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PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Not to sound elitist because I am not, I like all the people on the board but I feel the need to ask after half the posts I have read today.....Why with all the rave sites evidentally out there, as well as the moves from this site being ripped off by rave sites, are all the glowstick spinners and ravers here at the Home of POI and FIRE TWIRLING?Okay, so maybe it is because we fire folk are just so damn cool but why aren't you having all these rave conversations on, oh I dunno, a rave site?
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Not that you aren't welcome here....*Pele covers ass to keep from being flamed*...but I feel it is a valid question that probably several of the fire folks are wondering about too. Am I right?------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


BEZERKERenthusiast
237 posts

Posted:
Correct
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FeniXTranzmember
17 posts

Posted:
okie first of all rave sites dont show alot of these great movies and help like this website does fire poi and stuff was the original fad before people used glowsticks on strings so us "ravers" use the same basic moves and do fire poiers secondly i believe you should read a bit more since all the rave topics mostly consist of topics with moves n such. alright im done okie bubyeplur to the ravers who like to enjoy twirling and i guess plur to who those who like to complain
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pjmember
277 posts
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA


Posted:
I was never really a "raver" although I used to hang out in that community and on the mailing lists. For the most part, the signal to noise ratio on rave lists is extremely low. My guess is that people are hanging out and talking here because for the most part the discussions are at least interesting and for the most part fairly lucid. Additionally, I've seen almost no attitudes and very little arguing here, which I really must say is most wonderful. Ironically, despite the whole PLUR movement, you'd be hard pressed to know about that on some rave lists.-p.

Twistmember
160 posts

Posted:
I dunno...I'm strictly fire... a lazy glimpse reveals only two or three rave related threads... so um... "all these?" Did some get deleted? Admittedly, the language one has little to do with spinning... but shoot... there've been a lot of threads that have little to do with spinning...And.... in all honesty, I would say the title is "Poi ~and~ Fire Twirling" precisely to include alternative modes of expression... so, while threads on favorite DJ's would definitely be questionable...others are pretty borderline.These are fellow spinners discussing the environment they spin in...Hmmm... and a lazy search reveals several threads on Renaissance Faires and Pennsic... is there a dif between discussing these spinning environments and the rave environment?
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tekknogurrlBRONZE Member
member
90 posts
Location: New Paltz, NY, USA


Posted:
Pele, the reason i posted about raves was because i knew there were a lot of folks here who could relate. i don't exclusively spin glowsticks, i love to spin fire as well, and it seems that the rave world and poi world overlap, and there isn't any rave site that teaches about fire poi.this messageboard is labeled "social discussion" and i think a lot of people here have social lives that involve raving. just take a look at the responses to the threads about raves and you will see how many there are.didn't mean to turn the board into a clubbing site or anything, and i can understand the aggravation. i hope the nonravers arent feeling left out. i just had a question i thought might spark some interesting convo.thanks for understanding

~K~No matter what you do, one billion Chinese won't care.


FeniXTranzmember
17 posts

Posted:
well when i think about it theres not to much to get hyped about this topic although my reply was a bit harsh to you pele i beleieve this site helps out both ppl who spin with glowsticks and fire. i can see how the off subject things come up but i mean its all good n stuff whateva its all good because we can just share new things and relate since both have many similarities indeed.

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Hmmm...Twist, if you read the Ren and Pennsic threads, they are primarily about spinning at them and meeting up.To Twist and Fenixtranz did I or did I not say you were welcome here? Did I or did I not treat "you", meaning ravers, with respect in asking my question? This has nothing to do with spinning moves and such. I am not turning this into a fire vs. stick thing, I was curious and I asked. I don't appreciate the disrespect with which you addressed me. It was uncalled for. I have never flamed nor been rude to any ravers here. I have answered many questions for both fire and stix alike so if anyone is causing hard feelings I would suggest you look inward for that. I was not aggrivated at all when I wrote my original post, if I was I would've said so. I am, however, irritated, obviously, by the defensive almost aggressive way which you addressed me. I KNOW this is the social discussion thread. I KNOW people spin stix like poi, I even have some myself for those non-fire moments, though I prefer LED's. I enjoy the off topic threads immensely and contribute to them liberally. None of these things were part of my question. What I was asking is why on this site and not on a rave site when there are obvioulsy many? Next time before you attack, understand the question and answer accordingly please.As for sites that provide moves for ravers, there are several that I have visited that provide several of the moves on this site, and in fact someone a few weeks ago posted about a site that literally took the entire listing of poi lessons from here and transplanted it to their site.Now, thank you pj for the response. That is what I wanted to hear. It is too bad that other sites can't find their way to be as friendly as this one usually is, regardless of their primary topic.TG, because of your question I was able to ask mine, so all is good, that's what this board is about. I wasn't flaming I was just asking, and it seems at least Berzerker agreed with me...thanks B. If stix are what you are into I say spin away, for I think they are beautiful against the pitch of night as much as fire is.Take Care all and please, please people stop taking these things personally. This is a group board on the internet, take it for what it is.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


BEZERKERenthusiast
237 posts

Posted:
PELE!!I didn't appreciate the way you thanked me.(tee hee)
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Posted:
I'd like to point out a couple of things;1) Poi are not always fire poi. here in Adelaide a LOT of ppl spin Poi. and a few of these spin fire poi. others (well actually only me so far!) spin comets. Spinning glowsticks is another thing.2) I think ppl like their information resources consolidated, just like a supermarket ppl prefer websites where they can get all their informaiton in the one place. I dont neccessarily agree with this, but this is the way it is, and I think thats what we are seeing here.i'd like to point out, that not all 'Ravers' will appreciate having their bandwidth wasted with rave related topics on a twirling website. If I wantt information on trance, I'll go to a trance website, i wont ask the guys on my web-dev list, cuz it'll just piss them off - even if a small proportion of them are interested, there is a time and a place. On the other hand, sometimes off-topics come back on topic. Josh

Shibakienthusiast
309 posts
Location: Tampa, Fl


Posted:
anger begets angerfrustration begets frustrationattack begets counter-attackstrife is quieted through serenityhypocrisy is quelled through nothingnesspeace be unto you all------------------We are not physical beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.~Edgar Cayce

Wow


Posted:
And...The fingerbone's connected to the wrist-bone,The wristbone's connected to theArm-bone,The Armbone's connected to the shoulder(bone?),and...umwhat were we singing about?Josh

Twistmember
160 posts

Posted:
*collapses into quiet laughter*
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Plazmamember
73 posts
Location: The Land of Tokomak


Posted:
ahh yes Josh, that's right! that we are all here because we ALL like doing the same thing, and thats spinning! no matter if its fire, sticks, comets, ect! we all love the same thing! lets not flame up at each other over such a small topic! Pele's right! I remember reading i think on this board a thread that says don't ever take anything personally. it's sad to know that there is still controversy on this board.
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I of all people understood Pele's question just fine, he's just curious as all of us maybe about something they are unsure about! As for the raver stuff, i think the reason we may talk on here is because obviously there's not very many spinners in the world period no matter what you spin, bottom line. muchless one part of the spinning world...glowstix. i think the reason people talk about raves on here is because maby at a rave or a few of them, they may only meet 2-4 other spinners (depending on where they live obviously
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) but here that's all we're about so maby it's easier b/c you have many people to talk with it about! did i just talk myself in a circle?
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i also believe in what josh said about how people use this site as a sort of "one way stop" for things, and again Pele's right and it shouldn't be used for that!on the topic of things showing up on other peoples sites, ect., i think obviously this site is getting bigger and will ONLY continue. it's sad thoe that this has happend but i think it will only continue unfortunately. as for this site alone, as new generation spinners mesh with the guru's things sort of back up, and then you have this giant mesh of people interacting and i think this is beginging to start on this board too. i've seen it happen before. this is no longer a small almost personal website, but more or less an international homepage!
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i think everyone should respect that, and at least TRY to live with the changes.lets all try to get along. Pele, i'm with you in your fustration b/c i to know what it's like. Plur! (a man that now lives by it!)ps, sorry if this is all a little off topic, sometimes i have to talk to think and i wander a bit! also, thanx if you read this far!
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------------------My World is a world of one, and in being one they Rave! My World is a Godly World and I am its master![This message has been edited by Plazma (edited 09 June 2001).]

My World is a world of one, and in being one they Rave! My World is a Godly World and I am its master!


Girl From Marsmember
168 posts
Location: Liverpool, NY, USA


Posted:
pele, i consider myself a raver. the reason i didnt' go to a rave site to post is because my primary concern when i first found this site was to learn to spin (no matter what it was i was spinning, happends to be glowsticks) and to learn moves and to meet others that spin, not others who rave. if i wanted to meet other ravers that by chance might spin then i would be on a rave site. i have learned a ton from this site and meet and talked to some awsome people, most of which have never been to a rave. i think thats what all the ravers on this site was looking for....people who just spin and a way to learn new moves.yes i have also found ones who rave on this site and we post cause it's a topic that is shared by a bunch of us. but i didnt' know they raved until i found the site to learn to spin and began talking to others.i hope that this made sense and i hope it helped answer your question. happy twirling.[This message has been edited by Girl From Mars (edited 09 June 2001).]

the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.


NYC_not_PKOne Tyred Guy
203 posts
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy


Posted:
Pele, The first time I read your post I, also, did read it as an attack. Having some experience reading your posts I was surprised and reread it to realize that it truely was a genuine and innocent question. Answering your question, I can only speak for myself. I've never seen Fire Twirling. My ONLY experience with poi has been though clubs and raves. [Pele, the rest isn't meant for you, just me getting on my soapbox again...]ANY art is going to have it's diehard purists and it's weekend wannabes. And all have value. As a swing dancer it KILLED us when that stupid GAP ad came out and all of our clubs were FLOODED with kids in Khakis trying to do flips badly. But hey, it was swing dancing...I may never be good enough to twirl fire [or even glowsticks all that well] but I enjoy the art and love this website.P.S. As a teacher I'm off this summer and would gladly take a road trip to see some quailty fire twirling... Hint, Hint.

PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug


Mystaddict
439 posts
Location: Oceanside, California, USA


Posted:
To tell the truth, I'm a raver and PELE knows this and has never disrespected me or talked down on me for being a "glowstick person". I think everyone should stop the attacks on their fellow spinner and just take the question for the question, there is some truth in what she says, I have seen the raver language post and even posted a reply on it. I think pele is a great person and since I haven't seen any disrespect, we shouldn't show any either.EricStill love you fire spinners------------------If you don't want to be an addict, don't ever start spinning.

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.


the streaking wombatmember
10 posts
Location: Los Angeles


Posted:
well, i'll reply to the initial question...it follows Girl From Mars pretty closely...i do consider myself a raver..though i don't think i've ever thought much about that classification...it's a social scene i enjoy on occasion...i did'nt hop on the internet to hang out...i was turned on to poi by a raving friend that gave me a pair as a gift...and consequently, researched, and found out, much to my amazement, you can replace the nylon streamers with fire, and have been hooked...only a couple weeks into my new obsession, i am here to soak up any knowledge i can, and perhaps make new friends on the journey...i think a big reason you will find more and more people coming here from the rave scene are those poi crafted of the nylon beanbags with the long streamers...i first saw a pair at coachella, and the ones that are uv responsive fit in very naturally into the blacklight atmosphere of raves..i think raves will be a large factor in spreading the wonder of this art of fire twirling because it is full of expressive people, and anyone who researches the latest uv toy they saw at a rave could stumble on this site...and i beleive that a few of them will be as inspired with your people's talent as i am...from a raver, thank you for being out here for me to find...i hope to learn much...i hope this will be veiwed as a relevent post to a relevent question

this fire and i dance among the stars


Posted:
"Out of sight out of mind".If you dont like something, dont look at it. I'm sure plenty of other people will be happy to pick up your slack.Anyway, a large portion of fire spinning is that it looks cool as fuck. You are going through the same motions if you are using glowsticks as Poi. Are you saying that glowsticks dont look cool? Not directed towards anyone in particular btw.Love always,Spanky

Posted:
hey spanky,a couple of things I thought of from reading your post;1) due to the nature of this BBS, its simply not possible to choose to not see the glowstick / rave POV as put forward by the growing number of PLURites on this board
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eg I start a thread on wick construction, and it (perfectly innocently) turns in to a thread on cooking instructions for dead glowsticks. kinda hard to ignore that now isnt it?2) Perhaps from the perspective of someone who has never fire twirled glowsticks and fire look similar. but once you have held fire in your hands (or more correctly felt the burn when you've stuffed up) you will know what the real difference is.Yes - the kenetics are very similar. however the risk factor is much much greater with fire, and I believe this adds a level of difficulty (and excitement) that you just dont have with glowsticks. Just try an arm wrap with fire chains and you will see how much harder it is than with glowsticks. risk of hurting yourself with this move with Glowsticks: Nil. Risk of hurting yourself with firepoi: relatively high depending on your skill.I go to Raves, although I wouldnt call myself a 'Raver' anymore. Ravers seem to get so upset over a distinction that you are drawing yourselves
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One thing I always thought was funny about hardcore Ravers is that they seem to define their group membership in terms of shared opposition...eg Police, eg Politicians, eg parents, eg religious groups etc etc
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(thats not a stab at you, just something this whole thread has reminded me of)Josh

Peregrinemember
428 posts
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA


Posted:
I would also say that people for whom spinning fire is more a spiritual activity, getting closer to an elemental force and all that, the comparison between glowsticks and fire is just not there. and for people who feel strongly connected to fire, the suggestion that fire and glowsticks are the same trivializes it. and i would say that probably for most people who do fire, its not because it looks cool (though it does) its for all that other stuff that goes on while you're doing it.if you had a choice to spin fire or glowsticks on a full moon, what would you do?so deep down isn't that what this discussion is really about ?REPULSE!Pere

mikeybmember
93 posts
Location: Oxford, UK


Posted:
At the risk of getting a tad mystical, I'd say the difference between fire and glowsticks that matters to me is that fire is:visceralsensuousnoisyunpredictable.In short, and I do spin with glowsticks if there's no spotter available or the circumstances rule fire out, Fire's alive. Glowsticks are pretty, but they're cold and unchanging. Fire is born, burns and dies, it flares in the wind, it will reward you if you treat it with respect, it will get playful if you get playful, it will merrily inflict third-degree burns with no hint of conscience if you mistreat it.It'll also burn your hands if you stop while it's still burning, so you have to respect its lifecycle.Fire makes you live in the now. I like glowsticks. I like to dance like a bast!d at the House of God, where you go to the D'n'B room when you need a chillout, til the sun rises and I can scarcely move any more.But I love fire.mikeyB

Posted:
Okay Josh, I see you dont like it. What are you going to do about it?Love always,Spanky

tekknogurrlBRONZE Member
member
90 posts
Location: New Paltz, NY, USA


Posted:
i didnt like this thread at first, because it seemed like an attack on those who twirl only glowsticks, or just an attack on me for posting something about ravers on the board. however, i think that this has generated an interesting debate and is therefore worthwhile.i don't consider myself a raver, but the people i am around contribute to my personality just like anyone's friends do. i have twirled both stix and fire and i find them equally worthwhile in their own ways. glowsticks are much more practical for going out and having fun, and fire twirling is more of a fun sideshow act. not to say it's just a circus thing, i dont mean to upset anybody, but it is not the usual thing for people to do on a saturday night.

~K~No matter what you do, one billion Chinese won't care.


TaiGuymember
127 posts
Location: Yorktown, VA, USA


Posted:
I don't see what the problem is. I think twirling glowstix and twirling fire as part of the same family, so when you talk about one, it automatically relates to the other. ------------------"Happiness is not a destination, but a method for life"- Burton Hills

The reason communism doesn't work is because people like to own stuff


s-p-l-a-tmember
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia


Posted:
I agree with Pele on this one - while I love seeing glowsticks twirled as much as I love seeing fire (well maybe not quite as much)... and I love twirling them both myself though my preference lies with fire - I can't see what ppl have a problem with.I don't see what 'raver' 'language' has to do with poi of any description fire, non fire, glowstick, tea bags or whatever. It reminds me of primary school 'can i learn your 'cool' talk so I can be accepted'..MHO.

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Unfortunat1ey one of the 1etters on my keyboard isn't keying always or properly. So, when the letter "l" bugs out I will be substituting the number one for it.Anyway, TG, I am sorry if you took the first post personally but I think it was your own misguidings lead to you that conclusion. Reread the initai1 post. It was very clear that it was not a persona1 attack on anyone, simp1y a question which I am gratefu1 that a few have fu11y answered.
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Gowsticks are pretty bjut as Mikey said fire is a1ive. This rea11y depends on why you swing. If you swing because it 1ooks coo1 and is the new thing to do then that is fine, there is no difference between swinging comets, fire, gowsticks, socks, cats or 1inked sausages. For some of us spinning is much more. Beyond the spiritua1 expression, which is very much is for me at times, there is a1so my passion for fire. I 1ove fire. I eat it, I breathe it. I spin it. I wrap it around my body and trai1 it over my f1esh. There is and wi11 never be a comparison of spinning anything next to fire in my wor1d. Yes, I do spin other things because they are pretty and I 1ike to try, and I 1ike not burning myse1f when practicing. I a1so spin for audiences in the daytime, where the impact of fire can sti11 be heard, and seen and fe1t. G1owsticks fa11 extreme1y short in this category and so I find them incredib1y 1imiting, more so than comets. I think to get the fu use of either you have to use them in conunction...comets during the day, attach stix to them at night.... whereas fire is and wi11 aways be abe to exists independent1y no matter when I choose to spin. What I am saying is it depends on your approach to spinning, and whether or not you wi11 be doing it in 20 years. I find those with the emotiona1 investment, those who see it as spiritua1, and who appreciate the 1ife it has *note, not the 1ifestye, that is something different to me* are the ones who stay in it longer, as opposed to those who think it a pretty thing to do.At least that is my opinion, not meaning to offend, only express how I view spinning.Thanks Splat, Pere, Mikey and Josh for not making me feel so alone here.
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I guess I just get frustrated with people taking things too personally and way out of context....*sigh*And Spanky...As a mod. I deleted your last post addresed to Josh. It was an uncalled for, unwarrented personal attack on him. If you are going to preach the rules of the board, please follow them. And just because you sign things "love always" does not subdue the context. Thank you for your concideration in the future.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 14 June 2001).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


flash fireBRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
trolling will not be tolerated. alas, another spanky post bites the dust.Additionally, I am closing this topic. It's creating unnecessary tension.[This message has been edited by flash fire (edited 14 June 2001).]

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.


flash fireBRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
Although I had previously closed this thread, it was requested that it be re-opened. I am doing so, reluctantly - as I feel that much of what needed to be said has already been said, and that the angst that has been floating around the board of late was finally beginning to dissapate, apart from the soon-to-be flame war that this thread could morph into. However, this is just my opinion and it appears that I am outnumbered in this regard.It's all yours again, but PLEASE - no hostility or blatant trolling. play nice.
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PS - glowstix suck......... joking!!!
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[This message has been edited by flash fire (edited 14 June 2001).]

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.


Posted:
hehe
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do about it? silly question spanky. all any of us can do is contribute, or not contribute. I'll keep contributing til I decide this board is waay too off topic, and then I'll stop contributing - exactly the same process everyone else who cares about Poi and Fire Twirling will go through. At the moment I'm kinda enjoying the slide towards uselessness. at some point I'll stop enjoying it I guess.but either way - I'll keep twirling and I'll keep learning - unlike the fadsters, who will be comparing rave reviews on the home of pogo-sticking board in 6-months time **mark my words - these be prophesy!** cuz THAT will be next months flavour
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and then the art of poi will return to the hands of those who love it.MWAHAHAHA!Josh

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