Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:So I was thinking about this. There are so many arts out there, but are we all "spinners"?

Not that it really matters, but anyways...

Here's my definition: "spinning" or "twirling" is defined as a dance-like performing art consisting of rapidly moving some object (a poi, staff, sword, rope, fan, small furry animal, etc.) in a roughly circular trajectory in order to create a striking visual effect.

I sometimes blanket all spinning as "the centrifugal arts."

You'll notice that this definition excludes juggling. Juggling is great and jugglers have my complete respect. But I don't think of them as spinners and I don't think of spinners as jugglers.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:I think that's a pretty good definition.

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:That's a pretty good definition

I'm going to be a bit nitpicky though and say that it doesn't really need to include the word 'rapidly', I try to spin as slowly as possible most of the time


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:As a juggler, I agree entirely...staff and poi are a very different manipulation art to juggling, just as juggling is to diabolo and devil sticks.

Unless you are Bassman, who juggles while he is doing poi!



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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:I have often wondered how to define these arts.

I think most would agree, that what we do here is a dance-like performing art, but I think that is only one aspect. It would exclude Indian club like exhibition performances for example, which are more gymnastic-like, than dance-like.

I think "centrifugal arts" or something along that line would be closer. Don't necessarily think that juggling should be excluded either. There is a lot of cross-over, especially if you juggle clubs, or staff. And many jugglers include poi as a juggling art.

Just some thoughts


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Stone, there are definately spinners who juggle and jugglers who spin. Club spinning is a centrifugal art, although it also has elements of juggling in it, so it's a crossover art. Having said that, just because you throw and catch a poi doesn't make you a juggler...it's just a "gee wiz" move.

BovrilMonkey, I don't care how slowly you spin. If you spin beamers and hit yourself with one, it won't seem very slow!

Then there's the "fire arts." The "fire arts" are any performance wherein the artist manipulates fire or a flaming object to achieve the desired effect. This includes firebreathing, fire eating, fire juggling, fire spinning, fire diablo, fire devil sticks, tracing, fire glowsticking (of MikeZ fame), etc. But dancing around a fire is not a fire art. Neither is glowstringing.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I am going to disagree.

Spinning/Twirling is the art of manipulating objects utilizing centrifugal force to carry it from one place/transition to another.

No jugglers are not spinners, though they both fall into the category of object manipulation and so are about in the same over all class.

If you have seen COL1 or in fact many beginners you will see that to be a spinner does not require dancing at all. In fact, it is rare to actually see people dance when they do spin at first, even when they become fairly smoothe with entry level spin tricks. Most people move their arms and upper body and forget that thier feet exsist. In fact, I can spin sitting down with my hands tied together. I am not dancing in the slightest bit, but I can spin just as adeptly.

The dancing aspect is a whole other definition/title, imho. I can dance and not spin, or spin and not dance, therefore they are mutually exclusive arts that have been combined to enhance each other, and so should not be fit into the definition of one another.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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poiaholic22
member

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Lightning=MikeGinny:

Here's my definition: "spinning" or "twirling" is defined as a dance-like performing art consisting of rapidly moving some object (a poi, staff, sword, rope, fan, small furry animal, etc.) in a roughly circular trajectory in order to create a striking visual effect. I don't know if you should lump sword spinning into all of this.True you can spin swords but you can also juggle them or sword dance or other forms of artistry with swords.But hey just my $0.02

I don't know if you should lump small furry animal spinning into all of this.True you can spin small furry animals but you can also juggle them or small furry animal dance or other forms of artistry with small furry animals.But hey just my $0.02

In talking to people I have noticed that some get confused when I refer to spinning or being a spinner.A lot of the time they think I'm talking about being a DJ.

I can also understand diabolo not technically being a direct form of juggling but I can't agree about devil sticks.Granted you may not be juggling the devil stick with your hands but you are still manipulating it in the air.Still being different from spinning because there is nothing to keep it from hitting the ground except for your ability to juggle it in the air.Also by Mike's definition wouldn't that make diabolo a form of spinning? Still just my $0.02.

Honestly I don't care what you call them.I call them FUN and love them all .No matter how irritating they can be at times.
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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:right on pele.
totally agree.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Mike, I think it's interesting to chat about these topics occasionally. Pele has a good point about manipulation as the main category; and fire twirling is fire twirling.

Lately, I've been associating these arts with juggling. Like poi is juggling, with strings. With devilstix we use the juggling rhythm. With staff, cane and swinging clubs there are no strings, so they are even closer to juggling, and contact crosses all disciplines.

Then, crews like Gandini blur any difference, and "gee wiz" moves, are just moves.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I'd never call myself a juggler. I have an idea of juggling in my head and poi is only an alternative offshoot of juggling (as is diabolo)... I somehow think it's disrespectful to jugglers if I claim to be one. There are many "object manipulation arts" that aren't juggling.

I do think it's an issue though. It certainly came up at the Europian Juggling Convention. Though there were many poi people there, looking around I realized that I am NOT a juggler.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:here in the UK and scotland there is a distinct relationship with juggling and all things circusy.
i normally teach people poi at the flying teapots circus which is the sheffield university juggling club, we do workshops in diabolo, devil sticks, poi, staff, meteors, hats, boxes and ball manipulation, ladders, unicycling, juggling, tonight we had a workshop in breaking.

i think this will differ in every country and we can all have a different association with juggling, as me and NYC mentioned this in another thread, where i said look for juggling clubs and you may find poi spinners, there isnt that kind of association in NY as there is in the UK.
therefor i agree with pele, that we are manipulating balls on string, there for can be put in the catagory of manipulation as with jugglers. i think any prop i mentioned you can put in to the came catagory... not sure about the unicycling though!


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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