Forums > Social Chat > Practice, performing, teaching and sharing...
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
There's a couple of threads at the monent about teaching our arts, practicing with others and performing as well, with some very diverse opinions of it all.In keeping with this, I'd like to share a story that happens to me a lot, although not normally as bad as this instance, and get people's feedback from it. Not so much from the other performers as from the 'amateurs' (which is not a reflection of skill, just of whether you get paid to do it
)I met a guy a week ago who was all peeved with me coz when I was performing a few weeks ago,he asked for me to show him some moves and let him have a go with my firestaffs.I'd thought I was very polite (you have to be when you're getting paid), and said that he's welcome to practice with me later, and that I was keen to learn stuff off him too, but sometime later, because I was working...He kept on whining, "aww go on, I won't do much, you afraid I'm gonna show you up etc...". Eventually I had to just ignore him and even then he kept rubbishing me in front of the crowd.When I met him later, he started hassling me again and it took me about half an hour to calm him down and explain that I was WORKING. You don't walk up to a musician on a stage and ask them to lend you their guitar, or give them pointers on how to modify their songs do you? I see no difference between that and what he was asking me to do.Also, other times, when I'm practicing a routine or a specific move for a show, I can't just lend my toys out to all and sundry or talk for hours about it because I need to practice...Outside of these situations, I'll happily teach, practice and learn with others, which is much more fun and happens more often than I turn people down.I'm wondering if these people realise that there are times for sharing and there are times I just have to practice or work without including others.Can people here (who don't often get paid) understand where I'm coming from, or does it seem selfish to you guys too?I'm really confused about why people don't understand when its ok and when it's inappropriate to come up and ask for a go, can you guys help me out on this?------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 30 November 2001).]
There's a couple of threads at the monent about teaching our arts, practicing with others and performing as well, with some very diverse opinions of it all.In keeping with this, I'd like to share a story that happens to me a lot, although not normally as bad as this instance, and get people's feedback from it. Not so much from the other performers as from the 'amateurs' (which is not a reflection of skill, just of whether you get paid to do it
)I met a guy a week ago who was all peeved with me coz when I was performing a few weeks ago,he asked for me to show him some moves and let him have a go with my firestaffs.I'd thought I was very polite (you have to be when you're getting paid), and said that he's welcome to practice with me later, and that I was keen to learn stuff off him too, but sometime later, because I was working...He kept on whining, "aww go on, I won't do much, you afraid I'm gonna show you up etc...". Eventually I had to just ignore him and even then he kept rubbishing me in front of the crowd.When I met him later, he started hassling me again and it took me about half an hour to calm him down and explain that I was WORKING. You don't walk up to a musician on a stage and ask them to lend you their guitar, or give them pointers on how to modify their songs do you? I see no difference between that and what he was asking me to do.Also, other times, when I'm practicing a routine or a specific move for a show, I can't just lend my toys out to all and sundry or talk for hours about it because I need to practice...Outside of these situations, I'll happily teach, practice and learn with others, which is much more fun and happens more often than I turn people down.I'm wondering if these people realise that there are times for sharing and there are times I just have to practice or work without including others.Can people here (who don't often get paid) understand where I'm coming from, or does it seem selfish to you guys too?I'm really confused about why people don't understand when its ok and when it's inappropriate to come up and ask for a go, can you guys help me out on this?------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 30 November 2001).]HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
spinning for ages
125 posts
Location: Christchurch
125 posts
Location: Christchurch
Posted:
There is a time and place for everything....I think that what you are saying is very fair. I for one would love to learn stuff off you, but I would not be asking when you were performing etc....Some people out there just never quite think past the "me me me" and never consider that there might actually be something else going on outside of what they want etc...------------------fe fi foo fun
There is a time and place for everything....I think that what you are saying is very fair. I for one would love to learn stuff off you, but I would not be asking when you were performing etc....Some people out there just never quite think past the "me me me" and never consider that there might actually be something else going on outside of what they want etc...------------------fe fi foo fun
fe fi foo fun
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
Thats the Crack JackN?
Thats the Crack JackN?
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
poo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
Posted:
What foobaa said. And it's not just when dealing with a performer--you see the same underlying attitude when someone shoves his way the the head of a line at a shop counter or something (for some reason, little old ladies are the worst offenders in this regard).
What foobaa said. And it's not just when dealing with a performer--you see the same underlying attitude when someone shoves his way the the head of a line at a shop counter or something (for some reason, little old ladies are the worst offenders in this regard).
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
LOL Adam, I was thinking the same thing about the "me, me, me" mentality and line cutters etc, especially cause it's the holiday season!They ask you to use your stuff while you're performing?
Wow, that takes balls!I am curious Charles, do you find this to be a common trait with certain types of people (is it really young people, or always guys instead of girls)? Could it be that you possibly exude alpha male and need to be challenged or is it just enthusiasm on the other person's part?This is something I haven't encountered, but I think that the "me first,me now" description is spot on. From how it sounds you handle it diplomatically as well, as always!------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com
LOL Adam, I was thinking the same thing about the "me, me, me" mentality and line cutters etc, especially cause it's the holiday season!They ask you to use your stuff while you're performing?
Wow, that takes balls!I am curious Charles, do you find this to be a common trait with certain types of people (is it really young people, or always guys instead of girls)? Could it be that you possibly exude alpha male and need to be challenged or is it just enthusiasm on the other person's part?This is something I haven't encountered, but I think that the "me first,me now" description is spot on. From how it sounds you handle it diplomatically as well, as always!------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
Charles, (as a very vocal amateur) I totally support your actions
EVEN as an Amateur, I dont like it when I'm in the middle of doing something and someone just comes up to me and starts a conversation If I see someone twirling, I'll only very rarely interupt em. wait til the end of the set at least! I guess when you are busking, you are gonna get people who are insecure in their skills trying to steal your limelight.Josh
Charles, (as a very vocal amateur) I totally support your actions
EVEN as an Amateur, I dont like it when I'm in the middle of doing something and someone just comes up to me and starts a conversation If I see someone twirling, I'll only very rarely interupt em. wait til the end of the set at least! I guess when you are busking, you are gonna get people who are insecure in their skills trying to steal your limelight.Josh BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Nowe that you mention it, they all seem to be males (I'm discounting the drunk guys and gals, as I know why they are are acting up...). And usually alone as well, not a with their friends.Hmm, maybe there is a bit of Alpha Male stuff going on too, I certainly make a focuss of quietly flirting with the girls during a show.Although sometimes, if the boyfriend or father seems to be getting bit uppity I switch to flirting with them instead, it gets a great laugh from the crowd, and normally puts them more at ease.I might keep an eye on the jealousy side of things, that may be a real cause of some of the nasty heckling that sometimes surfaces...Thanks for your replies guys, and the insight.------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
Nowe that you mention it, they all seem to be males (I'm discounting the drunk guys and gals, as I know why they are are acting up...). And usually alone as well, not a with their friends.Hmm, maybe there is a bit of Alpha Male stuff going on too, I certainly make a focuss of quietly flirting with the girls during a show.Although sometimes, if the boyfriend or father seems to be getting bit uppity I switch to flirting with them instead, it gets a great laugh from the crowd, and normally puts them more at ease.I might keep an eye on the jealousy side of things, that may be a real cause of some of the nasty heckling that sometimes surfaces...Thanks for your replies guys, and the insight.------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
member
7 posts
Location: brighton
7 posts
Location: brighton
Posted:
Hey Charles!I get that whinning thing from girls all the time and it really does my head in!If people really want to do poi they should bring their own,when working its sooooo irritating.Brighton is full of people waiting to pounce on your poi without the special word ,please!!
Hey Charles!I get that whinning thing from girls all the time and it really does my head in!If people really want to do poi they should bring their own,when working its sooooo irritating.Brighton is full of people waiting to pounce on your poi without the special word ,please!!
BRONZE Member
member
515 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
member
515 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
I agree with you Charles, nothing is more annoying when you are in the middle of a burn and someone comes up and asks if they can have a go....um...NO, I am! I find it rude and it gets my back up (not hard to do). If im having a play, its just that, im playing, when im finished ill put them down and feel free to come and ask me again.Cause another thing i hate is when they stand there waiting for you to finish after they have asked you. Its better off giving them over, letting them play for their minute before they realise they cant do anything and hand them back....
I agree with you Charles, nothing is more annoying when you are in the middle of a burn and someone comes up and asks if they can have a go....um...NO, I am! I find it rude and it gets my back up (not hard to do). If im having a play, its just that, im playing, when im finished ill put them down and feel free to come and ask me again.Cause another thing i hate is when they stand there waiting for you to finish after they have asked you. Its better off giving them over, letting them play for their minute before they realise they cant do anything and hand them back....
- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -
member
750 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
750 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
I agree with Josh - whenever someone is twirling (or doing anything else for that matter) if I like what they are doing and want to learn - I'll just watch and pay attention and often try it out by myself. Then if I am still having trouble I'll wait until they finish and then speak to them. In a way it is just like stepping in on someone's conversation and talking to them about someting totally different.It's also like cutting in when someone is dancing with another person - only that can be pretty suave
I agree with Josh - whenever someone is twirling (or doing anything else for that matter) if I like what they are doing and want to learn - I'll just watch and pay attention and often try it out by myself. Then if I am still having trouble I'll wait until they finish and then speak to them. In a way it is just like stepping in on someone's conversation and talking to them about someting totally different.It's also like cutting in when someone is dancing with another person - only that can be pretty suave
Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut
member
20 posts
Location: Topsham, ME, USA
20 posts
Location: Topsham, ME, USA
Posted:
I'm an amature twirler, but I've been performing magic for 8 years now, 5 yeats profesionaly. I know exactly what you're saying. When I'm performing at a close range to the spectators someones bound to say, "I know a trick, let me see the cards" It's a tough situation to deal with because here you are getting paid to perform and this guy wants to turn the spotlight on him. A lot of people don't know enough about etiquette to not butt in with their editorials. It's also a matter of respect, they don't have any. They also feel like they want to be in the spotlight and can't stand letting someone else having it.(These are usually the people that are the spotlight in their own social groups). I think you handled it perfectly, politly decline and say later. A good idea maybe is to come up with some sort of line to have ready when you encounter someone like that. Usually something that gets a laugh, and takes the edge off. Good luck with your performances,Peter
I'm an amature twirler, but I've been performing magic for 8 years now, 5 yeats profesionaly. I know exactly what you're saying. When I'm performing at a close range to the spectators someones bound to say, "I know a trick, let me see the cards" It's a tough situation to deal with because here you are getting paid to perform and this guy wants to turn the spotlight on him. A lot of people don't know enough about etiquette to not butt in with their editorials. It's also a matter of respect, they don't have any. They also feel like they want to be in the spotlight and can't stand letting someone else having it.(These are usually the people that are the spotlight in their own social groups). I think you handled it perfectly, politly decline and say later. A good idea maybe is to come up with some sort of line to have ready when you encounter someone like that. Usually something that gets a laugh, and takes the edge off. Good luck with your performances,Peter
----------------------what is fire? Magic!
member
25 posts
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
25 posts
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posted:
Two things,1. I think it is the resposibility of everyone that twirls, or spins to help out people that want to learn. To the extent that I almost had someone thrown out of my club for not playing nice with others.2. If someone is so rude as to try and ask me in the middle of a set to let them play, or show them something they must be out of their minds.I really do think that it is important for everyone to be a teacher. I think it would be a pretty poor way of paying back all of the time people I know spen teaching me if I never helped out someone else. But at the same time there is a time and place for asking. When someone is working, or just having fun and someone interupts them it is compleately wrong. I have never minded someone asking after I am done, or taking a break to show them something or to lend them my glowsticks, but they need to wait until I am done. I will not however let someone borrow my Poi unless I know them. The liability issues involved in someone in a club spinning fire without knowing what they are doing is just to high. This is why I make everyone I ever let borrow my Poi show me that they are competent with glowstick first. I think to do otherwise would be iresponsible. The guy I almost threw out by the way was just a complete jerk. He walked in and took up a good part of the dance floor, for almost an hour. Then when I asked him to shorten his strings, he started yelling at me about his freedom of speach rights!
Two things,1. I think it is the resposibility of everyone that twirls, or spins to help out people that want to learn. To the extent that I almost had someone thrown out of my club for not playing nice with others.2. If someone is so rude as to try and ask me in the middle of a set to let them play, or show them something they must be out of their minds.I really do think that it is important for everyone to be a teacher. I think it would be a pretty poor way of paying back all of the time people I know spen teaching me if I never helped out someone else. But at the same time there is a time and place for asking. When someone is working, or just having fun and someone interupts them it is compleately wrong. I have never minded someone asking after I am done, or taking a break to show them something or to lend them my glowsticks, but they need to wait until I am done. I will not however let someone borrow my Poi unless I know them. The liability issues involved in someone in a club spinning fire without knowing what they are doing is just to high. This is why I make everyone I ever let borrow my Poi show me that they are competent with glowstick first. I think to do otherwise would be iresponsible. The guy I almost threw out by the way was just a complete jerk. He walked in and took up a good part of the dance floor, for almost an hour. Then when I asked him to shorten his strings, he started yelling at me about his freedom of speach rights!
Never get over confidant... That is when your chains wrap and you hit yourself in the face.
AlterEgo
128 posts
Location: Londonish
128 posts
Location: Londonish
Posted:
Charles, sounds fair enough to me.Time and a place. When you're working or busking, you're working. You're not providing a public service for anyone who wants to have a go.
Charles, sounds fair enough to me.Time and a place. When you're working or busking, you're working. You're not providing a public service for anyone who wants to have a go.
We're nothing but the nerds they think we are
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I learned pretty quick that anybody who asks me to borrow anything (who over the age of 13) is just asking for trouble. If they were really good, they'd have their own. If they're not, you don't want to bother.In a slightly different context, it always bugged me when someone in a club asks to borrow my glowsticks and then messes them all up... until I realized that no self respecting glow ninja would leave home without a pair. Anyone showing up to a club without glowsticks is a wanna be and deserves no love from me... "No I don't want to watch you do the butterfly really fast until you hopelessly tangle my chains."Back to your situation Charles, If ignoring them doesn't work, you've clearly got a crackhead... so you've got to think like a crackhead. Tell him that the staff is worth $200 because you've had it specially weighted or gold plated or whatever... he can totally borrow it if he let's you hold on to $200. "Dude, I'm not going to let you hold my $200 staff without a security deposit! Once you're done I'll give you the $200 back!" Then you've turned the arguement from "you being a selfish jerk" to "him not having $200."That's what I would do. I'd pick some totally illogical arguement and stick with it. "Dude, this staff is my brothers and he told me not to lend it to ANYONE. I'd totally lend you mine but the cops took it.." (when in doubt, blame the cops, crackheads love to blame the cops) "Dude, I have a permit to use fire here and if I let anyone else the cops will give me a ticket/take my permit away/kill my mom/etc..."I dunno... just a few ones off the top of my head. Remember to blame the cops and use the word "dude" a lot..
I learned pretty quick that anybody who asks me to borrow anything (who over the age of 13) is just asking for trouble. If they were really good, they'd have their own. If they're not, you don't want to bother.In a slightly different context, it always bugged me when someone in a club asks to borrow my glowsticks and then messes them all up... until I realized that no self respecting glow ninja would leave home without a pair. Anyone showing up to a club without glowsticks is a wanna be and deserves no love from me... "No I don't want to watch you do the butterfly really fast until you hopelessly tangle my chains."
Back to your situation Charles, If ignoring them doesn't work, you've clearly got a crackhead... so you've got to think like a crackhead. Tell him that the staff is worth $200 because you've had it specially weighted or gold plated or whatever... he can totally borrow it if he let's you hold on to $200. "Dude, I'm not going to let you hold my $200 staff without a security deposit! Once you're done I'll give you the $200 back!" Then you've turned the arguement from "you being a selfish jerk" to "him not having $200."That's what I would do. I'd pick some totally illogical arguement and stick with it. "Dude, this staff is my brothers and he told me not to lend it to ANYONE. I'd totally lend you mine but the cops took it.." (when in doubt, blame the cops, crackheads love to blame the cops) "Dude, I have a permit to use fire here and if I let anyone else the cops will give me a ticket/take my permit away/kill my mom/etc..."I dunno... just a few ones off the top of my head. Remember to blame the cops and use the word "dude" a lot.. Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
1 post
1 post
Posted:
I have a stand in the local shopping centre where I sell a variety of juggling stuff including poi. Obviously folks want to try the stuff, some because they want to buy, some to show off and some to prat! Saturdays can be hell and if I'm not sure or if they start pratting i explain about my insurance liability as a small business and that I can't let them use the stuff because of that! Works most of the time and the serious punters and people who want help tend to come by in the mid-week when it's quiet and there's room to swing.All the bestSteve
I have a stand in the local shopping centre where I sell a variety of juggling stuff including poi. Obviously folks want to try the stuff, some because they want to buy, some to show off and some to prat! Saturdays can be hell and if I'm not sure or if they start pratting i explain about my insurance liability as a small business and that I can't let them use the stuff because of that! Works most of the time and the serious punters and people who want help tend to come by in the mid-week when it's quiet and there's room to swing.All the bestSteve
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Thanks NYC, I actually use the "the cops won't let me busk here/the organisers won't let me lend out my gear" with a little story attached. I'm on good terms with the cops here and when busking, I tell them about this guy who burnt his face with my staff i lent him.I emphasise that I think the cops made the right decision, and that they are being reasonable. and even if it doesn't work for the 'crackhead', the rest of the crowd are on my side. Doesn't stop them being a a vocal pain and whinger on the sideline though...But that's life i guess, if I want the limelight, I'll have to take the good with the bad...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
Thanks NYC, I actually use the "the cops won't let me busk here/the organisers won't let me lend out my gear" with a little story attached. I'm on good terms with the cops here and when busking, I tell them about this guy who burnt his face with my staff i lent him.I emphasise that I think the cops made the right decision, and that they are being reasonable. and even if it doesn't work for the 'crackhead', the rest of the crowd are on my side. Doesn't stop them being a a vocal pain and whinger on the sideline though...But that's life i guess, if I want the limelight, I'll have to take the good with the bad...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
member
9 posts
Location: Beranghi, New South Wales, Australia
9 posts
Location: Beranghi, New South Wales, Australia
Posted:
Nice thread.Audience can be a distracting thing, as teachers often say "this place would run very smoothly if it werent for the students!"People wanting to play during a performance is often a prob. so you need to prepare yourself for this possibility- not leaset because it is very dangerous to have punters enteringf your spinning space!first I try to have a crew, someone who can approach the over enthusiastic and give them the rub!next it is important to clearly define your space (this may not be possible in clubs but we normally perform outside up here in the subtropics!)a rope or other defining line is good. punters normally respect a defined line.Next I never let anyone light up unless I see them practice and know their drug state, 'dont drink and twirl!'The other point is to have a very defined finale to your performance so punters know it is over!after this it is always good to spend some time instructing others, it tends to reinforce the "wow' effect and spread the majic amongst the community.Happy twizzling!
Nice thread.Audience can be a distracting thing, as teachers often say "this place would run very smoothly if it werent for the students!"People wanting to play during a performance is often a prob. so you need to prepare yourself for this possibility- not leaset because it is very dangerous to have punters enteringf your spinning space!first I try to have a crew, someone who can approach the over enthusiastic and give them the rub!next it is important to clearly define your space (this may not be possible in clubs but we normally perform outside up here in the subtropics!)a rope or other defining line is good. punters normally respect a defined line.Next I never let anyone light up unless I see them practice and know their drug state, 'dont drink and twirl!'The other point is to have a very defined finale to your performance so punters know it is over!after this it is always good to spend some time instructing others, it tends to reinforce the "wow' effect and spread the majic amongst the community.Happy twizzling!
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