Forums > Advanced Staff moves > Double fishtails (forwards, particularly)

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contactballercontactballerGOLD Member
gravity wut?
4 posts
Location: Flowtoys; Berkeley, CA, USA

Hey all - those of you who throw down on fishsticks, I invite you to share your wisdom on the path to solid double fishtails (I already know "practice more"). I can get sync and async reverse fishtails in wall plane for a long time, as well as sync in wheel plane. So far I've been lucky to land a couple of propeller beats out of aforementioned patterns.

Here are specific questions:

-Any intermediary tricks for forward doubles? What's the better approach - just rolling right into double forwards with both sticks, or to try to stick one forward beat into a reverse FT pattern?

-What's the best way to start turning with double FTs? I presume turning pretty much always involves reversing FT directions, yeah?

-Offset center points; godsend or crutch?

-Any further inspiration on these patterns? So far I've seen Seb's videos, Fishbop, and the Armin video... and what's that one with the girl in her apartment?

Preemptive thanks to you ninjas out there.

mcpmcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

For forwards you could do some parallel patterns, so that one hand is forwards, one reverse, helps to learn to do a blind forwards fishtail. You can launch straight into that, or go from wheelplane 2 reverse fishtails and pull one out to wallplane.

There's also an inverted pattern, like normal fishtail, inverted fishtail, in and out, etc, in async wallplane. That's an easy way to get into forwards fiahtails too, cos you only do one forwards fishtail and the inverted bit is really easy.

Alternatively, just muscle it out and learn dual forwards in sync wheelplane. boom.

Turning? Turning with inverted beats is super easy. Turning wallplane async patterns is easier I think, that many other things. And yeah, just like turning a normal spinning staff, the staff changes direction in regards to your body, so does the fishtail.

offset center points are win. Unless you want some crazy arm problems from the weird position and motion you have to do for fishtails on center weighted staffs, or you have decided to use the smallest doubles ever.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

ZabbaBRONZE Member
3 posts
Location: Germany

I have been named in one sentence with MCP and Sebastian Berger. Yes I did it, I am famous!

I think the easiest pattern involving forward fishtails is to turn from reverse fishtails sync wheelplane to one forward one reverse sync in wallplane its a neat little transition. Dont try to hold it too long though...
Besides that try wheel plane forward sync. Start with just half fishtails and grab them on each side, then do another half fishtail and so on. After a while you get a feeling for it.

For turning I think async wall plane has got the most possibilities while confusing you the least with changing beat counts.
And like mcp already said blind fishtails are the key. If you can do a forwards fishtail while looking to a different direction or even doing other things with your other hand you have got a solid part of double fishtails down.

I like center weighted staffs because i feel that they give me the biggest flexibility in patterns, as I dont have to take into account which end of my staff will hit me in the head if I play the staff between my arms. Besides that I dont think that horizontal fishtails are possible with off center staffs. But off center has advantages too, so in the end you have to decide. (my staffs are 115cm, and I do just fine most of the time with center weight)
@mcp: By the way, when watching your video I thought that your staffs where center weighted too. Did I misconcieve that?

Oh, and for further advice just as with anything try fishtails at different heights, try them as slow as you can get, and learn all the stalls. With fishtails really the best thing is that you can stall at most horizontal and vertical spots in the motion.
Just dont get frustrated and keep practicing.

I just realized that you got me to making my first post on HOP, gratz to you. smile
EDITED_BY: Zabba (1293218400)

bluecatbluecatgeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere

I mostly recommend spending 11 days straight, talking fishtail theory with sebastian. if you can't do that, then yeah, if you already have solid reverse and reasonable single forwards then it's all about practise.

my biggest fishtail breakthrough came when i stopped thinking of the 2-beat as the base pattern, and started developing 5 or 6 different 3 beat patterns (in both forwards and reverse) as bases. this makes turning uber easy, and transitioning into and through 2 beat patterns a piece of cake.

(I'm a centre-weighter, btw. meg and her baton fetish can leave now)


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

mcpmcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

I'm just saying, off center weighting allows you to have your arms closer to your body. It can't be good for your shoulders to have your arms held so far from your body for such long periods of time while waving them around in weird ways. Probably better to minimise the strain your shoulders are put under. Seb should know all about that.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

[ Unregistered ]addict
413 posts

I think, the position of center relative to the staff and body
is a matter of movement not weighting center.

le sah,


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