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dreamSILVER Member
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand


Posted:
For coverage of tomorrow and Thursdays G20 protests acrosss london be sure to check out London Indymedia London Indymedia and UK Indymedia who will be providing live updates on the days actions.

As the Police have been talking up the summer of rage summer of rage before any kind of protest/demonstrations have occured it seems likely that there is likely to be some very heavy handed actions initiated by the police, and keeping protestors abreast of events while letting the world know what is really going on in the streets seems like a hugely important job for grassroots independent media.

Help report whats happening by sending your reports from the streets. There are two Indymedia reporting numbers running 28th March - 2nd April: 07588 479 039 : For calling in reports from events - remember the who what when where why - and also for sending txt msg updates and MMS picture messages.
08444 870 157: For calling in to leave a short audio recording that can be uploaded to the website. (If you do send pictures or audio messages, include the location and time) Twitter: If you are using twitter and have a report or update for Indymedia, include the hashtag #imcg20 in your message

https://mediaecologies.wordpress.com/

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche


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Posted:
BBC report on Kettling: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8000641.stm

Surely the police wouldnt be able to contain the protestors if everybody decided to scrum down and push in the same direction, much like at the end of Finding Nemo?

Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
but you're forgetting, its not just pushing, its smacking with batons if you even get too close, let alone if you're pushing toward them. people at the front would get beaten unconscious and trampled by the people behind them.

in those situations the police only care about protecting the police. however the protesters care about not getting hurt and not hurting other protestors, so they all stay back from the police, and get sheparded into a cage, and sit there until the police let them go. its a vicious tactic that prays on peoples civility.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


UCOFSILVER Member
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Posted:
I feel that the police would not be able to defend their position if they were seen to be hitting people at the front who were simply unable to move backwards.

Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
you mean defend themselves at a later time in the public eye, or at the time it is happening?

personally i couldnt justify pushing other people into police batons for my own benefit, and i couldnt blame police for fighting for their lives if they thought they were about to be swamped.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


UCOFSILVER Member
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Posted:
I mean at a later time.

Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
true true, but it wouldnt stop them from injuring many innocent people on the day. like i said i couldnt push like that knowing i was getting other people injured (either the protestors or the police). so really the concept of kettling only works because the majority of protestors were peaceful in the first place.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


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Posted:
Another Beeb link: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8002022.stm

willworkforfoodjnrSILVER Member
Hunting robot foxes
1,046 posts
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England (UK)


Posted:

Non-Https Image Link

Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
the internet: making the world a better place smile

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
I know how to stop this happening again. Stop protesting in the same way. create a group and send 1 guy with a petition and a big banner. or an organised group of a few. you'd get no trouble and everybody would be accounted for. Or some other method.

I understand standing up for your rights I agree with it, but in all honesty is the standard protest the way to go? how much cost to the UK was there because of the protest? I get bored of these protests now. you get too many groups going for the same big events and just drown each other out. I feel they get good airtime but as in this case the talk is NOT about what people were protesting against, in fact I don't even know the point of the protest it's hardly been mentioned on the news. The only talk has been about Violence, damage and police brutality so can anybody tell me what the protest acheived other than pain, suffering and another globally recognised police violence issue?
did they release Tibet? are more jobs going to have miraculously appeared because people congregated in london? are Developed countries stopping use of fossil fuels? no. I know our government can be inept but I'm pretty sure they had a good idea of peoples feelings bout these issues and didn't require thousands of people to turn up in person to tell them. I appreciate a useful protest with a tight aim and an alternative to the status quo. Protests now just seem to be full of whingers and troublemakers.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


bluecatgeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere


Posted:
living up to your signature there, mr mynci....

Holistic Spinner (I hope)


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
I'll admit I'm playing devils advocate here but I do think there has to be a better way to protest. The police are going to be aggressive, mob mentallity coupled with the fact that some (not all) join for the power it represents more than the helping. Combine that with a few protesters who aren't there for any lasting good and it doesn't matter how noble the ideals, you're going to end up with violence, which I abhor. there's no reason for it. I believe the reasons are sound I just feel the methods people use are antiquated and could be better.

Honestly Rob how much news coverage was on the issues? I watched a lot of TV over that period as I was off work with Mumps. You could blame the media, they could have focused on the issues being raised rather than the violence but they didn't and whilst that is a shame it's not really a surprise. If the Government had That many police out they knkew there was strong public feeling on issues, they probably knew what those issues were what was the point of the protest marches? a place for an angry public to voice their concerns. if everyone had been sat down would there have been a problem? I doubt it.

I looked at the list of different groups protesting different things in different ways, all they managed to do was drown each other out. I DO blame the Government for the problems that occured though, they could have easily had the meeting somewhere where a protest could not have been mounted, they offered protesters the chance to voice their concerns but also to rage through the capital some did one a negative few the other, but it doesn't change the results of what happened. Somtimes I feel people are too set in their ways, I applaud people like PWB who go out and make a positive difference, positive action and the like but protests are marches (unless you sit down), marches are generally militant and the military is aggressive, I'm surprised people don't see it. The city was boarded up (not the signs of a peaceful protest) what peace loving person could not see what was going to happen, My only surprise was at peoples surprise that it did.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


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zyonchaosjourneyman
77 posts
Location: Anglesey, Wales, UK soon to be Lincoln, England (s...


Posted:
Originally Posted By: MynciI'll admit I'm playing devils advocate here but I do think there has to be a better way to protest. The police are going to be aggressive, mob mentallity coupled with the fact that some (not all) join for the power it represents more than the helping. Combine that with a few protesters who aren't there for any lasting good and it doesn't matter how noble the ideals, you're going to end up with violence, which I abhor. there's no reason for it. I believe the reasons are sound I just feel the methods people use are antiquated and could be better.

Honestly Rob how much news coverage was on the issues? I watched a lot of TV over that period as I was off work with Mumps. You could blame the media, they could have focused on the issues being raised rather than the violence but they didn't and whilst that is a shame it's not really a surprise. If the Government had That many police out they knkew there was strong public feeling on issues, they probably knew what those issues were what was the point of the protest marches? a place for an angry public to voice their concerns. if everyone had been sat down would there have been a problem? I doubt it.

I looked at the list of different groups protesting different things in different ways, all they managed to do was drown each other out. I DO blame the Government for the problems that occured though, they could have easily had the meeting somewhere where a protest could not have been mounted, they offered protesters the chance to voice their concerns but also to rage through the capital some did one a negative few the other, but it doesn't change the results of what happened. Somtimes I feel people are too set in their ways, I applaud people like PWB who go out and make a positive difference, positive action and the like but protests are marches (unless you sit down), marches are generally militant and the military is aggressive, I'm surprised people don't see it. The city was boarded up (not the signs of a peaceful protest) what peace loving person could not see what was going to happen, My only surprise was at peoples surprise that it did.

Everything that has been said here is spot on the media will always focus on the extremist side of things such as the violence which was bad and did you notice how many cameras were stood around capturing the smashing of a banks window, yet they dont get charged for inciting violence (because you cant tell me they werent egging the guy on).

As for the protests themselves, go and protest and when confronted with a wall of police in riot gear, stop, sit down. Just one more thing make sure you have plenty of people with decent video cameras stood far enough back that the police cant get to them, but close enough to video police reactions. And if you get bothered with some of these idiots who pitch up to cause trouble and you happen to catch them on camera, use good will and give the evidence to the police.

No I am not a copper. But I do believe in the inherant right to protest and as long as it is peaceful then it can be very productive, but the violence at this years summit detracted a lot from what was trying to be achieved.

Sorry if I have rambled thats the problem when you can type faster than you can think.

J

From Within Chaos Comes Order


FreakyHairstranger
18 posts


Posted:
Originally Posted By: MynciI'll admit I'm playing devils advocate here but I do think there has to be a better way to protest. The police are going to be aggressive, mob mentallity coupled with the fact that some (not all) join for the power it represents more than the helping. Combine that with a few protesters who aren't there for any lasting good and it doesn't matter how noble the ideals, you're going to end up with violence, which I abhor. there's no reason for it. I believe the reasons are sound I just feel the methods people use are antiquated and could be better.

Honestly Rob how much news coverage was on the issues? I watched a lot of TV over that period as I was off work with Mumps. You could blame the media, they could have focused on the issues being raised rather than the violence but they didn't and whilst that is a shame it's not really a surprise. If the Government had That many police out they knkew there was strong public feeling on issues, they probably knew what those issues were what was the point of the protest marches? a place for an angry public to voice their concerns. if everyone had been sat down would there have been a problem? I doubt it.

I looked at the list of different groups protesting different things in different ways, all they managed to do was drown each other out. I DO blame the Government for the problems that occured though, they could have easily had the meeting somewhere where a protest could not have been mounted, they offered protesters the chance to voice their concerns but also to rage through the capital some did one a negative few the other, but it doesn't change the results of what happened. Somtimes I feel people are too set in their ways, I applaud people like PWB who go out and make a positive difference, positive action and the like but protests are marches (unless you sit down), marches are generally militant and the military is aggressive, I'm surprised people don't see it. The city was boarded up (not the signs of a peaceful protest) what peace loving person could not see what was going to happen, My only surprise was at peoples surprise that it did.

All protests are different. At the end of the day if you think a few people with the names of thousands of others who support them will make any difference then you're a tad silly. Generally protests are about a single issue, everyone is united in what they are protesting about. Are you telling me that if there was one man who had a million signatures protested about the Iraq war it would be more effective or powerful than a million people who have actuially taken the effort to come and show their views?

The G20 violence only started once the kettle began and the way you talk about it suggests that you havn't been to this kind of event? If you were cramped in an insanely squashed area for literally HOURS would you not go mental. At protests police tactics are to provoke, from first hand experience. You could go to a perfectly peaceful protest (like one by the CND) and end up seeing people so frustated and antagonised by the police that they snap and become violent.

In my opinion the more violence the better, its got to that stage. If peaceful protests worked I'd be all up for them, but when its the big issues that governments do not want to change position on even millions of peaceful protesters will not change anything. OR maybe not violence, but direct action. Something to show that people are willing to be arrested for what they beleive in. Civil disobediance.. man.

News about what is actually being protested about will never be in depth, they will never look at the issues, just at the violence. Violence sells papers, its our own societies fault, we are complacent, stupid and braindead. We watch the news and have our view, we read the papers and know what we think. Black and white thinking, ona national level. Topical conversation generally seems to be whatever story the media has currently decided to latch onto, swine flu, gaza, expenses. After the end of the Gaza seige and ceasefire was declared noone cares anymore. Not even a lot of people who went to protests about it. At least 10 Paleastinian civillians have been shot since the ceasefire, but who cares? ..

Either way, keep protesting, keep fighting. Just a single presence shows a lot of support for whatever issue, and amybe one day there will be 10s of millions of us protesting against climate change, or against our ever increasing nanny state.

Peace and love.

EDIT:

IF people sit down at protests they get baton charged - simples. You obviously have a very limited knowledge on this subject, check out the climate camp videos at the g20. They wer 100% peaceful, there were the elderly and children there and they were baton charged, continually. Peaceful protests get attacked and are you telling me that if you were sitting down and was baton charged that you wouldn't go absolutely mental? Ive seen police targetting a young muslim boy at sit down protests, there were hundreds of us sitting down and 3 police started attacking a 14 year old with their shields, they got him in the eye full blast with the shield corner.. Its [censored] up. And I've seen a lot worse.

If you think that peaceful protests receive different treatment than peaceful marches then you are very much mistaken. It is almost always the police that start the violence, and by beleiving that the government preparing for this was because they knew hardcore anarchists were going to destroy the cities then you beleive excactly what they want you to beleive. At climatecamp 08 they violently raided the camp to confiscate 'weapons' amonst the items were crayons, a terrorist board game and pencils. Yet the way the media portrayed climate camp was anarchists with stashes of hidden weapons.

The media is complete [censored].

I couold carry on telling you of my experiences of peaceful protests being baton charged but I doubt you really care.

Check this out..







EDITED_BY: FreakyHair (1242817381)

zyonchaosjourneyman
77 posts
Location: Anglesey, Wales, UK soon to be Lincoln, England (s...


Posted:
I'm sorry but I cannot agree completely with you FreakyHair, The police do not always start "Baton Charging" just because there is a protest.
The CND are not the purveyors of peace and justice that they claim to be (well not all of them), they do cause a lot of S**t. Having witnessed their protests first hand, and being on the receiving end of their antagonism.
In any group you will find truly idiotic people who honestly believe to get there point across, they need to kick off. To quote you..
"In my opinion the more violence the better"
If you honestly believe that, then what is the point in carrying on this debate as you will not see anybody elses point of view.
It would be a waste of time me arguing the fact that not all of the police are violent just the same as not all peace protestors are peaceful.

Do you also agree with the protestors that greeted the Anglian Regiment on their homecoming from Iraq, you know the ones that were protesting the war in Iraq yet accusing the soldiers of being baby killers?
Were they peacefully protesting or trying to start something?

I agree with you that the Media are completely biased, they will see what they want to see. Which is why I mentioned it in my original post about the bank window getting put through and the amount of cameras that were around to take pictures of it.

@ Mynci this will probably come as a surprise to you since you said this..
"marches are generally militant and the military is aggressive"
.. referring to the last half of that quote, I am in the Military and yes we can be aggressive (when we need to be) it comes with the territory and yes I admit we do have our fair share of idiots that cause grief. But we are not aggressive as a rule, I really do think that you can get more done peacefully than you can going after someone and kicking them in. If you take out everyone who disagrees with you, then all you are left with is a lot of work as you are the only one left.

From Within Chaos Comes Order


FreakyHairstranger
18 posts


Posted:
Originally Posted By: zyonchaosI'm sorry but I cannot agree completely with you FreakyHair, The police do not always start "Baton Charging" just because there is a protest.
The CND are not the purveyors of peace and justice that they claim to be (well not all of them), they do cause a lot of S**t. Having witnessed their protests first hand, and being on the receiving end of their antagonism.
In any group you will find truly idiotic people who honestly believe to get there point across, they need to kick off. To quote you..
"In my opinion the more violence the better"
If you honestly believe that, then what is the point in carrying on this debate as you will not see anybody elses point of view.
It would be a waste of time me arguing the fact that not all of the police are violent just the same as not all peace protestors are peaceful.

Do you also agree with the protestors that greeted the Anglian Regiment on their homecoming from Iraq, you know the ones that were protesting the war in Iraq yet accusing the soldiers of being baby killers?
Were they peacefully protesting or trying to start something?

I agree with you that the Media are completely biased, they will see what they want to see. Which is why I mentioned it in my original post about the bank window getting put through and the amount of cameras that were around to take pictures of it.

@ Mynci this will probably come as a surprise to you since you said this..
"marches are generally militant and the military is aggressive"
.. referring to the last half of that quote, I am in the Military and yes we can be aggressive (when we need to be) it comes with the territory and yes I admit we do have our fair share of idiots that cause grief. But we are not aggressive as a rule, I really do think that you can get more done peacefully than you can going after someone and kicking them in. If you take out everyone who disagrees with you, then all you are left with is a lot of work as you are the only one left.



I don't agree with protesting at a homecoming of army officers in the least but they were peaceful and they had good point.. just no hearts frown

Agreed there are protestors who want to be violent. But not or the sake of vioence and I say I think that viollence is a good thing but.. well that is kinda crap. What I mean is making a stand and not just marching from A to B showing that they need to iste to people protesting. Also after going to tons of protests and just constantly seeing the same s**t over and over you start to get pretty anoyed. Its not nice being baton charged at a sit down protest.

If I gave the impression that I think the police's response to every protest is to baton charge then I didn't word what I was trying to say very well. What I mean was, it is their tactic to provoke, and fro my eperience it always is. I'm ot saying all police are bad, far from it, quite alot are realy awesome people. But generally, the people in charge giving the orders provoke constantly until there is a reaso or them to put on their riot gear and get the press in.

Protests are just silly though, the G20 one was INSANE hype, there was probally as many photographers as protestors :S

I will see others points of view, just not on the fact the peaceful marches are more efective than direct action.

zyonchaosjourneyman
77 posts
Location: Anglesey, Wales, UK soon to be Lincoln, England (s...


Posted:
Originally Posted By: FreakyHairI don't agree with protesting at a homecoming of army officers in the least but they were peaceful and they had good point.. just no hearts

Grrrr sod the Officers lol they get paid to take the abuse, I was upset at the abuse the lads got. I didn't see the point of the protests that called the boys baby killers. Protest against the war, completely different matter all together. In fact you would probably garner a lot of sympathy and support (although quiet support since we arent supposed to have views) from the very people that were protested at.
The forces are not very popular at the moment for the war in Iraq and all the crap going on in Afghanistan, but its our political masters that cause all these problems in the first place. Can you honestly tell me that it would be better for these guys to just quit rather than go and do the job they are paid and trained well to do. They couldnt do it to their families or their friends that would stay behind. But if their was a mass exodus of the forces, who is going to cover the firefighters strikes, when the government reneges on another pay deal. Who will back up the police the next time some group of nutters strap bombs to their backs and start blowing busses up, because the governments foreign policy isnt all it could be. Who is going to help people when flood defences either fail or do not exist due to the government wanting cheap housing and building it on flood pains. I could go on, the military do a lot more than fight (honest we do lol).

Originally Posted By: FreakyHairIf I gave the impression that I think the police's response to every protest is to baton charge then I didn't word what I was trying to say very well. What I mean was, it is their tactic to provoke, and fro my eperience it always is. I'm ot saying all police are bad, far from it, quite alot are realy awesome people. But generally, the people in charge giving the orders provoke constantly until there is a reaso or them to put on their riot gear and get the press in.

Yes you did give that impression which is why I went off on a rant initially lol. What you say here makes a lot more sense and can be said is true from both sides of the coin (protestors and police) for provocation anyway. It isnt all, it is a select few who want to provoke a situation. I have had to be put on guard for protests and some of the abuse we received was purely to provoke a reaction, with cameras watching our every move, we were under orders to make no response what so ever, verbal or otherwise. I have had to guard some protests where the protestors were the nicest possible people I have ever had the pleasure to meet, had some good laughs with them and it was worth working an extra 12hrs that day.

Originally Posted By: FreakyHairProtests are just silly though, the G20 one was INSANE hype, there was probally as many photographers as protestors :S
I cant disagree with you on this one, but did it seem to you that they were trying to provoke the situation?

Originally Posted By: FreakyHairI will see others points of view, just not on the fact the peaceful marches are more efective than direct action.

This I think we will just have to agree to disagree lol.

From Within Chaos Comes Order


UCOFSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
15,414 posts
Location: United Kingdom



UCOFSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
15,414 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
All charges against a group of G20 protestors to be dropped: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8487213.stm

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