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Posted:is it just me or are poi products on the net incredibly expensive. i was just looking at an american site fire poi for 55 us$ i don't know the material prices over your way but in new zealand where the dollar is less than half the us we buy them for around 60 nz$ shouldn't poi be for everyone. come on you greedy fuckers give those joining our sport a break

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Posted:Build them yourself if you are really interested in value for money
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Josh


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pozee
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

old hand
Location: san diego

Total posts: 886
Posted:definately gives you a better feel for what you like. you can personalize them if you build them yourself. also you know how durable they are when you buy the parts yourself. i have been wanting some kevlar wicks though.

anyone got a light?

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:If it's too pricey, they'll just look elsewhere and find this site and get the best stuff from Malcolm...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I was going to respond as to the ease and inexpense of making poi but I am desperately offended at the term "greedy fuckers" by an unregistered user.I am certain that everyone on here for long enough has, in some way, experienced the generosity and kindness of Malcolm and those running this site. I feel that any slur against anyone, including those running this site should not be tolerated if we are to maintain a friendly community. As this user chose to post anonomously, he or she can not change their remarks. If "poi positions" would like to make a commentary on the price of poi, I'd appreciate it if it was done without direct slur against organization or person.I am sure that I am not alone in this.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Posted:I dont think that kid's post or use of language demonstrated anything other than a lack of understanding...therefore I'm not offended.Its not like that person actually has a clue...If they did, they'd know what the materials cost, and how long it takes, and what expertise are neccessary to make poi.. do the sums...and realise that poi arent all that marked up in most cases..Josh

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Posted:offending people seems to be to easy these days, hardin buddy, surely honest and forth-right comuication is better than trying to aviod offending those who choose to be offended. my post is directed not only at the producers of poi products but to our "poi" culture as well. recently here we had a spat between the "u.s. glowstick spinners and the rest of the world fire spinners" (as i saw it). as far as i have seen there seems to be a similar attitude between those who "spin" who are of an 'alternate nature' and those who are of the mainstream. the price to join our 'club of poi' at present is either begin in the loop/circle of "altnates" or risk net purshasing and high prices. surley the benifits of poi should be avalible to all citzins and not for a select few. cheers

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foobaa


foobaa

spinning for ages
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 125
Posted:I agree with NYC...shouldn't really slag off people who are operating their business the only way a business should be run...sensibly and making a profit. The trouble is if you buy from anybody...they will have to have a markup on it. If you put the little bit of effort into building yourself you get a much better price...and the accoplishment thing too!!I have often looked at buying stuff...and if I can make it I do. With my juggling stuff sometime that really expensive stuff is very well worth the money...I could not really hope to make something of the same sort of quality/balance etc.....------------------fe fi foo fun

fe fi foo fun

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WuGgaRoO


member
Location: brooklyn

Total posts: 123
Posted:do you kiss your mother with that mouth... dude thats horrible...and by an unregistered user too...if you have a complaint atleast have the courage to register...i beleive you should now humbly ask malcom for an apology...for shame....for shame..

Follow Wuggarooism10)Dons't cheateth on thee's significant other9) If thou seest a pig that resembles thee's friend...dont eateth the pig...perhaps it is thee's friend8) If thou talkest shit..thou is a pansy7) Don't buttith into conversations for it will be over thous head6) Dont let stupid comments go unpunished they can only leadest to thous anyurysms5) Dont lie to your friends4) Thou areest what thou arest don't change thou for anyone 3) Masturbation isnt a crime2) When a horse comes up to thou and sayest baaa thou must run!1) Be excellent to eachother

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:Not saying that im agreeing with the use of the language on a BB that i would suggest has a "G" rating, but before everyone goes jumping the gun, poi positions did mention that he was looking at an american site......HOP not being an american site would rule out the direct slag at Malcolm....Just a thought.I have often had the same thoughts myself when someone i knoew recently paid $60 for a set of homemade ripstop poi that im fairly certain the place selling them bought from someone else for $25.....fairly huge mark up there!But I also make my own gear, works out cheaper and more fun.------------------ - Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -http://wickeffect.cjb.net**Updates to page coming shortly**

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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Posted:I guess I should point out - that even if you build your poi from the cheapest available materials they will still end up costing something like $25 - $30 Aus (same as Nz?) - then if you add shipping and some profit - you will be going upwards of $50...places around here sell em for about $75 which I think is steep, but at Festivals they are often even more expensive..Poi is available to anyone with $2 for a couple of tennisballs and shoelaces.I use Tennis ball poi for practice, and sometimes indoor party use...there is no shame in them - after all, are you twirling for internal, or external reasons? Are you doing it to enjoy it, or for others to enjoy it?These factors all play.Josh[This message has been edited by [Josh] (edited 03 October 2001).]

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:I don't know if poi positions was making referenec to my site or not, but he might as well have been. I make and sell poi equipment. A basic poi rig from me costs about $50. If you think you can make a rig of similar quality for less money, go for it--I've posted almost all my equipment recipes online. The tools I use just to make wicks cost $100. Shoot, I just spent $37 on a tub of high-temperature glue. And never mind about my time--not just actually making stuff, but researching where to buy high-temperature glue and that sort of thing.If you think something's too expensive, don't buy it. Isn't that a wonderful thing, that you can choose not to buy something? Poi may or may not be for everyone, but my equipment is for people who value it enough to pay me what I think its worth. I don't owe you anything.Poi positions evidently doesn't understand the difference between a business and a charity.Also: it's not a sport. It's an art.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Posted:read the content you superfical types, the content is what we are talking about not the delivery...its time to move away from judging people on their appearance or what words they choose to express themselves with. this seems to be an american problem, although i'm definetly not suggesting it doesn't exist elsewhere.malcoms site (this one) has not been mentioned by myself in regards to "greedy fuckers" it was an 'american site'would it make you all alot happier if i joined the 'home of poi' web register to make my opinion relevant. tell me how does that work. take it easy

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Posted:I think its time to stop thinking about content and delivery as being seperate - communication involves and is related to both. content is king! - as long as ppl can access it
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Being registered would make very little difference. you are from New Zealand, and you have a pseudo, thats all we know about anyone.Your last comments were more interesting...perhaps you could register - and add your POV to other topics?I dont think this industry works out its pricing on the basis of what the competitors are asking alone - there is too much competition for that.There is no-one in charge! - all hail the headless chicken of the free market.
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And Adam, do you think the ppl running the pyrolympics think its an art? I agree with you, but it really is whatever a twirler makes of it (for now).Josh[This message has been edited by [Josh] (edited 03 October 2001).]


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sandman


member
Location: Brighton, England

Total posts: 65
Posted:I know the comments about expensive poi were not directed at this site, but I just thought I'd mention, Malcolm, that the first thing I noticed when I came here was that you were charging approximately half as much as I had previously paid in my local shop! And for far funkier looking poi at that!Definitely no complaints here.
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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:LOL, I got a free pen with my order. Malcolm is awesome. I honestly love my HOP pen. I only sleep with it on tuesdays though. Eric------------------_ _WILDFIRE_ _ P.B.K.___ "RePreZenTin'"

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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sandman


member
Location: Brighton, England

Total posts: 65
Posted:I, also, am in possession of a beautiful HOP pen. So dear is it to me that I daren't use it for fear that it may one day run out! (Having a full pen I don't use is infinitely more satisfying than an empty pen I can't use, don't you agree? If only I could apply the same philosophy to my bank account
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) It is currently residing at home on my desk, safe and snug in the little velvety black sleeping bag it arrived in
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Dm


Dm

AlterEgo
Location: Londonish

Total posts: 128
Posted:Tupence worth:There are some expensive, crap, cheap, excellent Poi out there, buy as you like.I disagree with 'poi positions' on his culture bash, which seems to have slipped in unnoticed. I rarely, if ever, have seen something on this board, in clubs, festivals or wherever there is twirling about his statement:"recently here we had a spat between the "u.s. glowstick spinners and the rest of the world fire spinners" (as i saw it). as far as i have seen there seems to be a similar attitude between those who "spin" who are of an 'alternate nature' and those who are of the mainstream. "To me I've never seen evidence of this and I've met, taught, learnt and spun with people be they twirling Zuni, homemade poi, glowsticks, fire, flags, staff, whatever, and be they hippy, lad, wideboy, loud, quiet, male, alternative, mainstream, straight, female, raver, etc... and I've never had such an attitude displayed towards me.All I see is the 'Global Fire Tribe' (even if you're not spinning fire!) and I love it.Dom

We're nothing but the nerds they think we are

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:OK, well, I guess that not only am I a greedy fucker, I am a *dumb* greedy fucker (which is only to be expected, since I'm an American). I don't understand. I am expected to judge people not based on "what words they choose to express themselves with" but on the "content". Gee. This is a text-based forum. The words *are* the content. Unless you choose to shoot a digital video of yourself, say, doing an interpretive dance, and post a link to that on this forum, I'm pretty much stuck with words.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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cutie poi girlie


member
Location: porthtowan, truro, cornwall

Total posts: 237
Posted:uh..yeah.. i once got a pair of poi for 20pounds.i thought that was expensive, but, as the dude selling them said, you get what you pay for... and my first pair of poi were 7 pounds..they were s**t..
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Luv peace 'n' chicken grease Al X x

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Posted:Hmm.. as far as pricy poi goes, that figure sounds about right. Kevlar wicking is expensive, about $2 USD /ft ($6/m). If you have 6 ft of wick on each one (thats what I have) it comes out to 24USD for the pair plus shipping, leather for the handles, and about $10 for hardware. It adds up. My giant poi which each uses 10ft of 3inch wick cost me about $85 to make. You should make your own poi anyway. What kind of self respecting fire-dancer buys their equipment premade?

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Posted:OH, on that note, if you make your own poi. (and perhaps everybody already knows this and i'm just nieve) If you are using dog collars for your chains, which whould seem to be perfect, BE WARNED: the rings on the ends may FAIL over time if they not welded. Which leaves question to the overall integrety of that type of chain. Just thought I'd mention that.

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SteelWngs
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

SteelWngs

member
Location: Malden, Massachusetts United S...

Total posts: 169
Posted:Ahhhhhhh free trade.
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Ok here is my spin on all of this. When it comes to making a quality product you really get what you pay for. On the other hand a product shouldn't be marked up 200% IMHO. Then again if you can get someone to pay you 200% over what something cost you to make does that make you a bad person? Or does that just prove that there stupid or make WAY to much money. (Gold jewelry for example. Ever heard the term Triple Keystone?)If a person has a problem with buying a product from a particular vendor he/she should take his/her business elsewhere. The problems arise when only one company or person manufactures a product.I have thought of making my own fire poi and then figured out that it would be easier to pay the extra 20$+ for peace of mind. Isnt that what being a capitalist society all about though? If you dont want to spend the time and the effort into making it yourself you pay someone who will.As for the language problem, I have found that most people usually rely on vulgar language because they cannot come up with a better fitting adjective. ------------------Blessings to all, Peter "There is a rhythm that unites us with the natural world. The more we learnto feel that rhythm and get it into the mainstream of our lives, thestronger can be our spirit."--- Robert Rodale


Blessings to all,
Peter
When you find yourself in the company of a halfling and an ill-tempered Dragon, remember, you do not have to outrun the Dragon ...you just have to outrun the halfling.

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Total posts: 1017
Posted:I have seen most manufactured poi sets out there. There are many types. I know Adam's poi are made with much love and craftsmanship. He also gives much time behind the scenes to help others and to further these arts. He has given much back to the arts and still continues to do so. His poi are made from high quality components and I have heard many good things about them. Try not to judge on price alone or compare products on price only. There is quality, craftmanship, backup, service, and support to consider as well.

May your balls always burn

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:I second the motion that Adamrice's poi are outstanding. I've seen them and they are very well engineered. If you went to a leather shop, they would charge you $50 just to make the grips. And a 200% markup is nothing considering that isn't even figuring in labor to that. Most places would mark you up 400% after the labor charge. I suspect that is the case in NZ or anywhere else too. You can't make a living selling stuff for no profit. If you bought a set of Adamrice's poi for $50 and didn't think you had gotten a good deal, I would tell you that you don't have any concept of value.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Insatiable fire-faerie (Angie)
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Dunoon, Argyll, Scotland,U.K

Total posts: 150
Posted:I would just like to say ......I think swearing isnt nessasarily a bad thing, I mean there is sometimes nothing better than a good old "Fuck" when you are mad about something (take that as you will!!
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)sometimes any other word just wont do! But to say it SO depends on the context in which you use it and I think when you use it directly at someone, which I feel this person has, then people are going to feel hurt about it, especially the people who work had to source, create and supply quality products to Poi people all over the world!I am new to the art of poi and found this site by chance about 2 weeks ago and I am so glad I did. I have seen poi being performed at various gigs and festivals, but because of where I live (rural G.B) I am unable to get anything locally. I looked on the internet and found different sites showing you how to make your own poi, which I could have done, but I didnt really have the confidence in myself to give it a go but because I really want to get into Poi I ordered a practise kit from malcom. I placed my order and within 4 days they had arrived (all the way to Scotland)......I got them yesterday.I am so pleased, the quality is excellent and the video is great.....I feel that my "pair" are defianatley worth every penny! and thanks to sites/buisnesses like this, I am able to purchase poi gear like everyone else, even though I live at the other side of the world,miles away from civilisation!. So "Poi Positions"........I do belive you where speaking on mine and other beginers behalfs when you started this discussion and Im sure your intentions where good, and at the end of the day it is a very valid topic to discuss, plus the fact....is this not what these boards are all about..To discuss and express our own individual issues with other people???......(just dont call people fuckers on my behalf)....cheers.Now I think we should all take some deep breaths and chill.
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Love and Smiles Angie xP.S...*MALCOM* and co....thanks again for supplying quality gear and providing a great service!!! Keep Smiling!! Ang
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------------------"If you alway do what youve always done, youll always get what youve always got".....by 'someone wiser than me'


"You've got red on you!" Shaun of the Dead

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