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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted: Hello beautiful people

I was thinking about this these days after a chat I had with Ray.

Do you think that you can see people s real face when they are angry ?

I used to think stress reveals a lot about people s personnalities, so does anger maybe ?

but if you do not hold all the cards and infos, can you really juge for example if I get angry that you steppe into my room and you do not know of my past experiences, then does this still tell you about me ???

looking forward to your input

Shine on
Cass

[ 20. May 2003, 14:41: Message edited by: Cassandra ]


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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JoKoPo


member
Location: Nottingham, England, UK

Total posts: 84
Posted:I think you see what a person really looks like when they're asleep.

Y'know, they're far far away in another world out of the conscious one... no barriers are up, no pretending.

You are completely vunerable.

However, I do think the way you look when you're mad says a helluva lot about you; some people get weepy-looking, some are just fuming, some look ready to crack... etc. You can tell a lot about people by the way they handle their anger too.

xxx


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Meet me in outer space... I will hold you close if you're afraid of heights...xXxXx

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Every action you take and every emotion you feel says something about who you choose to be.

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Posted:I think how people behave when under stress says a lot about them.

ie people who get bitchy and vindictive have a bitchy or vindictive streak... Other people tend to fall in a heap and that shows they dont have much inner strength. Still others try to keep on keeping on...

I wouldnt say that that is EXACTLY what the person is like tho, people are different depending on the situation.

I definitely think that saying the angry person is the 'real' person is ignoring the fact that most of the time the person isnt angry and therefore those characteristics dont show...

Josh


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I would alsp like to point out that there are different degrees of anger...there is not just one piss-offedness.

So one day I might be frustrated at myself, in which case the dilemma is more internalized but still shows on my face.
I might get road rage and mutter an insult under my breath.
I might get mad at my son and punish him that day.
I might get angry at a friend and just bitch and about it to vent, work it out and move on.
I might get really pissed and grit my teeth and bury my nails into my hand to keep from decking someone because they hurt my child.
I might even get pushed to the point of seethingly angry and really want to cause bodily harm to someone because they did something so out of line to a loved one that the whole protective instincts kicked in.

Each one, each degree of anger says something about me, sure but it will never give a clear picture as to how I will handle every situation, or even about my inner strengths.
What if I am having a bad day and you don't know the backstory? What if I have a history with someone who is just antagonistic? What if I had tried the same thing 5 times and still don't have it right? If you don't know these things and attempt to make conclusions about a person based on their reactions, then you could be missing out on someone wonderful.

Determining someone's personality is soooo much more than one reaction to one emotion. There is such a gambit of things we can feel, and so many variables under which we can feel them, and degrees to which they can be expressed, that even if we know someone for a long time, they can still surprise us.

For me, especially when I am out, one of the telling keys to a persons personality with me is how they handle intoxication. Then I think some of the most true reactions come out.
I also think just on the whole listening to people is very telling. Literally, to speech cadence, word usage, vocal influctuation and figutatively in body language. These tell me more about someone than a reaction to a stimuli ever could.
imho that is!

(PS..hello sweet sister. I have to answer you yet I know, please forgive me. life is hectic beyond compare and I will get back to you...and all the others...when I return next week! hugs and love shining one! )


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I think it is always dangerous to judge people in hast, but we do reveal part of our personality when we are angry.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Chorin
BRONZE Member since Jul 2002

member
Location: Dorking, Surrey, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 217
Posted:Me personally I don't have an angry face, I know it sounds implausible but I really don't get angry, about anything! I honestly can't think of a time when I've been truly angry about something. There have been times when things have pissed me off, but angry? nope I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened to me yet.

As far a judging people by their angry face I think that's a little unfair, the angry face admittedly would show alot a person but none of would be good. A better thing, if you were going to do anything so crass and shallow as judge somebody by their looks, would be to do so by their happy face as well as their angry face. At least that way you get the good to counter to bad.


Dilbert's Words of Wisdom -
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow is not looking good either!
You are slower than a herd of turtles stampedeing through peanut butter!

Oh yeah.... Don't tell the ants

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dwuanos


member
Location: Freo

Total posts: 79
Posted:I think the problem is no guys are listerning to their inner bitch and gals are not listerning to their inner bastards. so anger is all lop sided and you can't get a proper view of their duality.
Live balanced and you always where your real face


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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:I also think the most innocent face a person can give is while they are sleeping. Instead of looking at people when they are angry, why don't you look at how they react to their anger? Some people bottle it all up inside them, so tend to spout off an any and everyone when they are angry, others try to use logic and reasoning if someone has made them angry, and others just refuse to listen to people that made them angry, but they will give their own theories behind stuff. I think how you react when you are angry says a lot about who you really are.

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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin
Location: Australia

Total posts: 5635
Posted:I think that when a person is angry or upset, you see an extreme version of them. Like, all the negative aspects multipied.

its unfair to judge a person solely on their hard times. Its also unfair to judge a person on their good times. Personally i think its just unfair to judge people at all....

i think when we are mad or hurt, we take shortcuts to acheive means that we think will make us feel better. alot of it has to do with behaviour conditioning. A person who has grown up in a violent household will no doubt handle anger alot differently than someone who has grown up in a bottled enviroment.

if you see the worst/extreme of a person when they are angry, then you must see the best/extreme of a person when they are joyous. I think if you truly want to know a person, catch them in the in betweens. When they are being normal, and day to day.... thats real.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:WOW thank you all so much for the input it got me thinking a lot a lot a lot...

I would like to extend my question to another one that for personal reason has been bugging me a lot last year .

When a person grows old (and provided they do not have Alzheimer for ex) and senile sometimes you notice a drastic change in personnalities... do you think this is their true selves ???

I mean my father s mother whom I never really felt connected to cause she was very tough and cold , when she grew old and lost her mind partly had become this fluffy happy person ... is that her face beyon the social weight taht was on her shoulder all these years ?

what do you think ?

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the lights and input again

Shine on
cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:That depends. Sometimes people get old and bitter simply because they are in pain and have been suffering for so long. I do not think that is their true self - they are just sick of being, and having to have other people take care of them.

Your grandmother seems to be on the other end of the spectrum here. That too happened to one of my great-grandmothers whom I only remember meeting once. My mother told me that it was her medication making her that way. While it helped to ease the pain, it also helped to ease away the stresses of everyday life and make things more managable (sort of like an anti-depressant I would guess). Don't know if your grandmother turned that way when she was healthy, or when there was more than just old age wrong with her.

I don't see a person being their true self in either of these situations either. I don't think there is any one determinant that can really describe who a person truly is. I think that others need to get to know them over time to really know who they are. People can also have many different faces in many different situations, and I think they can all be that true individual. It is how they react to various stimuli whether good or bad that make each of us who we are.


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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:Danae,

When my grandmother had alzheimers, she suddenly thought I was my father...since he was her only child, this put me in an odd situation.

There were times she wouldn't let anybody near her because she thought they were trying to poison her.

Before she got sick, she never liked me. I was too much of a wiseass for her to appreciate and I found her to hard for me to warm up to.

The last year she was in a nursing home I finally stopped going to see her. The visits were too painful because she had NO idea that I wasn't my father so she insisted on speaking German to me. Since thats not a language I really speak, it was odd.

The sickness didn't reveal her true face, it just warped her reality.

My true face? Scruffy.




Raph


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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin
Location: Australia

Total posts: 5635
Posted:i think that as a person ages they are who they are At the TIME! i dont think you could look at one single point of your life to date and say, thats who i am! thats me being real right there!

Being real is being everything you are made up of, the happy and sad and funny and angry and silly bits. And ALL The years it progresses over.

just be who you are right now. Dont worry about who people were ten years ago, or ten years into the future! the good part about life is that we have time to change and refine and better ourselves!


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:well as the resident nympho scorpio and loving woman worshipper (who is quite obviously swimming in right now) i would have to say the face of ecstasy, when looking into your lover's eyes, when you feel your spirit taken up, lifted on the wings of free desire and recognition. that face contains the keys to our eternal self, beyond karma and the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Eep!! She started this with out me knowing.... Well... I see anger as truth. It is very hard to lie when your angry, adreniline is pumping and your brain isnt always thinking, it is reacting. Ask a person a question when they are angry and you will more often then not, get the truth.

Though Pele is right, there is more than one type of anger.

Personally I like it when people make me angry, it is a time for me to test myself. A way to determine the streangth of your will is how you react when angry.

Anger can make you stronger, it unleashes a hidden potential that you yourself may never have known about. It can destroy but it can also re-enforce.

I dont know about yalls other comments but we all have different views on what allows you to see the real person.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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crazy_french


member
Location: France

Total posts: 60
Posted:We aren't one, we are "lots".
It's impossible to see the real face of someone.

paule skyzofrene de service


la tite fan de k's choiceI close my eyes and I try to see a piece of paradise in me....

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:I've been told my angry face is very scary and looks like I am about to beat someone into a fine red mist, which is totally not the case - I'm far more likely to take a long walk (and just keep going) than I am to get physical. The scary thing is, the way it is described makes it sound like my father's angry face.

And thank you Arashi for bringing up the counter point. I've been lurking on this thread and kept thinking something similar. Personally I think one of the most increadibly beautiful things ever in the history of anything is watching my lover's face while she is on the brink of... well, you know. If someone isn't beautiful then (which is rare), then I take it as a warning about what lies beneath.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Kat
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London, Wales (UK)

Total posts: 2211
Posted:I agree very much with Flynt and Dom.

My bored, happy, sleepy, sad, grumpy, ecstatic faces are all me.

Anger is such a strong emotion that it can appear like someone has turned up the volume on your personality.

The Japanese have a concept called Honne - your true face and Tatemae is when you hide your true face. When you are angry you may give a tight smile.

I also think that humans can try and control negative emotions, as we get older we try and improve ourselves, make ourselves better people. 10 years ago I was reserved (called a snob and icequeen) and had a short fuse (talk to my sis and bros some time). I have grown a lot since but I don't think that my less angry face now is any less me than the me of 10 years ago.

I do think that our nasty side is more likely to emerge when we are stressed or angry.

If I truly did believe that the way a person acted when they were angry or stressed then there are people I would not still be friends with today, including my own father. The capability for anger is just one part of our confusing hodge podge of charachter traits


Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

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Patchwork Jester


member
Location: Richmond, Indiana

Total posts: 18
Posted:*Claps*

Hooray for people who have studied Japanese social constructs. We should chat sometime!

Anyway, I have to side with what Kat and her 'cohorts' have been saying. Anger is another side of a personality. In my personal opinion, it is a less rational state of being, so people tend to act less according to who they are socially, so in some senses, it's not the true person, and in others it is. It's a very instinctual side, sometime (in the higher degrees of anger) and it tends to lead us to do what we feel and want, rather than what we "should" or "shouldn't" do according to Kant's catergorical imperative.

But screw Kant.

We are who we are. We do put on masks, but who's to say those masks aren't a direct part of us? After all, WE create them out of our own ideals and desires.

Well, I'm waxing philosphical on an empty stomach, not very reliable. I'm going to go remedy that.


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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:People are mutli dimentional. We react to the enviournment around us which brings out various aspects in our personality to which we believe are a safe or acceptable response....
My true face is the one I have when I wake up in the morning...the sleeply, still dreaming face. The face that I have when I see a little child learning about new things that excite them, the wonder face I make that arsn laughs at when I see a little woofy or a meowy....the joyful face that I have when Im flinging great balls of fire around my head..
LE SIGH (thats french right there)


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin
Location: Australia

Total posts: 5635
Posted:@ Valura's "french"

Currently on the right side up of the world.

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.:* Moon Pixie *:.


.:* Moon Pixie *:.

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.

Total posts: 3492
Posted:I think seeing someone when they're angry tells you about how they deal with anger... and that perticular type of anger... like Pelle was saying... I don't think it tells you much more...

What about when you see someone smile?... like really smile! I think that tells you alot... but just about the happy stuff though too... I think it's about seeing all their sides before you make ANY judgements... and well I don't think you *ever* really see ALL of someone... even if you know them for an intire lifetime... there are always knew situations cropping up... and they could always react diferently...

Perhaps they would have a perticular tendencey toward a perticular personality... but I think personalities are so very complex... I don't think that seeing one side of someone's emotion can tell you all that much about them... just my opinion...at this point in time... hehe


*:...one day all the fairy fridges will be aligned and my pixie world will be complete...:*

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I have seen people fake a smile, and I am sure there are those out there who have faked... well you know, though I have never truly seen someone fake being angry. Anger is such a strong emotion that faking it becomes hard. Acting is one thing, but to look and seem angry outside of a script is another thing.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:I agree; I think that many faces make up a person... how can you tell someone's true face from just one? If the 'true face' is what we are really thinking/feeling rather than what we show, maybe we should look for the best 'lie detector'?

The eyes are supposed to be the windows to the soul. A cliche, but maybe a valid one?

I think the eyes are the hardest part to fake in any expression.
A smile's not a smile if it doesn't reach the eyes, you can tell if someone's really upset when they say they're not, and even Mr. Potatohead has a set of 'angry eyes'!

They show if we're tired, they can reveal what we keep in our 'medicine cabinet'

Yup. I think the eyes are a person's best indicator to their true face


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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King Of Bongo


King Of Bongo

addict
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 522
Posted:so far I reckon flynt's closest to hittin the spot...

you can't see someone's "real face" when they are angry simply because there isn't a real face as such

-a personality is made up of so many things and so many attitudes and emotions that to judge someone ultimately by just one, namely their "angry face" sounds slightly silly...

true, you may see an aspect of someone that you don't often get to see or a glimpse of someone in a truly warped state of mind, but I wouldn't classify that as being a "true face"- in any case it would be an exceptional or altered phase (of course if they then say how they "truly feel" its a different ball game).

What of the person who is always happy and fluffy and one day flips- is that one revelation her true face?
nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

I think someone's true face as such would be more like their most common face that is in sync with their feelings at the time...
thus someone who puts on a happy mask all the time but really isnt inside isnt showing their real face...

When you step into a room, people are judging you right from the start (hopefully superficially with a readiness to change that judgement), but it is only when they get to know you really well that they know your true self, this may never occur. All they can tell from that first moment is you are distressed.

I believe:
-your true self changes slowly throughout your life
-your true face is the one that characterises that period
-altered states such as anger may say a lot about someone but they are not the true face by my definition
-anger is a passing state
-the face is merely a temporary display/outlet for our minds
-knowing the mind is the gateway to knowing the soul
-knowing the soul, you one judge it not only on what it is, but on its values and what it aspires to be

then, next q!!!
when you get old you are still changing thus I think their real self at the time is probably expressed, but can be significantly different from the person they once were. However, once a disease such as alzheimers causes a degeneration of the brain, people suffering it express how they feel but their mind is warped by pain and suffering- whether you can call this their true self anymore is another matter. I think not. I like to remember people in their prime- like my granpa when I was a kid, rather than the completely different cancer-ridden (bitter) person that died having disinherited me a month before his death because he couldn't find any thank-you letters I had written to him for past birthday cards etc...
sad, but true, not that the money really mattered to me, it was more the anger behind it (and actually more cos it hurt my mum big-time which is a massive no-go area for me! -anyone who hurts my close family makes me see red and I'm a gonner!)


Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:I am sooo thankfull for your input. Spritie I have to say your words make a lot of sense to me and Raph thank you so much for sharing.

I am not sure whether it is my english here but when I said face I did not litterally mean face expression, rather a deeper idea of a face as in "does he wear a mask or not ?" allthough sometimes I agree that both are connected and being the empathetic sponge that I am I get a lot of vibes from eye contact, touch etc ... yet I am aware of this being a very dodgy unreliable thing because there is
a) the cultural boundaries you never know how each cultur expresses feelings until you spend time there
b) same goes on an individual level where you can only ASSUME something until you have been around a person long enough to get to know their face expressions, there gasps and their sighs

Kat i really like the image of Turning up the volume of your personnality

Now, If we agree on the fact that obviously there is more to us than just one side and yet some moments in time reveal bits and pieces of our personnality, then what would you say about the use of any substance... I really hesitated to ask that question and yet am really interested about your input and opinions. PLEASE do not let that be a pro/anti substances debate, please ?

I do not like when people use the excuse of being on this or that to claim them NOT being responsible for their acts that i know for sure, but would love to hear your input / opinions etc ...

thank you so much

Shine on
Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:PS : and a biiiiig LE hug to Valura

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Dom (Tall & Stunning Blonde):
Every action you take and every emotion you feel says something about who you choose to be. Again Dom makes a nice consice statement!

Thank you Dom! I miss you heaps!

hugs
drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Tee hee
Le blush, le giggle,


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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