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Forums > Social Discussion > How to get round "opinion" arguments.

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted: Written by: David Whiteland - book of pages


Here is a method for the settlement of dispute between two parties:


1) A&B agree to resolve the dispute. (this is not a trivial step. It requires that a dispute exists and that it's settlement is indeed wanted.)

2) A argues B's case, questioned by b until B is convinced that A can represent B's side.

3) Step 2 is repeated with the roles reversed.

4) Then and only then do A&B demonstrate the false reasoning and unreasonable values they had to adopt in order to uphold the others argument...




When I remember, I always find it very helpful advice. Damn fine book/graphic novel too.

hug


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Interesting theory, but sorry, I think it's a theory only.
EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1166442298)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Ahhhhh Idealism... I remember it with fond nostalgia... rolleyes

If only the more stub... I mean 'Strong Willed' were willing to take this route...

I shall check that out graphic novel out...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:Like I said "when I remember" ubblol



Rouge Dragon- Other than human nature do you see any other problems with the method.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Nope, Human nature is pretty much an all-encompassing factor...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: Chrono333


Rouge Dragon- Other than human nature do you see any other problems with the method.



Um, I see that as being a pretty big hurdle, actually ubblol


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:sometimes logic does win out. Richard Feynman has a good anecdote on that.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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monkey_brains
newbie
Location: devon, torquay
Member Since: 18th Dec 2006
Total posts: 8
Posted:there is no logic in the world

there are only so many days left in this wrold. live each day to the limit. lets all get high!!

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:I'm sure there is smile

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:if there was no logic in the world the whole place would brake down into madness sheep would eat cars. people would suddenly accelerate to the speed of light for no particular reason. people would find there potted plants changed inexplicably into minature zebras. the music of cliff richard would be concidered ground brakeing and edgy. kittens would give birth to snakes, which would in tern begin writeing shakespearian sonets on the back of a flying blue whale and you could simultaniously be 6 compleatly diffrent people at the same time. as entertaining as the world would be (appart from the fact we would all be lissting to cliff richard almost constantly) i dont think its the world we live in smile
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1166447342)


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Thanks for ruining the illusion Rob frown

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted: Written by: robnunchucks

you could simultaniously be 6 compleatly diffrent people at the same time



Would 6 even be real? I'm sure 1+1=2 is defined by logic, so dos that mean that all maths and numbers wouldn't work?

confused


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:im sorry your welcome to still beleave there is no logic in the world if it makes you happy wink but it might cause you problems next time you plow your car though a hedge in a life or death atempt to escape a deadly car eating sheep biggrin



and 6 would be real as well and not been real it would also be equivlent to 6 and to every other number as well as well as not been equal to anything it would also be equal to a monkey devided by a set of bagpipes smile



actualy a world with no logic sounds kinda fun biggrin

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1166447610)


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted: Written by: robnunchucks


im sorry your welcome to still beleave there is no logic in the world if it makes you happy wink but it might cause you problems next time you plow your car though a hedge in a life or death atempt to escape a deadly car eating sheep biggrin

and 6 would be real as well and not been real it would also be equivlent to 6 and to every other number as well as well as not been equal to anything it would also be equal to a monkey devided by a set of bagpipes smile

actualy a world with no logic sounds kinda fun biggrin



Maybe it's the afterlife eek


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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted: Written by: robnunchucks


it would also be equal to a monkey divided by a set of bagpipes



ubblol AWESOME!


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:if the afterlife contained no logic it would both be the afterlife and not be the afterlife simultaiously wink



infact it would be anything you want it to be while at the same time been everything you didn't want it to be as well as everything else and nothing else. in short it would be exacly like a realy realy bad acid trip in which nothing made sence in the slightist and you were totaly confused and bewildred but you understood every facet of the universe in absolute detail.



anyways im geting carryed away with these things there far to fun to think up but i'll stop now i promise biggrin



as for the original post its by no meens a perfect system but its a good one. i beleave most people refer to it as playing devils advocate.

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1166449940)


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:This system looks like a variation to the six hats model that Mr. Glass mentioned over on the "good morning, I'd like to have an arguement" thread. I could see it working well in a group situation, but between a couple of individuals,, yep stub...strong willdness could be a real stumbling block.

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:I was talking to some Jehovahs Witnesses the other day.

They think that the 2nd coming of Christ happened invisibly in 1914.

I don't think I would ever believe that, no matter how much I understood what they were saying, and I doubt they would ever see my point of view.

I think something more or less the same happens in any debate about a subject that the people involved talk though well.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:debate is imposable unless both sides first state what would falsify there beleafs. only once this is out of the way can each side go about trying to meet the conditions the other has set. also there is the posibily that both sides will falsify each others position meening nether are right.

however with alot of belef particualy religous ones. People will respond that nothing can falsify there beleaf. for example even if you managed to take them back in time some how to meet jesus him self and he told them in no uncertain terms that they had it all wrong. they still wouldn't change there minds. with people like that i agree totaly debate is pointless excersize.


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Sorry to be off topic, but rob, can you get firefox 2.0? It has a spell checker built in. And it would be nice if you could use correct english punctuation and grammar.

It makes it easier to read for the people reading your posts.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Mascot
Mascot

enthusiast

Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 301
Posted:What would falsify your belief in scientific methodology Rob?

Walls may have ears but they don't have eyes

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Good question!

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:mcp lol fair enough how do you use the spell checker in ff2?





ahhh a very very good question there i had to think about that one biggrin



my beleaf in the scienfic methodology would be falisfyed if we found it imposable to make acurate reliable repeatable predictions with it. so for example say whenever we did testing we got compleatly diffrent results each time and for some reason it became imposable to reliably get the same results in the same experiment no matter how carfuly we did it, results of course includes the probiblity distrbutions for stuff like quantum mechanincs etc. suppose it suddenly became imposable to predict the outcome of any event. or even the probiblity distribution of any event.



so if suddenly 2+2 stop been 4 and suddenly 2+2=15 or 2+2=a small philipeno girl. something along those lines then i'ed have to accept that the fundimental principles of science logic had been compromised and the sciencifc method was useless.



so i guess if someone could show that world didn't behave in a logical predictable way. or if the world suddenly stoped behaveing in a logical way. or if someone could show that the universe just randomly did what ever the hell it felt in a totaly unordered and unpredictable way.



still its a very good question i'll have to give it some more thought try and come up with a more consice definition.



Concise Defination my beleaf in the scientific method would be falisifyed, if it became or someone proved that it was imposable to acurately and repeatably predict the results (results includes probiblity distributions) of any experiment.

EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1166549585)


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:it should work automatically, underlying incorrect words with red squiggles. Just like word. right clicking will bring up a menu with correct word options.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:seems to be on but its not working??
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1166549666)


My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:get an extension that'll do the same then

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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