Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Beats 4 moves and Beats 4 music

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SaggyD


member
Location: United States, WA

Total posts: 56
  Posted: Sup Fellas?

Alright, I've been spinning for quite some time now, and I just read the post about slow versus fast, and some of u mention going with the beat of the music.

Now I do this as well, but I like to Climax with a new move as the music Climaxes.

All Techno (which is what I spin to) goes in 4 beats then every 16 or 32 something happens then on the 64th something major changes. So, there are certain things that will come out just perfect to the music.

I will share an example:

Alright you take the TTN which is normally basically a 2 beat move in my eyes, forward and back alternating. To mix this up to the music I like to start doing the TTN for 8 Beats, (Forward Back Forward Back, Forward Back Forward Back)then I throw in some wraps, (this'll be hard to explain) I wrap right Poi over left arm on top, then pull out with right hand and push forward (1st beat) Then I wrap my left Poi over right arm pull back and Push forward (2nd Beat) Then I put the right Poi under my left arm and wrap it, pull it out and push forward (3rd Beat) Then I take my left arm and wrap that under my right arm (Beat 4). Do it 2 times, then you have 8 beats ontop of the 8 original beats from no wraps and you have 16 beats which will climax to the music, thus allowing u to bust out something cooler Like BTB weave or 5 Beat Weave circles, which don't go to the music at all becase 5 does not equal 4, and neither does a normal 3 beat weave.

I would Like to here some of the other peoples combos that go well with the music because I notice that people Love watching people climax with the music because it is a whole different element of control, and takes extreme concentration!

Please Share!

Peace,
SaggyD


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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


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Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
  Posted:Hmm, I've written a fair amount of "electronic music" though I have to say my attempts at dance music were dismal failures, in fact the term 'laughable' would not be an exaggeration. I certainly write in quite a variety of rhythms...I'm fond of alternating 5/8 with 6/8 or, more classically, 6/8 with 3/4 ("I like to be in Amer-i-ca/OK by me in Amer-i-ca!").

It mystifies me that people don't like to dance to jagged assymetrical rhythms. *I* certainly do; that's why I write that way. Wrote a whole piece once where there were about four voices, and you couldn't find the 'one' in any of them -- and if you picked a 'one' for one voice, it wouldn't match the other three voices, and it'd be in a different place next time around. People who listen to it either make me turn it off right away, or get this very far-off kind of look...

I'm evil like that.

I'm pretty new to this Poi thing, but it sure seems to me like most of the music I've heard, even Trance, has beats that are much shorter (i.e. faster) than the "beats" you talk about when you say e.g. "five beat weave." I thought this piece I know (not mine) called "Fire Dance" would be perfect for, uh, fire dancing, but the really cool part is in a fast 7/8, and I bet nobody can do a 7-beat weave (is there such a thing?) fast enough to keep up. (Well, maybe NYC. I'll ask him next time I see him.)

The way the singers sing it, it's actually more of a 3.5/4 time. A measure goes quarter, quarter, quarter, eighth. So maybe more of a truncated 4/4 than anything else.

Sigh. Talking about music is like dancing about architecture.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


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Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
  Posted:Oh, and: very densely-patterned music gives you something to match up to with just about any move you care to make. At least, that's true when you're just dancing. Since most people aren't so good at dancing, "dance music" tends to be very loosely patterned, with big thuds on the beats so they won't get lost.

Y'all are way better than that, right? A good dancer can dance to anything; I want to believe the same is true of Poi.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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mo-seph


mo-seph

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Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
  Posted:Written by:
It mystifies me that people don't like to dance to jagged assymetrical rhythms.



You and me both, mate biggrin . Similarly the idea that you have whole nights of music based round a single rhythm (e.g. a trance/techno/hip hop night...) seems strange... The thing that makes me smile most when I'm out dancing is when the music catches me out.

Putting my rhythm geek hat on, 7/8 kinda *is* 3.5/4 - that is, with 7/4, you'd expect 7 full beats, so it would be like a bar of 4 and a bar of 3 (for example), but with 7/8 you'd only expect 3 and a half beats - like a truncated 4 or an extended 8. Most of the 7/8s I've heard have been 2 2 3, or 2 2 2 1 depending on how much the last quaver gets accented. biggrin I love 7, I think it's got the nicest groove. I don't like to do wierdy time signatures just for the hell of it, they've got to groove.

But getting back to the spinning, I don't always find that my sense of beats to spin to always lines up with muisical beats. I think quite often I like to line up patterns and bars, so I might fit a 3 beat pattern to a 4 beat bar. I find the beats in spinning much less critical than the beats in music - there's still a rhythm there, but it doesn't work in quite the same way. That might be partly cos I tend to do staffs more than Poi, so I can maul the timing more ubbangel, but I think it's also that beats are a way of counting for spinning, rather than an intrinsic part of the structure - a rhythm is defined by the temporal arrangement of sound, while a "move" (if they exist wink ) is defined by an ongoing set of *spatial* relationships (which do of course have to be embedded in time, but you get what I mean, perhaps...)

Written by:
A good dancer can dance to anything; I want to believe the same is true of Poi.



Yes mate. I'd spin happily to early choral music, or flamenco, or electroacoustic craziness or anything you wanted to throw at me.

But having a good beat does make it easier biggrin


monkeys ate my brain

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
  Posted:A lot of good psytrance has variations between time signitures, the best known example is probly Hallucinogen : Jiggle of the Sphinx which plays between a waltz and 4/4 (it varies over time).

as for dancing on the beat, everyone reckons I dance on the beat, but only with buttefly variations. when weaving it, I just cruise around and do turns and stuff which match the rythms and stuff. I think phrase matching is more important than matching individual beats. theres not much expression if you only match beats...

Josh


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
  Posted:Ha, this maybe an old thread but I still need help, as I'm still pretty ignorant of all this beat stuff.

I still like to spin on the beat, especially with butterfly and parallel moves because I find that without music spinning just becomes practice and doing tricks.

My favourite is spinning to (what I'm told is) 7/8. Someone told me that 7/8 was marching music. Anyhow, I associate this with "running man", but I'm not really sure of the tempo. If the music is to quick for me, then I just slow down and do everything at half pace. Confused or what?
confused confused confused


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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mo-seph


mo-seph

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Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
  Posted:OK, probably being slightly pedantic, but I think clearer understanding of rhythm is a good thing, and it always helps if everyone's speaking the same language biggrin

<rhythm_geek_hat>
Josh - Jiggle of the Sphinx stays in 4 all the way through, but goes into triplet feel halfway (changes from 4/4 to 12/8). There's still 4 beats in the bar, but they get divided into 3 rather than 2. Waltzes are in 3/4, so there's 3 beats to each bar.

Stone - It's unlikely that what you're spinning to is 7/8 (got any names?) especially if someone's calling it march music. Marches are pretty much always in 4, as you need that to go "left, right, left, right" to, and only a very small percentage of modern music is in anything other than 4
</rhythm_geek_hat>


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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
  Posted:monkey's are your brain wink

I don't know Jiggle of the Sphinx but why is it 12/8? I'm just wondering why there is a distinction made betwen 6/8 and 12/8 in general?


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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mo-seph


mo-seph

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Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
  Posted:The /8 signatures are one of the more confusing bits of time signatures - it's not the most elegant notation. The distinction between 6/8 and 12/8 is the same as the one between 4/4 and 2/4; it's not a completely scientific one, really - it just makes more sense to count 4 beats to the bar for these rather than 2. In some sense it's about the length of the smallest repeating unit, but really a lot of it is convention, and what feels natural. And people don't always agree... For example in latin music, some people would write a clave (the basic rhythm) as two bars of 4/4, using quavers, and some would write it as one bar of 4/4, using semiquavers. They'd all tap their feet at the same rate though wink

Hmmm, it's really hard to talk about this without being able to tap fingers and listen to the same bit of music. I guess mostly you know where the beat is. So then you'd have to count how many are in a bar, and then if it's triplet feel multiply by three and put an 8 on the bottom. Simple smile

Oh, and xopher - dancing about architecture - isn't that pk?


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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
  Posted:wooo ok - thats for clearing that up smile

Josh


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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


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Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
  Posted:Mo-seph - I got it from Laurie Anderson...not sure if it was hers originally.

Stone: The thing about triple rhythms is that the beat unit is a dotted note. Thus 6/8 isn't six beats, each an eighth note; it's two beats, each a dotted quarter (quaver). So (taking each syllable as an eighth note) 6/8 goes ONE-and-and-TWO-and-and, whereas 3/4 (superficially the same, reducing fractions and all) goes ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and.

So then you see 7/8. WTF?!?! It can be either 7 beats, or some combination of duple and triple beats adding up to 7 eighth notes. Or (oddly) it can be three duples an a half beat. So two measures of it go ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and-FOUR-ONE-and... That means there's no way to count it just by knowing that it's in seven; and it can shift ways of counting from one measure to the next, or even between parts. So you can't necessarily stay on the beat, because the beat keeps moving.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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