Forums > Social Chat > On not having kids...
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Hopefully this will serve to entertain someone who is dreadfully bored at work. Unfortunately, it's an extremely long post and has little to no point at all. Do with it what you will. And if you're not dreadfully bored and stuck at work with nothing productive to do... for the love of God, click on another post.
Every now and then I have a deep thought that I feel like throwing at HoP... just to see how it bounces back.
Growing up I'd always loved working with kids. I still enjoy playing with 'toys' but more importantly, I've always had a very protective personality when it comes to folks younger than me. In High School I remember all of my friends telling me how great a dad I would be and I was looking forward to having kids. But recently something changed.
I've been really happy the last few years. I've gained an optimism in life. I'm having a great time. I know that some things suck in life, but I've been enjoying the little things more and appreciating the time that I'm alive. After breaking up with my most recent girlfriend I had a very strange sense of relief. I realized that I didn't want to go down that path anymore. I'd recently started thinking about kids as (what my buddy calls) "A huge administrative hassle."
Ya'see, I already have TONS of fulfilling daily interactions with kids. I teach High School for those of you who don't know. I love my interactions with my students. But I also love the fact that, when the day is done, I can go HOME. I feel that because I am a teacher I UNDERSTAND a bit more of what it's like to be around kids all day. I know it's different having MY kids... I know I'd be a great Dad. I have infinite patience with children and am utterly responsible. I get along great with kids and would gladly give my life to save one. Unfortunately, just because you'd be good at something, doesn't mean you should do it.
But then I started asking myself: How great would it be if I didn't have to have kids? How great would it be if I found someone who just wanted to be with me... and we could be together and do silly romantic things all the time without being bound to the overwhelming responsibility of having a kid? I DEFINITELY want to get married and am utterly romantic at heart. The thought of actually meeting a woman who DIDN'T want to have kids was really exciting. In fact, the idea that I didn't have to have kids at all made me really happy. And that thought within it self sealed the deal:
I don't want kids.
You'd think that'd be the end of a very long post, but no... what I was really surprised by was how much of a freak that decision has made me. I had no idea. I even looked at the data from the 2000 census. 86% of Americans between 35 and 45 already had kids. Add another few percent for those who have their kids above 35 and we're looking at like 90% of the general population who will have kids before they die. Figure a low estimate that 5% of the general population is gay and doesn't want kids (understanding that there are gay families but they'd be in the 86%) and maybe 5% have fertility issues that keep them childless and chose not to adopt. So who does that leave me to marry and not have kids with?
Nobody.
I know that a few of you are going to chime in and say "I don't want kids either" but you're wrong. You'll meet the right guy/girl, graduate from High School (
) and then change your mind.
And this crosses all socioeconomic boundaries as well. My totally crazy, drug-addct, psycho-pyromaniac acquaintances are like "Dude, you don't want kids? That's messed up!!"
I really gotta wrap up this ultralong post so I'll just throw some points out there:
1) It's sad how many people instinctively 'settle down' and have kids without thinking of the huge repercussions or even contemplate the OPTION of not having kids.
2) I'm AMAZED by how FEW people chose NOT to have kids. The statistic that only 14% of 35 - 45 year olds DIDN'T already have kids TOTALLY floored me.
OK, thanks for listening.
Feedback? Thoughs? Drawings? Interpretive Dance?
Hopefully this will serve to entertain someone who is dreadfully bored at work. Unfortunately, it's an extremely long post and has little to no point at all. Do with it what you will. And if you're not dreadfully bored and stuck at work with nothing productive to do... for the love of God, click on another post.
Every now and then I have a deep thought that I feel like throwing at HoP... just to see how it bounces back.
Growing up I'd always loved working with kids. I still enjoy playing with 'toys' but more importantly, I've always had a very protective personality when it comes to folks younger than me. In High School I remember all of my friends telling me how great a dad I would be and I was looking forward to having kids. But recently something changed.
I've been really happy the last few years. I've gained an optimism in life. I'm having a great time. I know that some things suck in life, but I've been enjoying the little things more and appreciating the time that I'm alive. After breaking up with my most recent girlfriend I had a very strange sense of relief. I realized that I didn't want to go down that path anymore. I'd recently started thinking about kids as (what my buddy calls) "A huge administrative hassle."
Ya'see, I already have TONS of fulfilling daily interactions with kids. I teach High School for those of you who don't know. I love my interactions with my students. But I also love the fact that, when the day is done, I can go HOME. I feel that because I am a teacher I UNDERSTAND a bit more of what it's like to be around kids all day. I know it's different having MY kids... I know I'd be a great Dad. I have infinite patience with children and am utterly responsible. I get along great with kids and would gladly give my life to save one. Unfortunately, just because you'd be good at something, doesn't mean you should do it.
But then I started asking myself: How great would it be if I didn't have to have kids? How great would it be if I found someone who just wanted to be with me... and we could be together and do silly romantic things all the time without being bound to the overwhelming responsibility of having a kid? I DEFINITELY want to get married and am utterly romantic at heart. The thought of actually meeting a woman who DIDN'T want to have kids was really exciting. In fact, the idea that I didn't have to have kids at all made me really happy. And that thought within it self sealed the deal:
I don't want kids.
You'd think that'd be the end of a very long post, but no... what I was really surprised by was how much of a freak that decision has made me. I had no idea. I even looked at the data from the 2000 census. 86% of Americans between 35 and 45 already had kids. Add another few percent for those who have their kids above 35 and we're looking at like 90% of the general population who will have kids before they die. Figure a low estimate that 5% of the general population is gay and doesn't want kids (understanding that there are gay families but they'd be in the 86%) and maybe 5% have fertility issues that keep them childless and chose not to adopt. So who does that leave me to marry and not have kids with?
Nobody.
I know that a few of you are going to chime in and say "I don't want kids either" but you're wrong. You'll meet the right guy/girl, graduate from High School (
) and then change your mind.And this crosses all socioeconomic boundaries as well. My totally crazy, drug-addct, psycho-pyromaniac acquaintances are like "Dude, you don't want kids? That's messed up!!"
I really gotta wrap up this ultralong post so I'll just throw some points out there:
1) It's sad how many people instinctively 'settle down' and have kids without thinking of the huge repercussions or even contemplate the OPTION of not having kids.
2) I'm AMAZED by how FEW people chose NOT to have kids. The statistic that only 14% of 35 - 45 year olds DIDN'T already have kids TOTALLY floored me.
OK, thanks for listening.
Feedback? Thoughs? Drawings? Interpretive Dance?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
horses!
for courses!
neieeeigh!
horses!
for courses!
neieeeigh!
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
If you can't have kids, have puppies!
If you can't have kids, have puppies!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
first of all, if you think that's a long post, you ain't seen nothing yet
secondly, i want kids, but not until i'm in my 30s at least. There's so much i want to do in the world which would be irresponsible (in my view) to do with young kids, ie living in other countries and moving every few years.
thirdly, i know couples who don't have kids. There's one on our street in their 50s who've never had kids. They had good/demanding jobs, retired early (not having kids saves a small fortune) and now travel lots of enjoy culture. They are, it has to be said, completely obsessive and protective over their 2 cats like substitute toddlers, but i think there's something to be said in favour of not having kids.
So, do whatever you want, there's billions of people in the world, i'm sure you can find one who meets your criteria, and the chances of you finding yours are easier than my critera
first of all, if you think that's a long post, you ain't seen nothing yet
secondly, i want kids, but not until i'm in my 30s at least. There's so much i want to do in the world which would be irresponsible (in my view) to do with young kids, ie living in other countries and moving every few years.
thirdly, i know couples who don't have kids. There's one on our street in their 50s who've never had kids. They had good/demanding jobs, retired early (not having kids saves a small fortune) and now travel lots of enjoy culture. They are, it has to be said, completely obsessive and protective over their 2 cats like substitute toddlers, but i think there's something to be said in favour of not having kids.
So, do whatever you want, there's billions of people in the world, i'm sure you can find one who meets your criteria, and the chances of you finding yours are easier than my critera
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
excellent post NYC.
i've actually had this same debate and confusion within myself. i was a child therapist for a number of years and decided to move away from that. i do well with kids, i love my niece and nephews, but children overwhelm me anymore. i don't know when it changed or if it never was there to begin with and i just ignored it. but i have this notion that i don't want kids. i'm not positive about that, but i feel incredibly strong about it. as a feminist i've also had the debate on whether the need to have children is biological or sociological. i think it's different for everyone, but i think it's important for each woman (in particular) to actively look at that question and answer it for themselves first before blindly following the status quo.
one thing i have felt firmly about for over 10 years now is that if i do decide to have kids, i would like to adopt. i think there are too many children in the world who don't have homes, and i can love any child as much as my own biological child. do i still have that desire to have my own biological child? somewhat. and if i decide to have children, perhaps i would do both. i don't know. it would also depend on my partner. but my family was on the more difficult end of an adoption, and the family who adopted my nephew gave us the wonderful gift of opening their family to us. and i want to give that back to a birthmother who is struggling with her decision.
excellent post NYC.
i've actually had this same debate and confusion within myself. i was a child therapist for a number of years and decided to move away from that. i do well with kids, i love my niece and nephews, but children overwhelm me anymore. i don't know when it changed or if it never was there to begin with and i just ignored it. but i have this notion that i don't want kids. i'm not positive about that, but i feel incredibly strong about it. as a feminist i've also had the debate on whether the need to have children is biological or sociological. i think it's different for everyone, but i think it's important for each woman (in particular) to actively look at that question and answer it for themselves first before blindly following the status quo.
one thing i have felt firmly about for over 10 years now is that if i do decide to have kids, i would like to adopt. i think there are too many children in the world who don't have homes, and i can love any child as much as my own biological child. do i still have that desire to have my own biological child? somewhat. and if i decide to have children, perhaps i would do both. i don't know. it would also depend on my partner. but my family was on the more difficult end of an adoption, and the family who adopted my nephew gave us the wonderful gift of opening their family to us. and i want to give that back to a birthmother who is struggling with her decision.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
I don't want a title.
940 posts
940 posts
Posted:
Well.... I've been out of high school (and out of college) for a while now.. and I still don't want to have kids. My brothers tell me that no one will ever want to marry me, because of this, but it's still not a choice I'm willing to make. I might someday change my mind, but I doubt it.
I don't want the pain of childbirth.
My mother had 3 c-sections and gestational diabetes. No thank you.
I have a brother 14 years younger than me, and have had enough of child-rearing for a lifetime already.
I want to always be able to run off with my sig-oth, or have sex on the living room floor, to go out at night, to curse as I please in my own home, to use my salary for what I want to buy.
Also, I'm too proud to have children. We each have limited resources in life. Caring for a child uses up a huge portion of these resources. I'd rather use my resources for other ends. To have a child would be to say that somewhere down the line, someone of my line will do something great, so I invest my resources in their potential. I prefer to think that I am what all my ancestors have spent their resources on.
Well.... I've been out of high school (and out of college) for a while now.. and I still don't want to have kids. My brothers tell me that no one will ever want to marry me, because of this, but it's still not a choice I'm willing to make. I might someday change my mind, but I doubt it.
I don't want the pain of childbirth.
My mother had 3 c-sections and gestational diabetes. No thank you.
I have a brother 14 years younger than me, and have had enough of child-rearing for a lifetime already.
I want to always be able to run off with my sig-oth, or have sex on the living room floor, to go out at night, to curse as I please in my own home, to use my salary for what I want to buy.
Also, I'm too proud to have children. We each have limited resources in life. Caring for a child uses up a huge portion of these resources. I'd rather use my resources for other ends. To have a child would be to say that somewhere down the line, someone of my line will do something great, so I invest my resources in their potential. I prefer to think that I am what all my ancestors have spent their resources on.
E pluribus unum, baby.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
where did you say you live again regyt?
NYC, you listening?
where did you say you live again regyt?
NYC, you listening?
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Heh, I used to want kids, but I decided I would only be able to do one of two things. Sacrifice my self entirely (well...50-60 hour work weeks...) to work and have time for a wife, or just get a humble job and never amount to anything incredible.
Some may argue 'you can do both though...' well you're wrong. I don't want to. It's all or nothing and I choose nothing...
Heh, I used to want kids, but I decided I would only be able to do one of two things. Sacrifice my self entirely (well...50-60 hour work weeks...) to work and have time for a wife, or just get a humble job and never amount to anything incredible.
Some may argue 'you can do both though...' well you're wrong. I don't want to. It's all or nothing and I choose nothing...
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
I don't want a title.
940 posts
940 posts
Posted:
Hey! Stop that! Stop offering me to each other! ::sniffle:: It makes me feel unwanted.
Hey! Stop that! Stop offering me to each other! ::sniffle:: It makes me feel unwanted.
E pluribus unum, baby.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
sorry.
You need to apply through bluecat if you're interested in NYC anyway, there's a lengthy application procedure.
sorry.
You need to apply through bluecat if you're interested in NYC anyway, there's a lengthy application procedure.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
If anything, you should feel wanted for that...someone wants to give you to someone else who might WANT you ^.^'
If anything, you should feel wanted for that...someone wants to give you to someone else who might WANT you ^.^'
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Well, in attaining happiness i guess what you are not doing is sometimes just as important as what you are.
wether you want to start a family or not, just be happy with your decision is the lesson i see in it.
happiness is the whole point of it all is it not?
:grins :P sillly:
Well, in attaining happiness i guess what you are not doing is sometimes just as important as what you are.
wether you want to start a family or not, just be happy with your decision is the lesson i see in it.
happiness is the whole point of it all is it not?
:grins :P sillly:
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
It's so funny. I'm like NYC and yet so different.
I am training to be a pediatrician. I am not the least bit resentful if I am pulled from my bed by a sick child on my service at 3AM. It's not just patience; I have a deep and powerful love of children. I am happiest when I get to see them every day, even if they're sick. A sick child who I am helping doesn't bug me. I care about them. My heart melts when I see a baby, I grin when I watch children playing, it makes me feel warm in the heart to watch teenagers becoming adults, discovering themselves, and striking out on their own.
I love kids.
I'm used to being wakened in the middle of the night, to having no free time, to having enormous responsibilities resting on my shoulders. Once I'm through with my training, in my mid-30's, and my workload at work drops, I'd love to have kids. And yes, I will be an amazing dad. I know I will. Everyone tells me that.
And yet, perhaps cruelly, life threw me a curveball... Here I want what almost every straight man has available if he so desires it, and I can't just have it. Oh sure, I can adopt or do surrogacy and all that fun stuff, but in this country, the environment is so hostile, and I have to find a life partner who is willing to go through it with me. And the laws break down in emergencies, which invariably happen.
I don't want any of you to feel guilty. Kids, like many things, are deep and personal decisions. But I want them so badly. And it's going to be so difficult.
Wanna be gay, NYC? I'll trade ya!
It's so funny. I'm like NYC and yet so different.
I am training to be a pediatrician. I am not the least bit resentful if I am pulled from my bed by a sick child on my service at 3AM. It's not just patience; I have a deep and powerful love of children. I am happiest when I get to see them every day, even if they're sick. A sick child who I am helping doesn't bug me. I care about them. My heart melts when I see a baby, I grin when I watch children playing, it makes me feel warm in the heart to watch teenagers becoming adults, discovering themselves, and striking out on their own.
I love kids.
I'm used to being wakened in the middle of the night, to having no free time, to having enormous responsibilities resting on my shoulders. Once I'm through with my training, in my mid-30's, and my workload at work drops, I'd love to have kids. And yes, I will be an amazing dad. I know I will. Everyone tells me that.
And yet, perhaps cruelly, life threw me a curveball... Here I want what almost every straight man has available if he so desires it, and I can't just have it. Oh sure, I can adopt or do surrogacy and all that fun stuff, but in this country, the environment is so hostile, and I have to find a life partner who is willing to go through it with me. And the laws break down in emergencies, which invariably happen.
I don't want any of you to feel guilty. Kids, like many things, are deep and personal decisions. But I want them so badly. And it's going to be so difficult.
Wanna be gay, NYC? I'll trade ya!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
A perth girl gone walkabout...
396 posts
Location: Back home in Perth WA, Australia
A perth girl gone walkabout...
396 posts
Location: Back home in Perth WA, Australia
Posted:
I think, if anything, that i view having a kid as a project (which in itself is probably a worry!), I'd like to have one (and only one!!) one day to mold and train, and teach wonderful things to and take to marvelous places. Rather like a puppy, but one that won't hump strangers legs.
There are so many screwed up kids out there, I want to make a perfect one, interesting and self confident (and of course, a firetwirler!), well versed in everything, and in the end produce something better than myself!
But what I'd probably end up with a kid who has a control freak mother, a busy timetable of classes, and is estranged from it's peers due to an "interesting" upbringing.... Um... Maybe i shouldn't have a kid ever after all...
.... perhaps time will tell.... Need to find the perfect guy before i can have the perfect kid....
EDITED_BY: Melza (1074573105)
I think, if anything, that i view having a kid as a project (which in itself is probably a worry!), I'd like to have one (and only one!!) one day to mold and train, and teach wonderful things to and take to marvelous places. Rather like a puppy, but one that won't hump strangers legs.
There are so many screwed up kids out there, I want to make a perfect one, interesting and self confident (and of course, a firetwirler!), well versed in everything, and in the end produce something better than myself!
But what I'd probably end up with a kid who has a control freak mother, a busy timetable of classes, and is estranged from it's peers due to an "interesting" upbringing.... Um... Maybe i shouldn't have a kid ever after all...
.... perhaps time will tell.... Need to find the perfect guy before i can have the perfect kid....
EDITED_BY: Melza (1074573105)
I smile because i have no idea whats going on!! 
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
well of course another fab post from NYC, thanks for making me go home late because I wanted to type this reply
I think the other point to add to the two you make at the end of your post, is why, as a mature woman who has decided not to have children (the figure is higher in Australia - getting closer to 25%), is it other women who assume I don't know my own mind, and tell me that I will change my mind one day? Why can't the decision not to breed be respected?
as the decision to have children is by those who choose not to
outta here
well of course another fab post from NYC, thanks for making me go home late because I wanted to type this reply
I think the other point to add to the two you make at the end of your post, is why, as a mature woman who has decided not to have children (the figure is higher in Australia - getting closer to 25%), is it other women who assume I don't know my own mind, and tell me that I will change my mind one day? Why can't the decision not to breed be respected?
as the decision to have children is by those who choose not to outta here
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
very much agree. i get that argument all the time. it's incredibly frustrating
Quote:
why is it other women who assume I don't know my own mind, and tell me that I will change my mind one day? Why can't the decision not to breed be respected?
very much agree. i get that argument all the time. it's incredibly frustrating
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
member
97 posts
Location: Australia
97 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
I have a lot of people that I talk to (family, friends and work colleagues) who are constantly telling me that I will change my mind and want kids....
What I don't tell them is why I don't want kids....
I have a cleft lip and partial palate (known as a fistula of the mouth), I have the gene that I can pass on to my children if I have any.
My childhood was miserable. I lived most of my life going in and out of hospitals and because I was so weird looking I was given absolute hell while I was growing up.
There is NO WAY in HELL that I would put any kid through what I went through.
That is the reason I am not having kids....so if those nosey people really think they know what I want they should think again.
I have a lot of people that I talk to (family, friends and work colleagues) who are constantly telling me that I will change my mind and want kids....
What I don't tell them is why I don't want kids....
I have a cleft lip and partial palate (known as a fistula of the mouth), I have the gene that I can pass on to my children if I have any.
My childhood was miserable. I lived most of my life going in and out of hospitals and because I was so weird looking I was given absolute hell while I was growing up.
There is NO WAY in HELL that I would put any kid through what I went through.
That is the reason I am not having kids....so if those nosey people really think they know what I want they should think again.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Your outlook and reasoning is sound. I guess I never really did consider not having kids properly before. It seems to me that thinking about it is very important. Very often without the luxury of prior thought.
Unfortunetly most people can have children, even if they don't deserve them.
Perhaps the reason why people cling onto having children is that it's the only thing in our lives that we know is right. All the biologgy is there, all religions agree with it, all other animals do it, we are so confused as a species as to why we are here otherwise.
Another thing that occures to me is some people seem to have kids because they are unhappy or unloved and feel that children can complete them in some way (an opinion-leave me alone).
What you talk of reminds me of the opposite, someone who is happy with their life and is able to think of themselves and what not having children can bring to you.
The fact we live mortal lives may also mean that on some (perhaps pschological) level it is a way for us to live for ever. Not only genetically but through our personalities too. Although we affect everybody around us, our friends coleagues etc, our children recieve way more of us than anybody else....in theory.
I know I'm the only one in my family who could carry on my family name and my grandfather was very happy about that fact before he passed away last year.
Like Melza, I see it as an opportunity to improve upon myself and contribute positively to the future. Children who are better people than I am to fight the side of good in this world of opposites.
I once heard that it is impossible to understand the love that a parent has for a child untill you actually experience it. I'm not concerned about it and I certainly don't plan on any soon but deep down I'm thinking......yea.....that'd be really really groovy.
Your outlook and reasoning is sound. I guess I never really did consider not having kids properly before. It seems to me that thinking about it is very important. Very often without the luxury of prior thought.
Unfortunetly most people can have children, even if they don't deserve them.
Perhaps the reason why people cling onto having children is that it's the only thing in our lives that we know is right. All the biologgy is there, all religions agree with it, all other animals do it, we are so confused as a species as to why we are here otherwise.
Another thing that occures to me is some people seem to have kids because they are unhappy or unloved and feel that children can complete them in some way (an opinion-leave me alone
). What you talk of reminds me of the opposite, someone who is happy with their life and is able to think of themselves and what not having children can bring to you.
The fact we live mortal lives may also mean that on some (perhaps pschological) level it is a way for us to live for ever. Not only genetically but through our personalities too. Although we affect everybody around us, our friends coleagues etc, our children recieve way more of us than anybody else....in theory.
I know I'm the only one in my family who could carry on my family name and my grandfather was very happy about that fact before he passed away last year.
Like Melza, I see it as an opportunity to improve upon myself and contribute positively to the future. Children who are better people than I am to fight the side of good in this world of opposites.
I once heard that it is impossible to understand the love that a parent has for a child untill you actually experience it. I'm not concerned about it and I certainly don't plan on any soon but deep down I'm thinking......yea.....that'd be really really groovy.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I really don't know.
I'm split on the issue.
On the not having children side I agree with what you're saying. Add to that the old argument of "the world is a crappy place right now. Why bring a child into it?".
However, in the past I've faced the very real possibility of having a child, so I've thought about this a bit.
There is a strong desire to try and raise good, wise children as a legacy of my own life and because I know I'd love my kids deeply.
Also I feel that yes, this world is crappy, and one way to change it is to introduce good people to it in the hope they'll affect it.
But I'm still young, and the fates still have a lot to put me through before I have to make this decision again. So who knows. NYC - If I do have kids, you can be a godfather
I really don't know.
I'm split on the issue.
On the not having children side I agree with what you're saying. Add to that the old argument of "the world is a crappy place right now. Why bring a child into it?".
However, in the past I've faced the very real possibility of having a child, so I've thought about this a bit.
There is a strong desire to try and raise good, wise children as a legacy of my own life and because I know I'd love my kids deeply.
Also I feel that yes, this world is crappy, and one way to change it is to introduce good people to it in the hope they'll affect it.
But I'm still young, and the fates still have a lot to put me through before I have to make this decision again. So who knows. NYC - If I do have kids, you can be a godfather
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
Kids..hmmm.
That is one decision that I won't make while I'm still single. At this point in my life, all I know is that I don't want to be a single mother. I also haven't given up on raising my own yet, but I do want a guy around to help with that. I think my decision to raise one/some would be dependent upon the character of the guy and what life with him would be like both with kids and without them. There are some guys out there which I just don't think would make great dads but yet are still wonderful people.
One thing I do know is that I would happily give another one up for adoption. Pregnancy agrees with my body (at least it did 11 years ago). I also like knowing that I am giving something small (at least to me) to people who can't for one reason or another have their own, and in doing so am making them happy. That is definitely worth it.
Kids..hmmm.
That is one decision that I won't make while I'm still single. At this point in my life, all I know is that I don't want to be a single mother. I also haven't given up on raising my own yet, but I do want a guy around to help with that. I think my decision to raise one/some would be dependent upon the character of the guy and what life with him would be like both with kids and without them. There are some guys out there which I just don't think would make great dads but yet are still wonderful people.
One thing I do know is that I would happily give another one up for adoption. Pregnancy agrees with my body (at least it did 11 years ago). I also like knowing that I am giving something small (at least to me) to people who can't for one reason or another have their own, and in doing so am making them happy. That is definitely worth it.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
I'm a 'don't know' as well, but for different reasons than Dom. I personally feel the human world has always been a messed up place - at least in the last 50 centuries or so. I also think that humans are also starting to get a clue - or at least a few of them are. I don't think the future is so dark - unless only the idiots reproduce that is.
I also am of like mind with Melza. I am interested in having offspring as a sort of experiment. But I'm quite sure I will get something totally different than I anticiate from it.
At the age of 34, I am beginning to feel like I might begin to be ready for a child. I might even begin to be ready to put up with another human being long enough to do the other half of the parenting. Problem is, I haven't met her yet, or if I have, she hasn't made herself apparent to me yet. I figure I would like at least 5 years of really getting to know and enjoy time with the woman who becomes the mother of my children before we do have children. This puts me at about 40 years old then, even if I meet her this year, which I doubt.
Do I want to start having kids at 40? My father was 43 when I was born. He was a good father, but died when I was in my early 20s, just as I was actually starting to become friends with him. Will I do the same to my childen? Probably. Given the life span of males in my family tree, I doubt I'll ever see grandchildren.
But then all this brings me to the point that NYC initially brought into my head. 90% of people may reproduce before they die, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of them didn't intend to. It may not be so hard to find someone else who doesn't want children to be with as the numbers initially seem to indicate. Of course, that doesn't mean you won't wind up with kids anyway...
And so I have let my philosophy about having childen soften as of late. If they happen, either on purpose or by accident, I will gladly welcome them into my life and do my best to make a unified household with their mother. If they do not come along, then I will have some regrets I think, but will accept those regrets and the choices I made and enjoy the other options that were made availble to me.
I'm a 'don't know' as well, but for different reasons than Dom. I personally feel the human world has always been a messed up place - at least in the last 50 centuries or so. I also think that humans are also starting to get a clue - or at least a few of them are. I don't think the future is so dark - unless only the idiots reproduce that is.
I also am of like mind with Melza. I am interested in having offspring as a sort of experiment. But I'm quite sure I will get something totally different than I anticiate from it.
At the age of 34, I am beginning to feel like I might begin to be ready for a child. I might even begin to be ready to put up with another human being long enough to do the other half of the parenting. Problem is, I haven't met her yet, or if I have, she hasn't made herself apparent to me yet. I figure I would like at least 5 years of really getting to know and enjoy time with the woman who becomes the mother of my children before we do have children. This puts me at about 40 years old then, even if I meet her this year, which I doubt.
Do I want to start having kids at 40? My father was 43 when I was born. He was a good father, but died when I was in my early 20s, just as I was actually starting to become friends with him. Will I do the same to my childen? Probably. Given the life span of males in my family tree, I doubt I'll ever see grandchildren.
But then all this brings me to the point that NYC initially brought into my head. 90% of people may reproduce before they die, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of them didn't intend to. It may not be so hard to find someone else who doesn't want children to be with as the numbers initially seem to indicate. Of course, that doesn't mean you won't wind up with kids anyway...
And so I have let my philosophy about having childen soften as of late. If they happen, either on purpose or by accident, I will gladly welcome them into my life and do my best to make a unified household with their mother. If they do not come along, then I will have some regrets I think, but will accept those regrets and the choices I made and enjoy the other options that were made availble to me.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Wow! What lovely thoughtful responses! See, I knew throwing it to HoP would be fun and educational.
I knew that there'd be a few of you who didn't buy into the "socialization" arguement of having kids. I'm surprised though that so many people, even people who rebel against other aspects of socialization, don't seem to even see breeding as something that is affected by socialization factors.
Flid - "Your criteria?" You're probably right, I'd guess you're more finiky than even me. But you've got that 'puppy dog' appeal... and don't get too flattered by Regyt. She's one of 'those' girls...
Pounce - I figured we'd be on the same page. As what I consider a feminist, I'm always surprised that other feminist groups don't jump onto this one... There are so many people becoming unfit parents because they think "that's what they're supposed to do once they turn 30."
Immortal Angel - I agree with the "all or nothing" standpoint. I know if I was a dad, I'd give all of myself to my kid. Perhaps another reason why I choose not to be.
Regyt - Um... actually nevermind, I don't want to get slapped on Sunday.
Lightning - I'd gladly be gay. Except for the whole sleeping with men thing. And the not getting to sleep with women thing. Is there some kind of gay I can be while not having to sleep with men and still gettting to have lots of sex with women? I wanna be that kind of gay.
Ade - I get that too... "Once you find the right woman, you'll want to have kids"... but it's wrong. The only thing that you're probably forgetting Ade, is that the people that tell you that probably don't understand any other aspect of your life either. So don't get offended that they don't understand your position on childbirth. I used to get sucked into that arguement. I work in a very conservative environment with people I have little in common with. I usually ignore their advice but sometimes, for some reason, get offended when they say something about an issue I'm passionate about. My buddy always tells me "You never listen to them about anything else, why are you listening to them about that issue?" And she's right.
Deep Sheep - I never bought into this whole "If you've never done it, you wouldn't understand" arguement in any arena. I know many parents who often say "Don't ever have kids!!!" And that makes me even sadder. Those that say "You just need to have kids to understand" are scary and brainwashed. I don't need to kill someone to be able to judge a murderer.
Dom - You really want a Brooklyn Godfather for your kids? Only if I get to do the cool knee breaking stuff. And only if you have kids with Italian accents that call me "Ga Fadda". Then again, I would be a damn good surrogate parent if the situation called for it.
I think adoption is an option. And there are many older kids who will need a home in a few years. If I suddenly decide I want kids in the future, I could just wait 10 years and then adopt a 10 year old.
Thanks for the thoughtful input guys!
Wow! What lovely thoughtful responses! See, I knew throwing it to HoP would be fun and educational.
I knew that there'd be a few of you who didn't buy into the "socialization" arguement of having kids. I'm surprised though that so many people, even people who rebel against other aspects of socialization, don't seem to even see breeding as something that is affected by socialization factors.
Flid - "Your criteria?" You're probably right, I'd guess you're more finiky than even me. But you've got that 'puppy dog' appeal... and don't get too flattered by Regyt. She's one of 'those' girls...
Pounce - I figured we'd be on the same page. As what I consider a feminist, I'm always surprised that other feminist groups don't jump onto this one... There are so many people becoming unfit parents because they think "that's what they're supposed to do once they turn 30."
Immortal Angel - I agree with the "all or nothing" standpoint. I know if I was a dad, I'd give all of myself to my kid. Perhaps another reason why I choose not to be.
Regyt - Um... actually nevermind, I don't want to get slapped on Sunday.
Lightning - I'd gladly be gay. Except for the whole sleeping with men thing. And the not getting to sleep with women thing. Is there some kind of gay I can be while not having to sleep with men and still gettting to have lots of sex with women? I wanna be that kind of gay.
Ade - I get that too... "Once you find the right woman, you'll want to have kids"... but it's wrong. The only thing that you're probably forgetting Ade, is that the people that tell you that probably don't understand any other aspect of your life either. So don't get offended that they don't understand your position on childbirth. I used to get sucked into that arguement. I work in a very conservative environment with people I have little in common with. I usually ignore their advice but sometimes, for some reason, get offended when they say something about an issue I'm passionate about. My buddy always tells me "You never listen to them about anything else, why are you listening to them about that issue?" And she's right.
Deep Sheep - I never bought into this whole "If you've never done it, you wouldn't understand" arguement in any arena. I know many parents who often say "Don't ever have kids!!!" And that makes me even sadder. Those that say "You just need to have kids to understand" are scary and brainwashed. I don't need to kill someone to be able to judge a murderer.
Dom - You really want a Brooklyn Godfather for your kids? Only if I get to do the cool knee breaking stuff. And only if you have kids with Italian accents that call me "Ga Fadda". Then again, I would be a damn good surrogate parent if the situation called for it.
I think adoption is an option. And there are many older kids who will need a home in a few years. If I suddenly decide I want kids in the future, I could just wait 10 years and then adopt a 10 year old.
Thanks for the thoughtful input guys!
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
I'll bet a significant number of those 90% of people did not have their child on purpose. The 30% child pregnancy statistics come to mind.
I love children; I get along with them really good (partially because we think alike). I know I have plenty of love to give. And I know I will be a great dad. Also, I think I want to have children as a form of immortality. My ancestors went through hell to have me, not for my sake, but so that I could have children. It doesn't ever end, it is continuous. And if it does end, what a tragedy!
I also have a keen urge to offset the dumbing down of our society. You see, 3rd generation crackhead welfare families have an average of 5 children, while highly educated upstanding citizens (like me...: ) have an average of ONE child. If that continues, theoretically the world would eventually become populated entirely by crackheads...
So, it is my own personal mission to do my best to offset the dumbing down of the USA.
And I really want to raise little Jedi, so they can grow up and raise little Jedi of their own, and so on, and so forth, thus continuing the circle of life.
My wife wants 4 children, I am cool with that. But we have yet to have even one. We continue to try, but I guess only God knows how many or when or if we ever will have children.
The rest of you can choose to not have kids, that is up to you. But I have been wanting children for many years now, and been without. I may not have been ready financially or even had a wife yet, but the desire has been there. And I hope that soon it will happen.
I have lived a dangerous life. I have come to close to death to many times, and I do not want my line (the line of my ancestors) to end. I am not the accumulation of all my ancestors’ goals, I am simply one link of the chain.
I'll bet a significant number of those 90% of people did not have their child on purpose. The 30% child pregnancy statistics come to mind.
I love children; I get along with them really good (partially because we think alike). I know I have plenty of love to give. And I know I will be a great dad. Also, I think I want to have children as a form of immortality. My ancestors went through hell to have me, not for my sake, but so that I could have children. It doesn't ever end, it is continuous. And if it does end, what a tragedy!
I also have a keen urge to offset the dumbing down of our society. You see, 3rd generation crackhead welfare families have an average of 5 children, while highly educated upstanding citizens (like me...
: ) have an average of ONE child. If that continues, theoretically the world would eventually become populated entirely by crackheads...So, it is my own personal mission to do my best to offset the dumbing down of the USA.
And I really want to raise little Jedi, so they can grow up and raise little Jedi of their own, and so on, and so forth, thus continuing the circle of life.
My wife wants 4 children, I am cool with that. But we have yet to have even one. We continue to try, but I guess only God knows how many or when or if we ever will have children.
The rest of you can choose to not have kids, that is up to you. But I have been wanting children for many years now, and been without. I may not have been ready financially or even had a wife yet, but the desire has been there. And I hope that soon it will happen.
I have lived a dangerous life. I have come to close to death to many times, and I do not want my line (the line of my ancestors) to end. I am not the accumulation of all my ancestors’ goals, I am simply one link of the chain.
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
Hurrah! Someone like me! I am not alone! Praise be the Lord.
I love kids - think they can be great, funny, cute etc but they are too much like hard work and I hope if the selfish desire to breed becomes too much I will be sane enough to think sensibly about it first. Most people I say this too think I am molto strange. Who knows maybe that clock will start ticking and the biological urge to procreate will hit me once again (I had my 'broody' phase at 16 and sensibly ignored it).
I have had people say to me that it is selfish of me not to want kids! Why? Is 1 baby less going to threaten our already over-populated world? Is it selfish of me to want to pursue my life rather than one small being becoming my raison d'etre. I think I would be a good parent but I also think I'd be a good millionaire - does not necessarily mean I will become one
Personally I think its fu@ked that so many people see making babies as essential to their being and if they are unable to do so let the obsession with reproduction take over their lives!
Not wanting kids is not strange in the slightest, although I'm sure if an 'accident' occurred you would love that kid with every fibre of your being.
Celebrate life choices, whatever they may be!
Hurrah! Someone like me! I am not alone! Praise be the Lord.
I love kids - think they can be great, funny, cute etc but they are too much like hard work and I hope if the selfish desire to breed becomes too much I will be sane enough to think sensibly about it first. Most people I say this too think I am molto strange. Who knows maybe that clock will start ticking and the biological urge to procreate will hit me once again (I had my 'broody' phase at 16 and sensibly ignored it).
I have had people say to me that it is selfish of me not to want kids! Why? Is 1 baby less going to threaten our already over-populated world? Is it selfish of me to want to pursue my life rather than one small being becoming my raison d'etre. I think I would be a good parent but I also think I'd be a good millionaire - does not necessarily mean I will become one
Personally I think its fu@ked that so many people see making babies as essential to their being and if they are unable to do so let the obsession with reproduction take over their lives!
Not wanting kids is not strange in the slightest, although I'm sure if an 'accident' occurred you would love that kid with every fibre of your being.
Celebrate life choices, whatever they may be!
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
I don't want a title.
940 posts
940 posts
Posted:
::cough-metrosexual-cough:: That's the kind of gay most of my male friends are. It's fun. They play dress-up with me, but still can flirt with me like they mean it.
Quote:
I'd gladly be gay. Except for the whole sleeping with men thing. And the not getting to sleep with women thing. Is there some kind of gay I can be while not having to sleep with men and still gettting to have lots of sex with women? I wanna be that kind of gay.
::cough-metrosexual-cough:: That's the kind of gay most of my male friends are. It's fun. They play dress-up with me, but still can flirt with me like they mean it.
E pluribus unum, baby.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
I agree and it's hardly my driving reason for how I feel dude.
I was meerly refering to the special bond between a parent and child. I don't think it's something to buy into or to yearn for but I think it's pretty undeniable.....in my opinion. *shrug*
I agree and it's hardly my driving reason for how I feel dude.
I was meerly refering to the special bond between a parent and child. I don't think it's something to buy into or to yearn for but I think it's pretty undeniable.....in my opinion. *shrug*
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Hey, I flirt like I mean it. In fact, flirting with straight girls and being able to completely get away with it without even pissing off their boyfriends is one of the great perks of being gay.
Quote:
::cough-metrosexual-cough:: That's the kind of gay most of my male friends are. It's fun. They play dress-up with me, but still can flirt with me like they mean it.
Hey, I flirt like I mean it. In fact, flirting with straight girls and being able to completely get away with it without even pissing off their boyfriends is one of the great perks of being gay.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
No, no... no metrosexuality for me. I'm still watching football and I'm not matching my belt to my shoes.
And I'm surprised that there's this "My DNA is so blessed that I owe it to the human race to smear the face of the earth with it" philosophy. But then again, we are dealing with firespinner ego.
Also, in response to Dan's comment. If you adopted a welfare kid wouldn't you be doing MORE to offset the ignorance than by just having your own baby to cancel out the number of uneducated kids? Clearly it's better for society if disadvantaged orphans are raised in advantaged homes than if we just encourage those more fortunate families to have more kids so that the disadvantaged orphans will be less significant statistically.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much but this but I find "Because I am better than most, I am doing the world a favor by breeding" a bit troubling... if not utterly egocentric.
"My superior sperm must impregnate many beautiful women or the world is DOOOOMED!"
Is that really why some chose to have kids?
No, no... no metrosexuality for me. I'm still watching football and I'm not matching my belt to my shoes.
And I'm surprised that there's this "My DNA is so blessed that I owe it to the human race to smear the face of the earth with it" philosophy. But then again, we are dealing with firespinner ego.
Also, in response to Dan's comment. If you adopted a welfare kid wouldn't you be doing MORE to offset the ignorance than by just having your own baby to cancel out the number of uneducated kids? Clearly it's better for society if disadvantaged orphans are raised in advantaged homes than if we just encourage those more fortunate families to have more kids so that the disadvantaged orphans will be less significant statistically.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much but this but I find "Because I am better than most, I am doing the world a favor by breeding" a bit troubling... if not utterly egocentric.
"My superior sperm must impregnate many beautiful women or the world is DOOOOMED!"
Is that really why some chose to have kids?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
excellent points NYC....reminded me of some thing in a book i read, Woman: An Intimate Geography by Natalie Angier (it's actually a fantastic book on female physiology written in a way that is clever and easy to understand)
sorry, i'm going to bore you with some quotes now (tho they are funny)
"Some experts have argued that natural selection has given women a lower sex drive than men, and that such inhibition makes sense: we shouldn't be out there screwing around and taking the chance og being impregnated by a genetic second-rater. The theory is rank nonsense."
"As recently as the nineteenth century, physicians argued that the uterus competes directly with the brain for an adequate blood supply. Thus any effort a woman made to nourish her mind through education or career would come only at the expense of her fertility."
excellent points NYC....reminded me of some thing in a book i read, Woman: An Intimate Geography by Natalie Angier (it's actually a fantastic book on female physiology written in a way that is clever and easy to understand)
sorry, i'm going to bore you with some quotes now (tho they are funny)
"Some experts have argued that natural selection has given women a lower sex drive than men, and that such inhibition makes sense: we shouldn't be out there screwing around and taking the chance og being impregnated by a genetic second-rater. The theory is rank nonsense."
"As recently as the nineteenth century, physicians argued that the uterus competes directly with the brain for an adequate blood supply. Thus any effort a woman made to nourish her mind through education or career would come only at the expense of her fertility."
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
False Eyelash
346 posts
Location: New York City
346 posts
Location: New York City
Posted:
Great thread NYC. Not sure about this part though. A lot depends on why the family wants children - theirs or someone elses. The overprivledged family that adopts the disadvantaged orphan and treats the kid like some sort of charity case may make the problem worse. Especially if the kid is racially isolated. "2 kids in the same classroom don't necessarily receive the same education" and all that.
The same family could have their own kid who grows up to be totally socially conscious which would help a lot more. I guess it's important (and difficult) to define "privledged" and "underprivledged."
As for actually having kids...all y'all be whacked out for having them monsters be snotting and peeing all over like what. It's hard to make decisions about The Rest Of My Life. But I sure as sugar don't want kids today.
Quote:
Also, in response to Dan's comment. If you adopted a welfare kid wouldn't you be doing MORE to offset the ignorance than by just having your own baby to cancel out the number of uneducated kids? Clearly it's better for society if disadvantaged orphans are raised in advantaged homes than if we just encourage those more fortunate families to have more kids so that the disadvantaged orphans will be less significant statistically.
Great thread NYC. Not sure about this part though. A lot depends on why the family wants children - theirs or someone elses. The overprivledged family that adopts the disadvantaged orphan and treats the kid like some sort of charity case may make the problem worse. Especially if the kid is racially isolated. "2 kids in the same classroom don't necessarily receive the same education" and all that.
The same family could have their own kid who grows up to be totally socially conscious which would help a lot more. I guess it's important (and difficult) to define "privledged" and "underprivledged."
As for actually having kids...all y'all be whacked out for having them monsters be snotting and peeing all over like what. It's hard to make decisions about The Rest Of My Life. But I sure as sugar don't want kids today.
All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Posted:
I know what ya'll gonna say after this post. but i know what i think and thats that. I'm only 15 but ive made up my mind already. i don't want kids, and if i do meet the right guy, then i dunno if i'll want to get married either. Since i've been around 11 or 12 i've absoloutly hated baby's. i dunno why. its just this thing ive got. they [censored] and scream and puke, and then they [censored] and scream and puke some more. and how are they cute? they look like trolls. and the CRYING! GOD i cant stand the crying. pretty ironic really as dad ses i was a right screamer wen i was a baby. i no im probs gonna get alot of stick back from this post, but hey, ive had loads of [censored] today, lets add to the load...
I know what ya'll gonna say after this post. but i know what i think and thats that. I'm only 15 but ive made up my mind already. i don't want kids, and if i do meet the right guy, then i dunno if i'll want to get married either. Since i've been around 11 or 12 i've absoloutly hated baby's. i dunno why. its just this thing ive got. they [censored] and scream and puke, and then they [censored] and scream and puke some more. and how are they cute? they look like trolls. and the CRYING! GOD i cant stand the crying. pretty ironic really as dad ses i was a right screamer wen i was a baby. i no im probs gonna get alot of stick back from this post, but hey, ive had loads of [censored] today, lets add to the load...
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