hands with nothing more than a lot less hand-hair smile



It's the same theory we've been taught at Kung Fu - when we're sparring or doing sticky-hands - if someone throws a punch at your face the worse thing to do is panic, close your eyes and just try and pull away from it - if you just acknowledge the situation you can figure out the correct block/counter and safe yourself from a beating smile



All this only comes with repeated practice mind you - which is the one of the things this site strongly encourages



Kids - Don't light up until you're ready smile


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Moeahi
member

Member Since: 24th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3
Posted:Firstly it's really interesting to hear everyone's responses to Dragon07's post, personally I thought the post was more about the awesome power and spirit of the fire; which we all seem to love! smile However no matter how experienced or new we are to spinning fire, I think all of us have moments of fear and adrenalin.
This is something that should be cool to talk about... that way if anyone is having an issue with fear or nervousness they know most of us can relate to whats happening with them.

Everyone seem's pretty clued up on safety here but lets face it, the only way to erase all risk is to put out the fire! I don't think we want to do that do we?!

Maybe the moves we're doing aren't the point...


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:A usefull post I found on here which is probably buried round here somewhere concerned doing wrist / arm wraps.

Eventually the head will go all the way round the arm and gets tangled on chain. It can be a bit frightening when this happens and there's fire stuck on you.

Don't panic, let go of the handle and go for the head, pushing it away from you to the floor.

I found this advice usefull the first time it happened to me. ubbangel


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Cody
Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 556
Posted:For me fire performing runs in the family.... well not really, my dad was a bull rider. He would not let me do it so I found something equal. Bull riders have a saying, "You allways need to have at least a little fear." That fear keeps you focused, and it's the root of the excitement. Fire is never safe, but it can be controlled. You have to come to terms with the fact that you will get burned if you spin fire. To verrying degrees of course. It's like riding a motorcycle, it's not a matter of if you crash, it's a matter of when and how badly.

I've said before, the reason I spin poi is because of the fire. My inventions focus on how to use more fire. If there's something out there that makes for better/more fire, I'm on it. biggrin I have a healthy intimate relationsip with fire, and I get burned often. Usually just little burns, but I've gotten more serious burns and hospital time. I would not say I'm not afraid of fire, but I definatelly know what i'm getting myself in to. wink


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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thor
thor

Flaming Lesbian
Location: Portland, Oregon
Member Since: 19th Feb 2004
Total posts: 181
Posted:fear is an emotion born from ignorance.
respect is born from understanding.

i don't do anything with fire unless i've done it so often with my lead shot tennis balls that i can do it with my eyes closed (literally, i blindfolded myself in the park the other day and did a whole nice routine without seeing the poi, it's alot easier than juggling blindfolded =]).

when i was a little pyro, i thought there were two types of fire, the kind you controlled and the kind that controlled you. now i know that there's only the kind that controlls you, and i'm better because of it.


Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.

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MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:Quote:
I take it you'v neva had the "initation" flaming metal to the eye, pretty much anything is dangerous, some things more than others, especially now people are talking things like : suicides, straight jackets, double neck wraps, but even basic stuff can go badly wrong, ie b-fly wraps, btb ttn and most often for me just your basic recoil wrap can sometimes get tangled.

And a simple thing that alot of peeps misunderstand, if you dont drain/ shake/ disperse excess fuel before spin, and you "glance" yourself...you can turn into an instant human fireball. (depending on clothing) Not that likely, but i'v seen alot of people set themselves on fire like that.

Even just random accidents, like it getting tangled in your hair. Or not checking equipment before burn and your poi head flys off!!! Basic stuff really, usually you take care of most things, but the better you get the more you seem to think "i dont need to..."



I understand and respect what you're saying, but I personally don't agree with it. There is a *HUGE* difference between high risk and unsafe. A 3 beat weave is high risk for some people, and a double neck through wrap is low risk for some people, and a 3 beat weave is low risk for most people, and a double neck through wrap is high risk for most people ubblol I guess my point is that you can argue against certain moves until you go blue in the face, but it is a personal decision each spinner needs to make with information they've gathered from their own experiences, and from others.

I don't think it's fair to say a suicide or handcuffs or [insert move here] is unsafe. It may be unsafe for you, but that is far different than it being unsafe in general. "Flaming metal in the eye" isn't a move, it is the result of you doing a move you were unprepared for, or you just had a freak accident in a move you were prepared for. Any one of us could mess up a 3 beat weave one time out of 14 billion. That doesn't mean we should stick to 2 beat weave.

Whether you are lighting a candle or spinning fire poi, when something is set on fire, the danger automatically increases. Obviously if we all wanted to be safe instead of sorry, and do everything without any reasonable chance of things going wrong, we wouldn't soak things in volatile and carcinogenic fluids in the first place. But we do, and it is each spinner's responsibility to understand and respect their limits.

Thank you though for making this topic - I think we all need reminders every once in a while that we aren't God, we aren't immortal, and any one of us could die tomorrow doing what we do.


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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:i think that most people realise double neck wraps are insane. ubbloco i havent had a newbie to even ask me to teach them with practice poi, let along with fire. biggrin



i do agree in parts with most points - sure the more experience guys know there limits with safety, but installing that ability to judge safety in newbies is also important.

but how do we go about making everyone as safety conscious as us.



i already do several things

1) several pages of story of f*&k ups - what went wrong and why

2) personal experiences - what i have seen, and has happened to me

here

3) making spin gatherings a constructive learning environment where noone is afraid to ask question.



it seems to work well. theres probably a few other things i do, but they elude me at present.



take care all. hug hug hug

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1080098163)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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