SpinningFool
newbie
Location: Bern, CH
Member Since: 23rd Oct 2006
Total posts: 7
Posted:Hello, fellow spinners!



As promised in my introduction thread, you finally get to see some pictures of me playing poi. Well, only one to be precise, but more are to come wink



After managing the spiral move, I always wondered if it's safe to do it with fire, but searching the forum didn't turn up any really satisfying answers. So I decided to just give it a try. And I finally can say, yes, it's possible and reasonably safe, even without long sleeves / wrist pads, as long as you know what you're doing.



So here's the result (click for highres image):


Non-Https Image Link




Of course, before I even started thinking about attempting it with fire, I made sure that I'm really comfortable with the move (done it at least 100 times without messing up). Also, I thought about what I'd do if I do mess up with fire, and practised how to get out quickly if the poi tangle around my wrists.



Even though it's safe when everything goes as planned, that's what my wrists looked like afterwards wink


Non-Https Image Link




But it's not nearly as bad as it looks, I actually didn't burn myself the slightest bit, it's just grime. If you get burned, it's most likely the chain and the metal parts of the wick that cause the burns, not the flames themselves. So the important part is, first of course, to make sure that you unwind the chains quickly once the wrapped around your wrists, and second to avoid heating up the chains beforehand (caused by long stalls etc.).



So even though the flames are bigger, I'd recommend that you do the spiral early in your spin, because the chains don't have that much time to heat up. Also, metal takes quite a while to cool down, so if you already did a couple spins in a row, you might want to think twice about doing a spiral wink



Of course, I can't take any responsibilty whatsoever for what you do, I'm just sharing the experiences I made. I've done the spiral with fire about 10 times, and fortunately I never messed up. If you do mess up however, I imagine there's a potential for serious injuries, so be careful, and have a well informed safety team ready.



Hope this has been useful to somebody, have fun and take care!



Lukas


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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hey there...

There's been a few people doing spirals with fire for a few years... most notably (at least, in my opinion with the most accuracy...) Andy Haus.

(I think he does one in his COL video? Or is that without fire? Can't remember...)

Anyways... a way to stop the chains from burning you hands (since that is the only bit that will) is to stitch together a little kevlar tape, to make it into a tube. Then slide the tube over your handles and chains so the kevlar covers the metal quicklinks.

There was a much better explanation and thread about this somewhere....

smile

Have fun x


Getting to the other side smile

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Another idea might be to do the wrap on your hands rather than your wrists. that way, it if goes wrong, all you need to do is point your hands down and let gravity pull the tangled chains off your hands.



You can also try this by wrapping the poi around one hand ...I know Andy does this with a meteor ( as per that short BBC clip from last year, the one where he goes into a crouch as it wraps ) a move I've been trying to "perfect" ever since I first saw it.



Clare...accuracy...good point...I find quite often I need to do a beat in wallplane to sort of line things up but I much prefer to go into this straight out of a weave. I find it very challenging to accurately bring the poi across my body and put it in the flat plane needed to pull this off...practice...practice...practice.



And if you're a real keener...there's a btb version of the spiral wrap too. I seen it done ( flairflair from DMP ) but never explored it myself



edit...I've noticed Nick pulling these off in his last couple of videos.

EDITED_BY: Stout (1181663363)


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Saxo
newbie

Member Since: 13th Jun 2007
Total posts: 1
Posted:Hmmm is it possible for you to link the videos of Andy doing this? Would love to see the clip with the meteor too... smile

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SpinningFool
newbie
Location: Bern, CH
Member Since: 23rd Oct 2006
Total posts: 7
Posted:@Clare:
Do you by any chance remember which COL that was? I only found credits for COL 5 and 2006, and Andy Haus wasn't listed in either of them. And I already got COL 2, and he's not in there either wink
As for the kevlar tape tube: I already did something similar: I covered the links below the handles with some leather, because the couplings I got for my ballchain got rather sharp edges and hurt when I wrap the poi around my hands to shorten them.
But for the coupling near the wick I'd have to use kevlar, but I haven't found any kevlar tape in / delivered to Switzerland yet frown Or are you talking about the very same kevlar tape you use for the wicks?

@Stout:
Yep, I've been trying to wrap around my hands instead of my wrists, but haven't had any success yet. As for now that's ok I think, because it works quite well for me, but wrapping around the hands would be safer, and also more elegant wink
As for the accuracy, that's definitely crucial to doing the spiral. I (righthanded) found it easiest to go into a spiral to the left of me from the reverse weave. When taking the poi to the left side of my body, I have the most control over the planes if I try to keep the poi as close to my body as possible. So in the end it feels more like moving my body 90 around the weave (just enough to get it out of the way), than the other way round. Hope this makes some sense biggrin That way I was able to eliminate the need for an additional wallplane beat (also did that in the beginning).

BTB spiral? God no, I now my limits biggrin (something rather weird is wrong with my right arm / shoulder that makes BTB stuff quite difficult for me (Limited range of motion)).


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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:man, ya'll need to start watching glowsticking videos or videos of fire poi spinners who started with glowsticks.



Spirals and wraps with fire up the wazoo since 02 and earlier - btb and whatnot wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:Simple but cool and that is what we all like to see now isn't it.

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Stone...

Yeep, didn't read it properly... you definitely get much more control spiralling around your hand than your wrist, which (for me) tends to go flying off in lots of interesting directions!

And I go straight into it from a weave too... well, the first one I go into from a weave, but after coming out of it, bring it across my body to spiral in front of me again - which is the wall plane smile

Not getting there directly yet though!

Nick is doing some beautiful spirals at the mo, all over the place... (possible inspired from Andy's Canadian visit a few years ago?!)... lol, it's so easy to trace the lineage of some moves around the world.

Andy won COL 5 under the title Brother and Son... and the BBC clip Stout was talking about was shot last year when he was visiting... it's here:
Andy and spirals

Kael... yep, there were folk doing spirals with glowsticks ages ago... but I haven't seen a video of any of them doing it nicely... in my opinion.

shrug

smile


Getting to the other side smile

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splinterific
splinterific

enthusiast

Member Since: 12th Mar 2007
Total posts: 248
Posted:as regards the kevlar tubing you can get it from freurshow.de smile

i cant spell it but im sure you know the site smile

im working on these myself but i have a mental block on doing them with my monkey fists...


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thombre
member
Location: Nottingham
Member Since: 6th Oct 2006
Total posts: 74
Posted:Does anyone have any hints for spirals with chains, cos I can pull them off pretty well with socks, but just can't seem to get the bounce to unwrap properly with chains.

Love the photo, by the way


Buy gerbils cos you can't spin with hamsters

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:practice wink try to open your hands a little to give the spiral out some impetus

don't forget the horizontal ones!

only got these recently, but starting to realise that there's a lot of scope for them

likemypoimyheartisonfire does some nice stuff with antispinning them in one vid as well


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I find there's an easier way of turning into this move but I still practice all four ( fwd, rev, turn left, right ) variations because I want the freedom of being able to do this move when I feel like it rather than having to set myself up for it.

More often than I'd like to admit..If I have to set myself up for a move, I forget just what that move I was setting myself up for actually was, and end up spinning something else by default while feeling like a complete dork for forgetting something that I'd decided only seconds earlier.

Kael..it was your videos that got me going on the whole lots of wraps thing, Goodbye to Chicago is still one of my favourite videos ever.

Thombre...the short answer is ballchain, but try to do the wrap fast enough so there's some bounce when the poi heads hit your hands giving them just that much more momentum when you separate your hands to accelerate the poi. This is one of the reasons that I'm working on the one handed version as I can slow down/ stop the poi and also start the acceleration, just by twisting my hand.

Humm yes...the horizontal version...I should really work those out, but for some unexplained reason I haven't..yet. Khan has a video with a couple of these in it as does the Emma, firedoll video over on Drew's blog does too. ( for some strange reason ...I can't seem to stop watching that firedoll video over and over wink ) I'm thinking these would be great when combined with a 4 beat corkscrew. too bad my split time 4bt CS sucks...same time, no problem.


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squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:When I unwrap a spiral, I find it helpful to twist my wrists in the direction of the wrap so that I can rotate my wrists back to center and give the poi that extra torque to unwrap. It just takes a bit of timing.

*looks up*

ok, that's vaguely confusing. example?

3-bt forward weave from the left to the right side of my body. As the weave enters the right side plane, I pivot to the right, bring my hands together and begin the spiral in the wall plane. My left hand is on top, right on bottom; palms together.

At the point that the spiral culminates, I twist my wrists so that my hands are vertical, in a praying-type pose. This, along with the bounceback, forces the poi to begin the unwrap. Once its started, I can more easily start spreading my hands apart until complete.

I like doing it this way because I dont necessarily need to move super fast when entering the move. This also cuts down on that impact from the bounceback. That stings. smile


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted: Written by: Stout


I'm thinking these would be great when combined with a 4 beat corkscrew. too bad my split time 4bt CS sucks...same time, no problem.



Stout, you are indeed correct that these are great combined with a 4 beat corkscrew. They are also great combined with a 4 beat windmill, when the poi are behind your head. That one's actually my favorite, though I can't quite pull it off...I managed to do it once.

Hmmm...all this talk of spirals has given me an idea of what to do on my lunch break today... biggrin


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Skatto
Skatto

Walking on whims...
Location: Eastbourne, UK
Member Since: 12th Jan 2007
Total posts: 687
Posted:Ooh, pretty!



I best go find out how to do thse "spirals" of yours... tongue


Skatto

"Fly like a mouse,
Run like a cushion,
Be the small bookcase."

For goodness sake, don't aggravate the otters!!!

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squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:that behind the head spiral sounds sweet. Like a giant halo. Im going to have to practice that one. It would go great right after some angelwings.:D

"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:great first post, and discusion. anyone got any pointers on how to through-wrap te spiral? Mine always loses momentum on one or other end.

Andy?

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Tom....after reading your post, I asked myself " Why would anyone even want to thru wrap a spiral wrap anyways? " but when I got to thinking about it , one thing I figured is this might be a fun way to do a plane change, from, say a horizontal OTH spiral, chop your hands down into wallplane and unwind in that plane.

Now I can't do a horizontal spiral( yet...I'll work on it ) , so I can't speak from experience, but my guess is your timing would have to be impeccable, and you'd have to pull this off really, really fast.

A slow, languid 4 beat CS--> a nice graceful horizontal spiral----> A fast chop down into wallplane ( accompanied by a loud hiiiiyaaaaaaa !!!! ) ----> accelerate the poi through unwrapping the spiral ----> into something fast in the weave family.

At least it works great in my mind biggrin cool


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Suibom
Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2005
Total posts: 577
Posted:Heya Stout,

Yeah, spiral wraps work well for plane changing, and you don't need impeccable timing, depending on how well you can unwrap the spiral. You can do it nice and slow (even with fire if your skin can handle the heat) if you are good with flicking the unwind. I believe I was even workin on spiral in front then under the arm then unwind behind at one point.. tho I can't remember how far I got with that (I haven't played with poi in quite a while). But basically you can carry spirals into many different release locations.

Peace,
- Sui


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Yeah, I think Sui is right that the unwrap is really the key. If you have control of that part, you can take your sweet time getting there. Re: the burn factor, if I know/think I'm going to do spirals (either the spiral wrap or even just each poi on its respective hand) I wear gloves. I've found that the really thin lambskin gloves U.S. police officers wear are perfect -- thin enough that you can still feel the poi, but enough protection that you can keep the poi wrapped for a properly dramatic pause before it gets too hot. And they're skintight, and generally don't have the lining that adds extra bulk.

Inspired by this thread, I went back to working on spirals after not really playing with them for months. I never quite got the unwrap down properly and it's like I forgot about them or maybe it was avoidance. I discovered that the addage "use it or lose it" is so true...much to my dismay, but not really to my surprise.


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Heya Sui....I had a go,,well, ok a flail, with thru wrapping spirals last night, and yep, I was off base thinking that these had to be done fast.

I was using socks, and I figure that it won't be much more difficult with chains ( I like the skin on the back of my hands too much to want to practice/learn this with chains) and I'm finally tending towards thinking about getting myself some gloves.

So far, I've given up regular wraps on bare skin after burning myself twice with hot metal, in the same spot, on the same night and now I find myself getting tired of these little washer shaped arcs that I'm branding into my hands by doing regular hand wraps

Khan, I know the gloves you're talking about, problem is whenever I wear gloves like those I feel like going out and committing some king of crime, like strangling someone, weird, I know, but I'll get over it.

And I'll finally get to explore freehanding with fire.

Use it or loose it...so true...last wednesday, I found myself unable to do an antispin flower, but hey, I managed to pull of an overhead atomic. I've been scared of doing those with fire, even though I've been practicing them for months, because when that move goes wrong, it's both poi , straight down, usually into my face.


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:something else to think about with spirals: where do you go on the unwrap? if you do two 'seperated' spirals on each hand, you can unwind into airwraps.

Also spiralling turning flowers, : using spiral thruwraps that unwind on the turn, so big cirrcles ath the sides, small ones at the top/bottom


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Spirally flowers are lush! I rarely remember to do them though. It's been a long time since I've paid attention to poi threads, until this thread showed up, and now I'm remembering all this stuff I learned and never really pull out, not just spirals! Thanks!

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yay! i got a bit of a spiral through wrap happening, not quite fully seperated but at least they both maintain momentum now. biggrin

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Geeza
Geeza

addict
Location: Leeds
Member Since: 14th May 2006
Total posts: 694
Posted:I can do spiral with fire. Just do spiral with 130gram juggling balls a lot then u will be able to do it with fire fine.



mine dont wrap around my wrist, just hands and they dont leave those marks as in the picture. It leaves more of a mark when i do normal bicep and arm wraps


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Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:. . . spirals with fire . . . beautiful peace

Non-Https Image Link
bouncehug


My 2 cents
As long as the contact between the skin and the hot parts is kept under a certain limit there should be no problem. If you dont have a problem with first degree burns wink
It is possible to speed up the "rebounce" of the wrap to a "kickback" so that contact time between skin and Poi is further reduced up to a minimum (Similar to the fast-wraps seen in Glow-Stringing videos). A further advantage is the perpetuation of energy so that the opening of the spiral doesn't have to be supported by a movement of the hand.

If one prefers no contact, one can stall the Poi "over" the hands while both hands are kept apart. When the wrapping starts the hands circle into the direction of the Poi. This way the momentum of the Poi is taken out and they stall. Stalls up and down seem to be easier to control in the beginning than horizontal ones.

Concerning the side changing of wraps/spirals I think it is useful to understand the "problematics" of one handed or meteor figures of 8. Continuous side changing of a wrapped Poi would be a good exercise for these imho

Hope that made sense
All the best hugs cheers and enjoy the longest day of the year sunny
And to all our fellows on the southern hemisphere who have their winter-solstice - fire up and no worries, summer is coming biggrin

Greetings from Paris and an extra Uberparis grouphug heart clap
ubbrollsmile
andy


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:smile

Happy Solstice Andy...

hug


Getting to the other side smile

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ma'tina
ma'tina

multiplex
Location: somewhere...
Member Since: 20th Mar 2005
Total posts: 611
Posted:Heya to all! wave
.....ohhhhh I so much love this pic of dan (up there in andy's post)......
and the most accurate and inspiring spiral with fire i have seen so far are surely done by andy-house ...and meenik-nick!
.....but what else to say after his description......have fun spinning wink
hug


- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Happy so(u)lstice wherever you are hug

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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