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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Concept moves and why make lists?

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Jez


addict
Location: UK, London

Total posts: 642
Posted:Ok a topic starter and all ideas ecouraged. We have been talking recently about "concept" moves. These are moves which are brand new but in themselves upon up several variations to unlimited possibilities. Please note you do not have to be able to perform them as long as you know that they would work if you had the skill.

For example talked about recently air wraps are such a move that is brand new but has loads of variations.

I will provide a couple to start.

One handed butterfly combos. In my opinion one handed butterfly was not explored but after playing with them I have found at least 20 variations and follow up moves which use one handed butterflies.

Quarter time butterflies more functional as one handed but allows the introduction of movement in 2 planes instead of one during transitions. (up and down with left and right) ask me in person to show you may make video sometime if confused.

on a side note (I think air wraps are actually quite old moves previously called suicides but I may be wrong!!)

Please add more and the rule is the move must be quite new (6 months old at most and it must have at least 2 other variations). In other words I don't wanna hear all the variations of the weave or butterflies unless it is groundbreaking!!) I know I broke my own rule with the one handed butterfly but I thing the variations are groundbreaking enough to be included.

[ 15. November 2002, 08:42: Message edited by: Jez ]


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Errrm - I really can't understand that first paragraph...

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Jez


addict
Location: UK, London

Total posts: 642
Posted:Sorry got distracted halfway through it should read

Ok a topic starter and all ideas ecouraged. We have been talking recently about "concept" moves. These are moves which are brand new but in themselves open up into several other new moves and possibly change the way people think of current limitations. Please note you do not have to be able to perform them as long as you know that they would work if you had the skill.


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:Hey there Jez - great thread. Can't contribute just yet as I have enough difficulty understanding the things I can already do but I'll keep reading this one - there should be some nice ideas

xx


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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Jez


addict
Location: UK, London

Total posts: 642
Posted:ok I will provide another example.

Using 4 poi. Two one handed butterflies in different time to each other viewed at the correct angle looks like a winking star. Have only managed to do a couple of beats of this move before I mess up. Also using two one handed butterflies shift the planes across your body alternately to create double staff like moves. Also have never tried it but using 2 one handed butterflies as before using different timing you should be able to perform thread the needle using the two butterflies.

These moves are hard to explain but if anyone is confused let me know and I will explain further.


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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MrConfused
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

MrConfused

addict
Location: I wish I knew

Total posts: 529
Posted:Not sure about that TTN thing with 2 one handed BF's. Unless you're using very short strings and splitting your arms quite wide, I think one string would end up wrapping when you try to move it over the other arm. I could be wrong, though. I admit I know nothing about 1 handed BF.

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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Jez


addict
Location: UK, London

Total posts: 642
Posted:You do seperate the butterflies and use short strings. However it alternates between hands seperate and hands together, while the poi are at opposite ends to each other the hands can touch.

[ 13. November 2002, 05:31: Message edited by: Jez ]


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:only 20 one hand butterfly moves?
i have probably 50 down on paper that are all possible moves. but the time will come before the moves list is availiabe so far 170+ butterflys with one handed stuff and 130+ weaves and more still being added.......this is a work in progress. keep the ideas coming man its all good we like these threads.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Jez


addict
Location: UK, London

Total posts: 642
Posted:Only about 20 I can perform. I have so many others in ideas and loads that I can half do however it would take too long to list them!!! However these 20 also do not include 4poi butterfly combos of which there are 100's more most of them are relations to double staff moves.

'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:Man.. I need to start to practise more...

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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Liquid Pop


member
Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada

Total posts: 62
Posted:hey poi'd & insane where do you have all these moves down on paper??? how can i get my hands on these??? i thought i was getting skilled but apperently i havent even learned to crawl yet. you guys out there must me just amazing. maybe someday i will se you poi it up. ttyl
Buddy


if practice makes perfect, and no one is perfect, then why practice?

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:thinking, writing and playing is allways a good method of learning new stuff. yesterday i learned 4 variations of one move just from a waistwrap.
i agree doing all the moves is a little hard and does take time but we all pretty young on this board and have so much time in which to fullfil our goals here and create some thing for others and guide people along and pass on ideas but not give all our hard work away if you catch my drift.
only time will tell how to get hold of this list but its only just starting out and needs some world wide inspiration which seems to be coming from here, so much help so far from Dom and Glass and loads of new stuff from Jo Derry so far but to sit and make sure that things are not forgoten and whats been missed so far is proving to be quite dificult, i may start to type it out and get some people to go over it and may be see whats what and what can be added....work in progress.
be kewl and happy playing.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:more thinking writing and playing today...
started typing lists out.
over 420 moves listed so far just in butterflys and one handers too, thread the needles and weaves.
erm waist wraps and corkscrews and throws and turns and wraps all yet to add.
so how big do we think we can make this list of moves?


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:How useful is it to list every minor variation of every move? (Not sarcastic but honest question...) There are some major moves but I can't imagine that some of the 420 aren't somewhat redundant. Or I really have quite a bit to learn!

[Or was that just an excuse to write 4:20 ]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:not sarcastic but honest answer - i think its very important to know all the variations of a move.

you could say that you only have to write it one way and then assume all can be reversed but that would get more confusing than explicitly stating them all i think.

as an example, i am working my way up to full waistwraps. however, i refuse to move on to the next stage before i have all variations of what i can do at the moment down. i can do all the front ones now for example which include both directions, left or right hand leading, with either top or bottom carries. when i move onto the back waistwrap i'll learn all four(?) variations of that too before attempting to link to get a full ww.
this way, when i do get to full ww's, i will have all the tools to do them any way i please.

so for someone as picky as me it would be pretty beneficial to have a fully comprehensive move list.

as far as i'm concerned only with *full* move sets can you begin to just spin freely rather than 'cycle through the moves that you can do'.

eg. i can only do a split-time butterfly weave when doing a forwards butterfly on my right hand side. this means i feel limited in what i can do during a spin and conciously have to set myself in this way before i go into a bf weave.

i'll leave it to pk to work out how to classify everything though! good luck man and if you ever need an extra proof reader, just give me a shout


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Liquid Pop


member
Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada

Total posts: 62
Posted:ok i you got like over 420 moves and variations, (love the number picked by the way) then i really must have a lot to learn cuz i might have 40 moves and variations. this list is increasing rapidly now that im reading posts on HoP but still i understand less than half of what is being said, as the closest person i know whos spins is 3000 miles away. but if you ever pass this list out i would like to see it.

if practice makes perfect, and no one is perfect, then why practice?

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Jez


addict
Location: UK, London

Total posts: 642
Posted:I agree that making lists are a good idea. When I assembled a small list I discovered that many moves I already did had not been shifted into other planes so with a quick practise and a look down the list I managed to learn many new variations and moves. Also remember an organised mind can accomplish a lot more (someone important said that once, could have been my old english teacher for all I remember!!!).

'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I tryed making a list once, about a few months after I ran into HOP. I got about three pages into it and realized it was going to tkae a while, but it did help me learn some new stuff, and new variations on stuff I knew. I can't immagine how many moves I could come up with now... probably would take several days to list all the moves I can think of now

It is good to do that though, and I haven't done it in a long time. People always forget about moves they can do, cause they are always learning new stuff. so it is good to keep a list. that way you don't have to remember ten thousand moves at once. Because when I light up I forget 95% of what I can do...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I do a list of moves to without variations.
All "tricks" have four variatons spin forward or backward turn left turn righ, all of them. I wrote down some basic setctions like
weave----------behinds
I----- ...
I----- ...
I------mills
I----- ...
I------turns
I------wraps
I------one-handed
.

butt.-------------- ...
I--------- ...
.

wraps,turns,thows, stalls.... and than in each section.....I have about 150 moves without variation...and every month new way come... generaly wit HOP


POI THEO(R)IST

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:some damn good replys here so far.
420 is allways a good number huh!!! hehe.
seems i am not the only one that thinks plays and writes. this list i am compiling is for mainly my own benefit and to benefit others.
i do agree with nyc though many moves are gonna be redundant but then agreeing with daniel tyler that when learning new moves and more new moves old ones fade away. making a list and rethinking older moves can open up your mind and think of so many basic moves that you have never thought of doing before believe me i keep thinking of more and more basic moves the more this list grows. i am hoping to ask around several people on HOP and ask for some help not as just proof readers but to see if any moves have been missed.
i think i just have too much time on my hands right now, but it all feels good to me and the more i do it the better i feel that my abilities are growing stronger.
variations are just variations and they are pretty endless you can imagine, but to open your mind and see what else can be done from some thing so simple as that first ever 2 beat weave you did.
my method right now is back to basics, moves such as listed in the jedi set are a little insignificant right now but still give hope and understanding for what is to become.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by santanatwo:
when I light up I forget 95% of what I can do...thank god - its not just me that does this then


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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