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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I went to a friend's house today and was greeted with "Can you help me? I caught a mouse." His roommate had, foolishly, put a snap-trap on a glue trap and the poor mouse had got its hindpaw and part of its tail stuck in the trap. We have no idea how long he'd been there.

I hate killing mice, but I also understand the necessity in a city like New York. He's not in our apartments by mistake. He's vermin.

I usually like snap traps because they kill the mouse quickly and, hopefully, with minimal suffering. But when put on a glue trap, the mouse can rarely get his head in the trap and may trigger it with a paw while struggling.

So I had to kill him. Any mouse on a glue trap (which I have used, out of desperation and as a last resort) must be killed immediately to minimize suffering. The best way is to put newspaper over him and to stomp down as hard as you can on his head. The idea is to scramble his brain before any pain signals can make their way up. It would be like having a 747 silently and swiftly descend on you. You'd simply exist one moment and be a pile of entrails the next.

And so I did it.

Now...what do you do when faced with such an unpleasant task?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:as I have cats, I occassionally have to deal with mice/birds in a situation where they're no longer capable of flight/ movement. I've seen (at a guess) broken backs and legs/wings mostly.

Put in your situation, there are a few techniques I've used in the past:

foot to the head
spade/stout stick (need good accuracy with a stick) to head
quick twist of the neck (better with birds, because mice heads are difficult to twist, at least without crushing them)

I have to add, I ALWAYS feel bad after doing this, and the memory of it stays with me for a long time, but as an owner of a cat, I feel I am responsible for its actions, and so must deal with unpleasant situations that arise from them.

All you can do is make it as quick and painless as possible, especially given how cats 'play' with their victims and drag out suffering needlessly (one aspect about cats I don't like but accept)


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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crowley2
crowley2

official hop cutie
Location: Uk, Essex, Clacton
Member Since: 22nd Nov 2005
Total posts: 272
Posted:as a great believer in karmic energy i couldnt kill the mouse so i would put it into a box and drive a few miles away to a better habitat for it and then set it free

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry pratchett

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Wirewood
Wirewood

journeyman
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 5th Aug 2004
Total posts: 90
Posted:I was working on contract for the Department of Conservation on Rakiura (aka Stweart Island) in NZ a few years back during a rat plauge (the Rimu trees had masted - i.e. all flowered & fruited at the same time). While camping out we set rat traps all around the camp to try to reduce the amount of our food the little buggers were pinching but the traps weren't grunty enough to kill an adult rat. So to minimise their suffering we used a hammer to the head (the rats, not ours). You couldn't look away while you did it as your aim had to be true or you just ended up increasing the rats pain. Very icky, very unpleasent and more than just a little disturbing too. Even though the rats are introduced & were doing a LOT of damge to the native flora & fauna none of us enjoyed this task. After a few nights of having to dispatch over 15 rats/ hour we gave up and just got by on leaner rations (they ate our kumera, pumpkins, spuds & chewed the top of our juice concentrate packs - thankfully we had plastic bins to preserve the most important items like chocolate).

"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Crowley, leaving a trapped, injured, suffering animal to die of starvation/dehydration in pain is in my opinion, asking for far worse karma than just ending it quickly and as painlessly as possible.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:But crowley wasn't letting it starve or dehydrate. it's a mouse. it will eat anything (including army rations!). i'm sure mice will find something to eat out in the bush (or whatever they call it in the UK)

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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crowley2
crowley2

official hop cutie
Location: Uk, Essex, Clacton
Member Since: 22nd Nov 2005
Total posts: 272
Posted:well if its injured its because you were using a inhumane trap that is designed to do such things since i would only use a humane trap that would just trap the mouse it would be completly unharmed so by releaseing it into the wild i would just be letting nature takes it course

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry pratchett

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Ok. The problem is that is New York City. What "wild" did you have in mind? He'll just come right back in.

I also question the ethics of driving a 3-ton automobile out into the countryside just to release a mouse. How many animals did you indirectly kill through your carbon emissions?

Karma's a b... smile


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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crowley2
crowley2

official hop cutie
Location: Uk, Essex, Clacton
Member Since: 22nd Nov 2005
Total posts: 272
Posted:well so far ive killed 0.0000000000000001% of animals due to carbon emissions through car use how about how many died in the creation of my clothes and the food i eat i may believe in karma but its all bout balce for every bad doing a good

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry pratchett

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Hurm we haven't hadn any mice about for ages beacuse of the drought and that sort of thing. But as a kid i was always taught to grab them by the tail, and give a short sharp flick so as to break their neck. I don't know how quick the death really is but one would think that i would be pretty quick. That is what my grandpar would do on the farm, or he would use a shovel.

It can be hard to do but it is better than them bleading to death or starving.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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Puk
Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2002
Total posts: 2615
Posted:I shot a rabbit once and it didn't die so i had to break it's neck . But seriousily shovel's are great so many useful task apart from digging .

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:But my question is: are you a person who can do this, or are you the sort who can't do it?

My friend couldn't do it and immediately deferred to me. I suppose he guessed I was good for that sort of thing. I'm very comfortable around living things, in general, or at least I have a good idea of what to treat with a hefty amount of respect. I'll kill bugs and mice and such without too much fuss, although I'm a horrible arachnophobe.

But ask me to do a repair job on a leaky sink and I'm lost. smile


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Meeko_Kiddo
Meeko_Kiddo

journeyman

Member Since: 7th Sep 2006
Total posts: 84
Posted:I'd do the same thing. I just couldn't kill an animal frown

In my old house we would get tons of mice in our unfinished basement or in our garage... we would either let our cat get to them or put the trapdoor traps in there and then let them go down the mountain.


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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Yeah i would probably do it, well i have before. But i'm use to it beacuse we use to go rabbit shooting and such on the farm. So as long as it is a feral animal and a pest i would do it.

I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted::scared:

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:Snap traps all the way.

If I saw one caught in a glue trap I'd try and break his neck. Though if it's in twisting fits I guess your stomping method would be the best.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Puk
Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2002
Total posts: 2615
Posted:Sorry doc i guessed i answered your Question ,as for leaky taps / sinks
Isn't that why you have manily tradsman type friends Doc tongue wink.


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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FlyYak
FlyYak

stranger
Location: London
Member Since: 18th Sep 2007
Total posts: 8
Posted:I think it's best for city vermin to be killed and as quickly as possible. It is a great mistake to think releasing them into the "wild" is any sort of nicer option. If it has lived only in the city it will not know how to forage in the 'wild' and will die slowly of starvation or be killed for having transgressed another's territory. Even mice are territorial.

A farmer I know told me about the results of city fox rescues. He can always tell when another bunch have been 'freed' because they come trotting up to the trucks. They are thin, often wounded (foxes are VERY territorial) and dying because they can't find the rubbish bins. And he is left doing the terrible job of shortening their misery.

We've changed the rules in all the populated areas, we can't let nature take it's course because we have messed up the balance and now we have to do the work to maintain healthy and sustainable animal populations. That includes killing to keep the numbers down on vermin species. Sad but it's our job now.

So for me quick=humane.


"Dost thou think, because thou art
virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?"

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: FlyYak


I think it's best for city vermin to be killed and as quickly as possible. It is a great mistake to think releasing them into the "wild" is any sort of nicer option. If it has lived only in the city it will not know how to forage in the 'wild' and will die slowly of starvation or be killed for having transgressed another's territory. Even mice are territorial.



Not only that, but release him into the "wild?" I live on Manhattan Island, for crying out loud!

Non-Https Image Link


What "wild?" confused Unless you want me to drive about an hour in some random direction to deposit a single small mammal.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FlyYak
FlyYak

stranger
Location: London
Member Since: 18th Sep 2007
Total posts: 8
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning



Not only that, but release him into the "wild?" I live on Manhattan Island, for crying out loud!



Yup, totally absurd.

BTW I know from your other posts you are so very done with NYC (and I understand why), but thanks for the pic. I wouldn't want to live there but walking down the canyon streets between the soaring cliffs of the skyscrapers will always lift my heart.


"Dost thou think, because thou art
virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?"

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: FlyYak


[BTW I know from your other posts you are so very done with NYC (and I understand why), but thanks for the pic. I wouldn't want to live there but walking down the canyon streets between the soaring cliffs of the skyscrapers will always lift my heart.



Oh, it's a fantastic place to visit. The problem is that I crave big, wide views. You rarely get a good view in NYC when you spend your time at the bottom of a vast, rectilinear network of straight-walled canyons.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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rin_666
rin_666

enthusiast
Location: cambridge
Member Since: 30th Jul 2006
Total posts: 223
Posted:Don;t think I'd ever be able to do something like that but never actually been in that situation so I'm not really sure what would happen.

 Written by: LazyAngel


I have to add, I ALWAYS feel bad after doing this, and the memory of it stays with me for a long time, but as an owner of a cat, I feel I am responsible for its actions, and so must deal with unpleasant situations that arise from them.

All you can do is make it as quick and painless as possible, especially given how cats 'play' with their victims and drag out suffering needlessly (one aspect about cats I don't like but accept)



Reading that reminded me of a mate of mine I danced with who had this DEMON of a cat and she told me after having to put a full grown seagull out of it's misery she turned and told the cat no more playing with live things. The next day she walked out of her house to find the cat sitting very proudly next to a man spreadeagled on her driveway. She was convinced her cat had killed him until he came to and she discovered that he'd fallen off the roof of the house next door while trying to rob it!!


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:such a cat thing to do... take all the credit for preventing a robbery!

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:Meh..I hate killing things, but as my parents have a wildlife park, and we keep a few snakes it used to be a (very occasional, I passed the job on it as much as possible) part of my job to feed them.. and as it's actually illegal to feed a live vertebrate to another animal in the UK - that meant killing them first..

I'm sure someone will point out snakes can be trained to eat de-frosted food or those 'snake sausage' things- but it's not very natural for them, they definitely prefer to eat fresh and warm, and I don't see how letting someone else kill it for you is any more humane, just easier...

Sometimes you just have to..


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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