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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:Hello. I am setting up this thread for those who independently seek assistance with anything that has to do with baton. I will be on tour across Western Canada with my staff until mid Sept./early Oct., then hopefully I will be touring Eastern Canada after that for as long as I can until it gets way to cold. My internet access during this time is limited (wish I had a lap top), all depending on how many local internet cafes are around. But I will make the effort to periodically check in here.

So, if anyone has any questions or requires assistance with BATON or the moves of, you can ask here and I will do my best to help.

quote:"...but to carve and shape the very atmosphere through which we look and see, that is the finest of the arts."


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pozee
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

old hand
Location: san diego

Total posts: 886
Posted:hint hint huh...

anyone got a light?

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:I get my camera back on friday, have reinstalled premier and doms just setting up a new site. I might be able to blag a corner for a couple of fillums

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:that would be cool as glass.

Pozzee, I wasnt hinting to malcom, I know how precious his bandwidth is and i wouldent want to endanger HoP, butm yea, a hint, and glass got it, yay!

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Yo Tennessa,

just seen the baton twirling world chanpinoship video that Minero's been raving about for ages, I see what he means and now I have a real question about baton.

of the contact moves there was a flatspin on the back that seemed to go the opposite way the peaple were turning or something. It occurs to me in retrospect that they were doing 180 body and then 180 staff and 180 body and so on, is this the case?

Also there was that woman who had continuious wraps around the shoulder. How do you do that? how do you get the centerpoint to shift? is it to do with the slickness of the batons?

thirdly there was a nice open hand catch that contacted vertically across the back of the shoulders and into the other hand. any tips?

I thought the technical level was exellent if robotic, Im glad we develope our own styles even with the same tricks.

do you know a kind of bending over vertical contact that sorta works upside down? best desciption I can manage at the moment, only saw it once.

Love

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:hmmm.
Where can I watch the vidjo???
or where can I order a copy????
You seen the cubeFX vidjo's right

Must have things.


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah <smile> I seen the cubefx vid, at least the trident one. thats what got me started on this contact bussness. hes too sick, like a few peaple round here I could mention...

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:I like that retro smile style can I do one like this <: )>

nix, but where can I get the baton video from, whats it called?

Cube FX has taken the old vids down, and has some new, but no stick.
ahh come on, the stuff he's doing aint that sick.
but its very solid < : ) >

Yesterday revistied with my stick:
Roll from hand to opposite foot via back of neck
2x only ever in a few attempts. but Its coming
probably only take me a year or 2 to get it solid

Glass
___________________________
happy beginner


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Its just called 'baton twirling world campionships' or something like that, I dont know where youd find it, one for tennessa i recon.

yes, solid, and sick, horisontal shoulder catches, hummm.

Whats this move your onabout? horisontal or vertical? backhand round neck and onto foot or what?

Love

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:horizontal
slow
right hand just above head height, but infront
spin cw slowly roll down arm to neck
with about 1 turn,
then down back
and onto left leg turning body a bit
then down top of left leg.
to foot catch,
kick up

well thats the plan anyway
sometimes it works
Glass


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Posted:hehe - love the contact stuff..

Wasnt sure about the championships video, so I didnt buy it...I think I will have to upon return to the UK whereabouts access to a video is a possibility. I think you can buy it for about $50US from the ustwirling website www.ustwirling.com

You guys are all caining!! tis great to see

my contact stuff is pretty basic...neck roll to neck pinch reversa back over the neck to elbow grip to elbow roll is about the hieght of it at the moment...Love it tho...its nice to get so close to my staff...hmmm did I say that wrong?

Big wassssup! from Vienna.

Goa tonight!

pozee, mail coming soon!

UK contactees, I'm going to be in the neighbourhood soon, I really wanna see this stuff!

Contact!

Josh

Be Well All


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Mineiro


member
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 262
Posted:in schiphol airport.....

when i get back i will (shock) copy the video for those in desparate need.

back in 2 weeks with moremoremoremore stuff learnt from crazy finnish crew

josh get in touch when in uk....few festivals for you uto go to if interested..?

x


brain replacement...anyone?

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah josh, come visit! if you wanna see the highlands theres a place here for ya!

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:reply for Nix - your post on Aug.7, you were talking about a flatspin on the back.

Where on the back? lower back, or upper back between the shoulder blades (because the latter one is the neck spin I was descibing). The body has to turn the opposite way from the direction of the staff spinning. This move looks like the staff is spinning in between the shoulder blades on your back.
I haven't seen that particular video, but if I saw it I would try to give you my best explanation of all the moves you are trying to describe. I will be going to train (baton only)with my childhood rival in the early fall. Afterall, I may as well get lessons from her because she is the best there ever was in baton...ever, and I don't know who else to go to who is that advanced. She isn't that far away (next province over). After that, hopefully I will be able to depict more stuff in detail for you, and when I come out there, show you also.

You guys are doing great, I can't wait to hear more of your moves you're working on.


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, the one between the shoulderblades.

does the staff and body keep turnig continiously? or are there pauses in the body rotation?

jelouse of you going to see that girl, shes amazing.

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Ok Rob,
I'm taking you up on that offer
nice one,
Don;t know if i should send you and address, or come up north and collect it;)

See you
Drew

This months games for me are:
Continuous Vertical spins on the back of the neck
Continuous neck wraps, (this one is still killing me since nix?s thread)
sore neck ooh


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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:Yes Nix, the staff and the body keep turning continuously. It's like doing an open palm hand spin above your head, while turning the opposite direction, making it look like more more rotations are actually happening with the staff. Same thing with the "neck or shoulderblade spin".

I am in the prairies now already, my travels plans are always so obscure, I am currently 1000 miles out of the way from where I planned on being now. Oh well. Only another 1000 to get back. Starting early on those pro lessons, all over again.

quote:"...but to carve and shape the very atmosphere through which we look and see, that is the finest of the arts"


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:[josh] do you ever read your PM's ?

Just watched the start of one of those videos on that baton site you recommended
I recon I know where I was going wrong,
I need a frilly skirt and a lot more make up and stick on smiles to get my staff to work.

Glass


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:glass, and a big rubber bung!

Tennessa, im glad your off course, best way to travel.

slowing down onna new staff moves, partly cos im injured and partly cos i got lots to learn offa rob. will say horisontal shoulder to across chest and catch behind back.

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:oops I lied the videos are here, not on the site josh said, I'm busy downloading at the moment, theres a couple of really nice contact moves in here.
I'm not a thrower, but I can appreciate the quality of some of these

http://www.worldsbaton2002.com/index2.html
br>
Now I know where Robs getting his inspiration at the moment.

nix LOL. and on the merchandising on the site Josh recommend they have the "OFFICIAL" baton twirling leotard. I got to get me one of these.


Glass


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:phwaooor
watched the first one again
12 variations and ideas for me to work on, plush.

number 2 at 58% cant wait
cant wait tee hee


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, its kinda sickening, reasuringly mechanical tho.

gotta get back into it, been letting stuff fall.

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Mineiro


member
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 262
Posted:oooooh oooooh back tomorrow to edinburgh with new and improved body designed for fire, asbestos hands and fire retardant deodorant waiting for return to madness(with some nice noo stuff to test also.... )
soon
R


brain replacement...anyone?

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Mineiro


member
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 262
Posted:have decided to enter british baton twirling champs next year in build up to world bid in 2004
just you wait!!!!!!!!!! *deranged laughter*

*swallows*

aaaahhh amazing what modern medication will do for you...
so after a swift rreturn to sanity, i feel it is time for a nooooooo move, not spetted on vid but sure it is there somewhere...

ooooh f*ck. feel this should be on new contact stuff... but feeling rebellious in my old age

doubles going same direction(clockwise, sametime) right hand staff drops over right hand onto back roll then down inside left arm for right hand btb catch....make sense? (if not will be problems to follow...)

as the first staff is being lifted out by the right hand the left hand staff goes btb upwards inside right arm into back roll, and out along left arm,wrist and hand.... so you kind of get a wierd sort of mirror thing going on....

ok so no sense made at all.......sorrysorry for wat of time... but brain picking is available for a fee of 10 euros/minute(or free hugs whichever get to me first....)
R


brain replacement...anyone?

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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:Ha, ha, ha, ha. It's great to see you guys watching baton competition videos. It really is a talent that I hated until I was "Down Under", and was turned on to a new way to baton.....staff it!!! Now I love it, and I can say I've put what I felt was a useless talent into something I enjoy, and look forward to doing. I won't say staffing is easy, it is hard as well, I know, I should send you the pic of me with my shiner from hitting myself in the side of the face with my stick. Yah, I've ruined a few shirts and baggy pants, have the odd staff battle scar, but I never hurt myself with my baton ever!!! All though I should have, with all the crazy shit I've done. Glad to see you guys still challenging yourselves.

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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:O.K., I feel it about time to bring this thread back up. I have been asked questions as to how to perform certain moves, and I will try my best to explain them as I am asked. I cant at the moment send a private email back to those asking, but hopefully by explaining a few things on this thread, will help those in question. I shall soon take the time out to explain in detail the thumb toss, which will give anyone the ultimate control on any toss you will want to perform. This means for height, and propulsion, as well as stability of the throw, period!!! Plz give me a short time to gather myself back to another internet cafe, to start the instructing.
quote: ...but to carve and shape the very atmosphere thru which we look and see everyday, that is the finest of the arts!


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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:THUMB TOSS:
The thumb toss is like a forward spinning toss, but with greater control. This toss is not just released out of your hand, or off the palm of your hand, whether facing up or down, it is tossed off the thumb. Lets use the right hand, assuming most people are right handed, and for you lefties, do it in other hand, opposite direction:
To start: - start with the staff in your right hand, out in front of you, making a fist around the staff (palm facing down), (like you just reached out and punched someone in the face)
Lets also pretend that you have two different color ends on your staff, right now the end on the left is blue, and the end on the right is red.

1/ - turn your fist over so the palm is facing up, the staff making a half rotation (now the red end is on your left and the blue end to your right). THIS IS WHERE MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK TO RELEASE THE STAFF UP AND INTO THE AIR. Lets take it a step further from the open handed toss to the thumb toss here.

2/ - while your palm is facing up, open your fist, and let the staff make another half rotation, with the staff feeling like it is stuck between your thumb, and the forefinger part of your hand (the first finger so to speak), THIS FEELS AWKWARD AT FIRST SO DONT BE ALARMED. It should now look like the blue end is back on the left (as far as it can reach), and the red end back on the right. You should feel like the staff is just stuck there, and physically will not rotate anymore.

3/ - This is where you will release the staff from, this awkward feeling position. So, back to the start, before practicing the toss, just practice turning your hand over and letting the staff make its full rotation, getting stuck (not spinning anymore). Get familiar with this STUCK THERE feeling. You should feel like if the staff turned anymore, someone was twisting your arm off, he, he, he. So, once you cant spin it anymore, thats when you will release the staff off the thumb and up in front of you.

Once you are confortable with this, you will be able to control the toss more. For example, try to just do small tosses up in front of your body, not really tossing the staff higher than head level, and than catching it. You will notice that the harder and quicker you spin the staff before you release it, the more spins you will have in the air, suspending it there longer before having to catch it.

Being a former baton twirler, our batons have a big end and a little end. This is also why I refer to practicing with two different color ends on your staff, one blue, and one red. Everytime I would toss the baton up and catch it, the big end has to be caught on the left, and the small on the right, to show a complete rotation, or rotations before the catch. If I were to accidently catch it with the little end on on the left, instead of the right, it would show that it was incomplete of a full rotation, no matter how many already made, and I would be docked marks in a competition. This is a baton no-no..

So a good practice for tossing the staff with two different color ends is:
Try to make the staff spin a full rotation in the air before catching it. Then move onto making your staff complete two full spin rotations in the air, then three spins. By the time you have made your staff spin three full times in front of your body before catching it, you have got great spin on it. After three full rotations, you will also realize that you will probably have to start tossing the staff up higher than head level to get in more rotations.

Play with this toss, and get confortable, and you will see the great control you will have. All your tosses will end up going straight up and down in front of your body all the time, with as much spin on it as you want to put. The term putting spin on it, refers to the speed and the propulsion you put on the staff before releasing it, enabling it to be suspended in the air longer. The more complete spins you have on your staff, the longer it will be suspended in the air, enabling you to do more of whatever under the staff ie. spins, cartwheels, whatever funky moves youve got, before catching it.

I hope that this explanation is easy to understand, if not, plz reply and I will do my best to re-explain whatever parts you need. For some reason I thought that I had posted this thumb toss already on another thread, but I could be wrong. It never hurts to post the info again.


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Just a little word on the physics,

the spinning speed of a staff does not change how long it 'hangs' in the air, only the degree of upward force. It may apear so, but i think thats more to do with the relation between the vertical velocity and rorational velocity. I.E. more spins for the same arc, making it apear slower.

Nix?


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:nix is bang on there. the spin will most definitely not affect the amount of time the staff is in the air - this is dependent purely on the height it is thrown to.

for the geeks out there... the speed of the spin affects the angular momentum of the staff.
the higher the spin speed, the greater the angular momentum.
like linear momentum, ang. mom. must be conserved which means the faster the staff is spinning, the more energy is required to change its plane.
the same applies for poi and clubs by the way which is why its easier to keep poi in neat planes when you spin them fast.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Right on guys, couldn't agree more.

One other thing to note, Tanessa, as firestaffers aren't judged by Baton Twirling Judges, there's really no need to catch the staff after a full rotation.

In my humble opinion, that limits the variations possible with throws to half of what they could be, and doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Is there some other advantage that I'm not aware of here?



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Tanessa


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 91
Posted:Sorry to disappoint you guys, but if you read my post correctly, I was refering to putting spin on the staff while throwing it up at the SAME HEIGHT, which makes what I said correct. If I was to throw up the staff head level, with no spins, or little spins, it would not stay in the air as long as if I had put more spins on it. Of course I know that the height makes a difference, but you must have missed me saying throwing it up at the same height. If you don't believe me, do the test yourself and throw it up head level with no spin compared to three spins, and see which falls quicker.

As for practicing making full complete rotations, I feel that it is a good practice exercise. I know that this is no "baton competition", and I am not saying it is wrong to catch it on a half rotation, this is staff after all, and no-one can tell the difference on the ends of the staff. But like I said, and will say again, IT IS A GOOD PRACTICE EXERCISE for getting spin on your tosses.

As for your physics, etc., try twirling a baton first before you decide to trash it and the theory behind using it as a staff. If I had never twirled a baton for so long and seriously, I would never be able to twirl the staff in the controlled and advanced way that I do. It is being a former baton twirler that makes me have the advantage over most staffers, seriously speaking. It will be hard for many of you staffers to understand this since you have probably never even been around baton twirling, but I have been "twirling a stick" so to speak for a long time, for 21 yrs!!! So I do know what I am talking about, whether you agree with me or not. If you have been twirling staff, or a stick for as long as me, I would love to hear your opinion. But then again, like I have made the comment before, that all or most staffers will crucify me for, is that staffing is an easy version of baton. I know, like I said, I will be crucified for this comment, AGAIN, but if you were a baton twirler, before you were a staffer, you would say the same thing. Like I have said before, the best staffer I have ever seen is a former baton twirler, world champ, etc. And for those of you who disagree, I challenge you to go to your local communities, and start taking baton twirling lessons, and you will see, what is harder, staff or baton.

I don't want anyone to have hard feelings, but it seems that everytime I try to publically help people who have questions, or seek my help, others are always so quick to crash my ideas and help. For those of you so anxious to do so, why don't you try to practice the same exercises yourself? Come, I dare you to walk in my shoes. Can you........ or will you.......?


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