Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Waist wrap clarification...

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NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
OK... i've done the searches and now I'm officially confused.

Is a waist wrap simply a transition from forward to reverse weave in the wall plane??

I had always thought it was that Cassandra/Dom move where you get your arms all the way behind your back and do a circle in front (on your left) with arms twisted behind the back, then behind, then infront (on your right)...

I realize that there is no such thing as fact so just chime in on what your opinion is.

NYC- alone in a city where the people don't waist wrap.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


GlåssDIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom


Posted:
pm me your e-mail address and i'll answer

AdeSILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia


Posted:
good question NYC - any chance of sharing your answer here glass?

ade


vain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
glass dont even spin poi so how would he know?


i want an argument god damn it, i think of waist wraps as a family of moves just like these fountains.

AdeSILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia


Posted:
Alrightio then, Trait of 1112, what's your take on waist wraps?


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Trait Of 1112:
glass dont even spin poi so how would he know?
that may have changed since saturday...

i agree with pk that waistwraps are a whole bunch of moves (a 'family' if you will);
front ww, back ww and full ww with four variations in each of these;
fwd or rev with either a top carry or a bottom carry.
full is hard to explain.

then there's like 'shoulder wraps' which are just 2bt upper fountains

anyway, this lovely post will teach you most of what you need to spin waistwraps. after that you just need to learn carry's to connect all those two-beat weaves up.

hopefully glass will explain properly tomorrow

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


GlåssDIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom


Posted:
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
OK... that's what I thought but last year I wasn't quite at the level to learn it yet so now it's all about "What did Drew say?"

Thanks for clearing that up. I will certainly start practicing my underarm weaves. Though, Once I get that I'm a bit lost what to do... but let me get that first.

I think I remember what Cass/Dom/Glass/EJCers were doing but it was such a long time ago...

Such fond memories...

{breaks into tearful song}

"MEMORIES! All alone in the moonlight I can smile at the old days I was beautiful then I remember the time I knew what happiness was Let the memory live again"

{It's from CATS people... sorry, maybe it's a New York City thing...}

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Wot's the problem NYC?

quote:
Is a waist wrap simply a transition from forward to reverse weave in the wall plane??
I would say yes. Though you can go high (upper fountain) low (lower fountain), btb and link em all toghther and add other stuff like doubles.

The waistwrap is a two-beat clubswinger move done in wall plane. So you need to be able to do good hip-circles or hip mills. There is no "three-beat weave" as such. However, when you add the "under and over" you do get a "three-beat weave". Try adding this when you are turned to one side. Cross to the other side and you get a rev weave (few to rev). Then go for the double (aka 5-beat weave").

Also, have you checked Glasse's comments in the
waist wrap thread?


Some of my comments from the club swinging thread:
quote:
The waist wrap being a 2-beat move, with the 1st circle under the arm, 2nd belly button, 3rd under the other arm, with the carry/pass back to the start (123-carry/pass) The fountain being a 3-beat weave to reverse 3-beat weave. All in wall plane. From wot I can gather, Schatz calls em fountains, where as everyone else call em waist wraps. I like glass's definition. It makes an important distinction b/t the 2 and 3 beat moves, and it fits in with the HOP poi definition.
I have taken coleman's advice and suggest that for more info on waist wraps, check p2 of the club swinging thread.

Hope this helps. Cheers

[ 23. May 2003, 15:21: Message edited by: Stone ]

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


vain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by coleman:
quote:
Originally posted by Trait Of 1112:
glass dont even spin poi so how would he know?
that may have changed since saturday...

good cos drew is *shite* and needs to learn more (damn i will say any thin to make him not give up)


you missed all the butterfly waistwraps and windmill variations from the waist wrap familly.

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Trait Of 1112:
windmill variations from the waist wrap family
eh?

Do you mean stuff like one hand above the head while the other is doing a waistwrap stretch?

or something completely and entirely different?

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
i'm afraid you might want to take my dodgy description of a fountain down stone.
i got the in front/behind bits all mixed up - the move goes from hip to shoulder behind, from shoulder to shoulder in front (no windmill ), from shoulder to hip behind and from hip to hip in front.
will go edit now.

i watched the gandini clubswinging video again recently to sort myself out here - and i still would highly recommend it.
incidentally, the two little mistakes that have been cited in the past are definitely there - for some reason the fountain is shown with the beats counted at about 8 o'clock and the lower fountain is shown as 3bt cf to rev 3bt cf rather than 2bt with a carry (disputed move name i know but in the context they are showing it, it should be 2bt ).

pk - yep, you're right mate, although i think windmill variations are what i was calling 'shoulder wraps' or upper fountains.
proper bf ww would seem to work best in split-time (as then transitions are the same as the cf versions). i can only do one of them though.
maybe i'll get them sorted one day but there are so many variations cos you can offset them.

fancy having a go at defining the bf side of the ww family?!!???

was thinking about this a while ago and you can sort of do vertical ww's too. they look a bit one sided cos they don't wrap around anything as such - they just do the 'front back front carry' sequence.
might be nice if it was spun by two people at once though

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Posted:
Waits wraps are a movement/combo family can be done at the Front and BTB and combos...also the same action can be applied in Butterfly toy movement.

This family can be done on poi, clubs and doubles (and in a way you can do it with single stick, by holding on to the stick with both hands throughout the movement - indeed this is one of my favourite ways to teach WW).

While its done normally with 2 beats at each position, it can be done with 4 beats (5 beat weave wrist action in wall plane produces 4 beats at each position).

I'm sure there is a shitload of other variations that I cant think of right now (or that I flat out dont know )

Josh

GlåssDIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom


Posted:
cole you do btb BF WW already and on 2 to one and it looks damn good

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
The extra circles, could come about when you go from lower to upper fountain.

For more info. on waist wraps you can check out mr coleman's and others sound advice in the club swinging thread.

Cheers

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


vain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
two to one on a BTB butterfly WW?? *I'm off i quit*

[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
hold on, do you mean twio poi into i hand?

I gotta split time btb ww, but what is 2 2 2? (or whatever)

N

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
2:1 - one poi goes twice the speed of the other.

so in btb bf ww: as one is coming btb the other does 2:1 for two (regular) beats.
i usually split it so that the poi going double uses two circles to get up to shoulder height (while the other does one circle btb) and then drops down with two circles to slot into the ww bit with the other poi.
then swap (1:2 if you like) for the ww on the other side.

i know smallboy does split-time btb bf ww and it looks superb (not sure if he does split-time 2:1 though ).

i don't know what 2 2 2 is but i like the idea of btb bf ww into one-handed bf...

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
C'mon Cole, you know you wanna give us a few butterfly waist wrap descriptions. Don't necessarily need every detail cause I'm sure it's pretty intuitive knowing how other waist wraps work. Then again I could be wrong, so I'll just say pleeeeaaseee.

I'll give you one of my orange tictacs...

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
orange are my favourites as well so i'll have a go.

like you say this is fairly intuitive if you know cross-follow ww's but its not so easy to learn to spin if you don't...

start with lower outward reels - that's rev butterfly with hands at your sides, each hand alternating circles one in front, one behind. for each beat, one hand is in front whilst the other is behind.
now choose a hand to do the btb ww sequence and just stick it in - 1 circle in front, 1 circle btb, 1 circle in front on other side with arm btb, carry back to start position (in this case it'll be a top carry - go from in front on one side to in front on the other by tracing out just the top half of the circle btb).

you have a choice of what you want to do with your other hand during this but the neatest combo i've been shown (by plinkabob, via glass from steve. apparently ) just has the hand continuing with the reel's back-front motion throughout.
doing that means you never get the poi both in front or both behind your body at once and gives it all a nice familiar ryhthm.

seems like it shouldn't fit but it does.


you got any orange smarties over there aswell...?

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Nice one dude, I'll have a go at that this evening. Here's a bag of 'em to keep you going till I'm over the water this summer


Non-Https Image Link


Erm don't have any smarties though, real sorry man.

Thanks a mill...

[ 24. May 2003, 06:27: Message edited by: DeepSoulSheep ]

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Erm, I'm suffering from the same confusion as the btb butterfly weave me thinks. When you bring say your right arm around the back of the body to butterfly infront, should right poi come outside the left or the inside. The outside seems easier but doesn't feel quite right plus I was looking at "how to" and pk and bluecat seem to be bringing it round on the inside.

So is it the inside then....does that even make sense?

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


.Morph.SILVER Member
addict
669 posts
Location: Lancashire, UK


Posted:
The right poi goes inside your left arm:

Right infront-right side, left behind-left side,
Right behind-right side, left infront-left side,
Right infront-left side, left behind-left side,
Right behind-right side, left infront-left side,
replace left knee cap & try again .

vain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by DeepSoulSheep:
The outside seems easier but doesn't feel quite right plus I was looking at "how to" and pk and bluecat seem to be bringing it round on the inside.

i'm in utter confusion my friend i keep reading about BTB butterfly weaves...
i think what we are dealing with is the butterfly wasit wrap not weave because its in a BTB wall plane. [i think of BTB btterfly weave as BTB but in side planes which makes things real difficult and a move that i generally have never played with.


so... from you watching how to! you got it and followed correctly just like a leaming . easiest wa to describe hot to do a butterfly waist wrap is : if your doing it on the left side of your body, your right poi makes a beat behind you, move your left behind you and take your right through.[this is inside] it took me a day to figure this out on my own because i was doing it the same way as you [outside] when doing outside, it feels completly wrong because you left hand will be in the way and you probably get a tangle, but don not despair learn both beacuse if you learn the out side you can do a transfer from side to side in split time or same time but same time being that little bit more difficult.

i much sooner play with insides, and you can transfer it to corkscrew and back out to BTB the best transfer i have played with.

well i hope that clarifies a few things.
be kewl

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
I still want to know what in blue blazes 'windmill variations of the waistwrap family' are...

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


vain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
one hand is BTB doing wall plane natural side arm is over shoulder doing some shit... kinda like a seperation. you can do them easier with butterflies.

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Thx

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Yea, that makes sense with the left one coming back behind while the right comes through the inside. Thankington indeedington.

When I mentioned the btb buterfly weave (refering to the problem I'm having in the other thread in poi moves) ...because I though the left one had to be in front on the waistwrap at the same time as the right one being infront I was having the same problem as I was having with the butterfly weave, which is how to get the hand coming across the back to squeeze through.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


vain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
just keep left in front while right does the beat behind- then push the right through and the left back means that you dont have so far to reach once your on the inside, outside means you gotta twist more to keep planes.

DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Right got it and it feels so good it must be bad for you. I was missing the right behind right side beat which was completely messing things up. No wonder it seemed impossible.

Thanks everyone.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
I can feel how that twist really does make it plane pop in too....nice.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


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