Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Cyclic deconstructionism within the framework post-modernist poi

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:so i hang around loads in poi moves but have never really contributed anything more than variations and clarifications.
my intention was always to share ideas through video but i have neither the time right now nor the skills to put together what i would like to.
so no video, yet i still fail to post about new stuff so here is my attempt to rectify that

i have been playing around with some poi recently and have been swinging lots of moves with pendula (or pendulums if you want to be wrong ).

i think they are fun for these reasons:
firstly you have less control - the speed of the poi is dependent on the length of the string all of a sudden.
secondly, don't some of you just get bored of circles sometimes...?

started off doing these by spinning a buzzsaw and taking one poi higher up (from the side view you get two stacked circles in the buzzsaw, one on top of the other) and stalling the top one into a pendulum.
all credit to josie fluoro for this initial spark of inspiration.
have recently been swinging them in the wall plane out of weaves or butterflies, sometimes with one poi spinning and one poi swinging and sometimes with both swinging (spin = a circle, swing = a pendulum).

some nice stuff to do with pendula:

transitions where the end of one swing becomes the start of a new one (ie. changing the pivot point [moving your hand] without making a circle to get to the new swing).
parallel pendula above and next to each other, split-time pendula when they pivot from the same point.
using circles to switch between parallel and split-time pendula.
changing string length to change swing speed.
isolated pendula (or 'shopping bags').





indispensible tip: i find while swinging pendula it helps to repeat the mantra 'tick-tock'.

[ 31. July 2003, 00:09: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 4993
Posted:bout time some one posted these. cheers cole

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Chorin
BRONZE Member since Jul 2002

member
Location: Dorking, Surrey, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 217
Posted:errrm? huh? I'm confussed and confuddled?

Dilbert's Words of Wisdom -
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow is not looking good either!
You are slower than a herd of turtles stampedeing through peanut butter!

Oh yeah.... Don't tell the ants

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:swing one or both of your poi like this.


Non-Https Image Link


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:
ok, mr physics so how do I turn down gravity in real life?


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:It's like gillidulums. (word giligan+pendulum)

Also that clock doesn't keep time.


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:glass, please do a search before you post

this has been discussed exhautively and i can't be bothered to type it all out again.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Aster, I figure with the contintent spread we've got that clock is always right for somebody On hop

oh yea cole, there it is
in a topic called
"NEW POI MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

which is all about how to make coloured flames
and weather ball chain is better than wire and what is TTN.

TTFN
Glass

(qwarr, old skool cynical HOP humour post)


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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:pendulum airwraps- while one poi is stalled, airwrap/grab it near the wick with the other moving poi and (with a little isolation type motion in the stalled hand) you can get it moving again, moving it into one of your airwrap tricks. or you can just leave the pendulum chain tight, recoil the airwrapped moving wick, and unwind it, leaving the pendulum wick in another pendulum swing. pendulums are fun with airwraps...

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:and if you want to get realy jiggy with it... you can do a "hyperloop pendulum" or "hyperdulum" as I like to call them...

(sorry guys, I couldn't resist... )


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:yeah, they're badass
seen it done with gillies (the middle bit of a pendulum ) by bluecat @ the bjc

exiting hyperloop/airwrap to leave one in a pendulum

[adds more fuel to the theory that arashi's poi are actually real live snakes that do exactly what he tells them]

additional warning: never, ever 'get jiggy' with this move - jiggy pendula can seriously damage your health.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:"all jiggy were the pendula, and the mome wraths outgrabe"

BTW so sorry if i made you think i was actually any good (racked himself again real good yesterday )


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:so as it turns out, pendula are in schatz's club swinging book!

was having a bit of a clearout last night and found that little demon of a book under a pile of stuff.
i flicked through and stopped right @ the beginning of the pendulum chapter

i realised a little while ago that pendula would be loads easier with clubs cos you still have complete control over their speed but schatz still suggested some nice stuff that works well with poi...

whereas i've been swinging them from the hands (ie, same size radius as normal wrist circles) it bases most of the stuff on full arm and elbow circles.

mixing full arm and elbow pendula (that is, changing the pivot from shoulder to elbow) has the lovely effect of changing the pendulum length mid swing.

example:
in parallel, start with left arm out straight to the left at shoulder level and right hand by right shoulder, pointing same direction as left poi/club.
swing both arms down and to the right to end up with arms in opposite orientations to the original ones (right arm out straight, left hand in front of left shoulder, poi/clubs pointing to the right.

combine this with wrist pendula (its super tricky to get tight) and you get variable speed, variable size pendula.

nice.

[ 27. May 2003, 23:02: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Funny, I usually check out HoP while I'm doing something else in another computer window. Right now I'm writing a pendulum exam for my physics kids while reading this...

Period = 2 pi (length/gravity)^1/2

Frequency = 1/Period

Shhh! Here's a question from my exam:

4) You notice that pendulum below your grandfather clock swings back and forth once every 2.6 seconds. How long is the chain that the lamp is hanging from?

Don't tell anyone in my 5th period, OK?

So actually you can tell the length of your poi if you don't have a ruler. Just use a clock and a calculator.

Did you know that Galileo pattented the idea of using pendulums to measure heart rates? So rather than saying you had a heart rate of 60 BPM you would say you had a heart rate equal to a pendulum of say... 13 cm. This was especially useful becuase the clocks back then sucked.

Oh... and as anyone will tell you Glass, you don't need to change gravity to change the speed of swinging, just change the length.

Sorry, Teachable moment.

I'll have to try and incorporate pendulums into poi as well. Though we had been just calling them stalls.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:aww man, thanks for this, its really fun is it not?

L8r

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Was playing with these today and had some good fun chasing the sun stall to pundula and there's some fun to be had with one arm penduluming(?!) while the other is doing straight arm stuff while turning. Tis defferent anyway...

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:So it's a record..I am posting in Poi Moves section more than once per every other month, as per my usual. Mark the date on the calendar!

Anyway...NYC, this is what I learned...Stalls can be done at any point in the spin cycle and are when the poi actually stop mid air and then change.

With the pendula (how I learned from clubs) is that they do not fall into the middle of a circle, but rather only ever travel a maximum of 180 degrees, and do not stop, but fluidly change directions.

Whether this is right or wrong, I do not know. But it is how I understand the differences and it does really work for me. And yes I am aware that to change direction does cause a stop for a split second, but in a stall it is a more pronounced stop.

A couple hints on learning these that might be of interest, well they were for me. First, the heavier the poi, the easier a pendula is.
Next, as mentioned before, move more than your wrists for this. From the shoulder is a great way to learn this, as it really helps with the control. Here is the challenge. Swing your arm from the shoulder, as if you were walking. Just casually alternating them. Now...try to get your poi to stay straight with your arm, as if it were a staff not an independently minded chain. You will learn that if you go too high, the natural momentum wants to carry the poi into completing the circle. Too little and it kind of wiggle waggles back and forth. I don't have this fluid yet at all, but it is better than when I started, and it helps with body awareness and with really learning to control this move.

Anyhoo...thought this might help.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:hmm been working on a phat bit of post modernist
poi spinning this evening...

Not pendula, but, as satre would have it,
anti-pendula. defining the predominant concept of
the distinction between masculine and feminine.

Juxtaposing and alternating classical pendulums
with the self perpetuating paradox of inverted
pendulums. (within a thread the needle framework.)


you know. Deconstructing the cyclic nature of poi
to explore the cultural discourse that the task of
the poi swinger is one of social comment.

Inverted pendulums are getting reasonably solid
for me but i think it will take another big
sessions to get them clean.

Glass
______________________________________
Circles are sooo, last year.


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Your going to have to explain this anti-pendulum/inverse pendulum stuff a little bit further.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:quote: you know. Deconstructing the cyclic nature of poi
to explore the cultural discourse that the task of
the poi swinger is one of social comment.

No ... actually I don't.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:(now the poetic art critic)
with your incomplete cycles,
one is immediately reminded
of hesse
the incomplete man in our society
with incomplete factions of emotions
warring, unable to complete himself

struggling against the forces within
and without
his psyche bounces perpetually from happiness to depression.

just did a fire show consisting of
conicals, "gillies" and stalled horizontals/pendulums moves.
so does that make me a pessimist?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Astar:
Your going to have to explain this anti-pendulum/inverse pendulum stuff a little bit further. didn't your mummy ever teach you the magic word...?

he hasn't told me what they are either - just more of that 'work it out yourself bollocks' that all these old skool heads think makes them look cool.

i'm still working on it drew but gravity has been getting the better of me.
had my first ever 'i'm loads better at poi than in real life' dream the other night though.
i could catch everything and spin *all* of the stuff i can now but isolated.
mmmm, dreams *...nods off to sleep again...*


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:please.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:quote: circles are soo last year ROFL

inverse pendulums

L*r

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:So would the next logical step be to not use poi at all when poi spinning? That'd be pretty innovative indeed.

Poiless poi. It's the new black.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:____________________________________________________
Manual quote of NYC:
"So would the next logical step be to not use poi at all when poi spinning? That'd be pretty innovative indeed. "
____________________________________________________

Don't be a square, get hip with the new groove...cricky yank, you're so backward, your almost retro-cool again.

The dematerialist movement, is sooooo the year before last year . (i kid you not) shadow poi back in the days when cantus used to be funny (in this case... very funny)


ps. I havent been working on...
Double pendula: simple system exhibiting chaotic behaviour

Non-Https Image Link

Mathematical chaos its fcuking neo-Shatz,
Thinks....chaos spinning would be right if it was not clean.

hugs
Glass


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:that chaotic behaviour...
it actually seems to be fairly predictable in this case?

and glass - you want to see chaos spinning just give me ten pints and then get me to spin
like you said though, its all technically correct...

i'm thinking that coupled oscillator problem may put an end to the double aerotech nets idea before it even begun - you'd be reduced to just spinning 'circles' *spit*


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Laughs at arashi wicked
you get it....

post-modernist poi on stage, to exist in life, as art.

Froust maintains that one should sully not, ones art by cheapening it to mere, commercial worth. In the act of performace, the coin, a token manifestation of the female demon, is, the king. Baudilaiere maintains a rejection of these situationist concepts and acceptance of post-aesthetic poi manipulation as the true path.

Arashi, may I postulate, not a pessimist, as such, but a neo-pessimist. You see textual theory states that the purpose of the participant in poi is social comment, but, only if, consciousness is interchangeable with truth; otherwise, consciousness is part of the meaninglessness of narrativity.


Inverted pendulums. analysis of the equations. theres got to be 6 ways of doing them
1) temporarily temporaly disruption - locally reverse time
2) locally reverse gravity
3) make your poi a negative length eg minus 56cm (those of you who complain that length is a scalar, not a vector, and therefore this is not possible, are refered to items 1) and 2) of this list )
4) The very difficult way (that but does not require knowledge of Quantum electro dynamics and phase passed self interloping flux capacitor)
5) magnets...
6) big fans

finally:
Hamiltonian equations suggest the use of presemantic nihilism to attack substructural cultural theory.
which is probably a good note to end on.
or b flat.

Hugs
Drew
____________________________
ok ok, I'll get back to work.
Damn this is fun.


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Glass, your post modernist poi movement is nothing but poi masturbation for the desensitized and soulless.

The true way forward for poi is the through the Surrealist Manifesto. It is necessary to remove the process of producing from the conscious mind, hence liberating freedom.

Poi should express the true functioning of thought! Do not distil the inner workings of the human condition into a bland neo-modernist social comment, but expand and liberate human imagination to become an expression of true human nature. Let the poi describe your subconscious reality and release you from your stultifying conformity to the neo modernist ideal!


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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hey Glass, that little graphic looks like a useful tool in teaching poi moves.

does anyone else think it look a tiny tiny tiny bit like a straight arm swinging a poi?

There can'tbe much code behind, maybe Dom can make up a few more for us, rather than using that terribly rude formal word for *&&^$%.



And yes, as a father I am now all prim and proper when i want to be, and then all stupid and childish when i want to be (see the water fight thread).


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Aren't those just astrojax?

And 'retrocool'? Will rich kids be buying me at thrift shops and wearing me to look poor?

Nice.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

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