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Page: 12
Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/03/04/iraq.usa.shirt.reut/index.html


"Man Arrested for 'Peace' T-Shirt"


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele'sWhippingBoy


member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

Total posts: 442
Posted:I read that. It's really sad.

What's worse is that he bought the shirt IN the mall. The United States is stupid.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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Kaji


Kaji

Quantum Theorist
Location: Vansterdam

Total posts: 564
Posted:Kinda Scary actually....

In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There

Total posts: 6140
Posted:They have GOT to be joking!

That is so stupid, i dont see why they did it. I mean isn't their freedom of speech?
And he brought it in the mall!

Alice


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:thats fuct.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Notice there is no mention of exactly which law he was breaking, or mall rule, that started this conflict to begin with?
And my guess is that the t-shirt was very tasteful (not with a graffic picture of shooting bush or anything) because the man is a legal representative as well as being with his son.
Oh hello!

It'll be thrown out, OR he will have to pay a fine for tresspassing, but I think the mall will give if he threatens to fight it. Then the mall's actual rules will come into question, the security guards decision, etc.... It's all BS.

But the man definately got the point across didn't he? Instead of whomever he happened to come across while wearing the shirt, now the world knows the idiocy ensuing from the political "war is good" propaganda, making people even more less likely to support it. Good for him! $15 well spent! lol


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:Only in America...?

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:F@cked up & worse because it's no big suprise!

I agree MisStix: only in America (& possibly in the UK!?)

Give a chance


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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:nice remission of facts, CNN. Evidently the mall had a problem with protesters earlier in the week wearing peace t-shirts and protesting loudly in the mall. This is still scary, n if I was the guy I would have told them f*** off too, but in that light it doesn't seem quite as bad..._This_ doesn't scare me, anyone with a few free hours check out tthe Domestic Security Enlargement Act of 2003. All it would take to place this in effect would be a small terrorist incident on our soil. scary shit, n u think we're losing rights now...I just hope I can get out before the country gets locked down, not kidding, mark my words..

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:I don't know whether I was impressed or repulsed by this, but General Pants in Sydney has been selling Tshirts with "No War" for around a month now. Is this an honest statement of their support for peace? Or is it just crass commercialism?

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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plantgirlll


member
Location: Sydney Australia

Total posts: 150
Posted:I personally think that the commercialism aspect comes down to the consumer.

How many homemade "no war" shirts could be made for the cost of buying one at the ridiculous prices General Pants charge?

If someone thinks a shirt is going to make a difference, instead of buying 1, maybe they should make 10 & give them to their friends.


People take different roads seeking fulfillment & happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.-H. Jackson Browne

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Why? is it no longer cool to have a healthy economy or something?

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plantgirlll


member
Location: Sydney Australia

Total posts: 150
Posted:It's way cool to have a healthy cranking economy! I just think that in this circumstance the statement should be more important than the label promoting it. General Pants could sell more shirts at a lower profit margin maybe, get the mesaage out there if they really believe it and keep the ecomic wheels turning.

People take different roads seeking fulfillment & happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.-H. Jackson Browne

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:quote:Originally posted by plantgirlll:
If someone thinks a shirt is going to make a difference, instead of buying 1, maybe they should make 10 & give them to their friends. Plantgirll.. you rock! I love it!

Now what some needs to explain to me is why the anti-war movement is so strong overseas and yet people are too afraid here to express it. Oh wait! Might be because people keep getting arrested for using their constitutional rights.

Hey Malcolm, maybe I'll move up my trip!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:Yeah, I actually heard this guy interviewed on Fox News not but a few hours ago.

At first I was a bit flabbergasted as to how they were arrested, then you hear about the previous demonstrations in the mall, and while I laughed my ass off at dillard's for reporting these two "rebels" I couldn't really take issue with the cops doing their job. No force was used, no voices were raised, nothing, a private business raised complaints, a private security force warned people to leave, when they did not it was a case of tresspassing and the cops were called; the guy freely admitted to all of this and while he found the complaint ridiculous he didn't see anything particularly Draconian about an idiot store manager.

No different than when a crazy guy gets asked to leave the book store for reading over people's shoulders.... only less good reason for it.

Still, I find it more annoying to read all the responses to this little story along the lines of "only in America" and "The United States is stupid"..... cause we all know this would NEVER happen anywhere else in the world!

snobs

[ 06. March 2003, 18:46: Message edited by: DaiTenshi ]


No one knows me like I do.

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Trippie Hippie
BRONZE Member since May 2002

Trippie Hippie

old hand
Location: Bewildered state of nothingnes...

Total posts: 733
Posted:quote: He could face up to a year in prison if convicted WTF
Bunch of arse holes!!!!!
Has the world gone completely mad, What the hell must his son have thought???
The stupidity!!!!!
LOL
Taking it easy
Trippy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone.
High Class Hippy No:1
N.E.W.B. Agent #012
"I Got Soul"
Non-Https Image Link



Trippie Hippie- Monty Dons secret love child

Fly like a mouse, run like a pillow, be the small book case.

"Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone".

Because dressing up is fun.

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Morgane


member
Location: Austria

Total posts: 102
Posted:scary REAAAL scary.

Morgane


Out to Wrong Rights and Depress the Opressed.

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Trippie Hippie
BRONZE Member since May 2002

Trippie Hippie

old hand
Location: Bewildered state of nothingnes...

Total posts: 733
Posted:quote:Originally posted by DaiTenshi:

Still, I find it more annoying to read all the responses to this little story along the lines of "only in America" and "The United States is stupid"..... cause we all know this would NEVER happen anywhere else in the world!

snobs OOOOooooo, Hand bags at fifty paces!!!!

Fair point tho
LOL
Taking it easy
Trippy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone.
High Class Hippy No:1
N.E.W.B. Agent #012
"I Got Soul"
Non-Https Image Link



Trippie Hippie- Monty Dons secret love child

Fly like a mouse, run like a pillow, be the small book case.

"Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone".

Because dressing up is fun.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Well you don't know what the protesters who were there earlier did. If they are like a lot of the peace protesters they were probably really loud and obnoxious and chaseing away customers. The mall has to protect the shop owners and do what they can to encourage profits, avoid liability etc..

So some guy comes in wearing the same shirt. The security was probably pretty irritated by the first demostration and thought this was a reoccurance. Sure they over-reacted but IT IS PRIVATE PROPERTY. It is a well known fact that you hand over some of your rights when you enter a private property. This guy is a lawyer, he knows that better then anyone.

I don't think there is any politics involved here, and if there are they aren't political motivations on the side of the cops. It is political motivations on the side of the property owners. Which is perfectly legal. The cops were doing their jobs. The guy broke a law by refusing to follow their rules and not cooperating.

He won't get any prison time. The one year maximum is for people who deserve it. So if some guy really does something terrible a judge isn't crippled when it comes time to make a sentencing decision.


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:As I said before, this guy will probably get off completely free and the charges will be tossed, especially if he wasn't protesting outwardly.

However, Astar, a mall is not private property. It is public property that is usually owned by a city and corporate co-operative. This means that anyone is welcome to be there, but there are rules that need to be followed. He was wrong in not leaving when asked, and he admitted it but he still technically broke no rules or laws to start out with. He was assumed to be a protestor based on his clothing, not his actions.
We have the right to peaceful assembly. Therefore, if he was having a day out with his son, which is what even the police admits he was having, and he was not causing a raucous, he was not a non-peaceful protestor, they really had no right to single him out and ask him to leave based on a t-shirt. That is where they were wrong, and he knows it. He admits his fault in not complying to a semi-reasonable request, but without actually regulatory grounds backing it up, there really isn't a leg to stand on.

(I LOVED my constitutional law class. )

And what is the point again of protesting in a local mall? Wouldn't someplace on capital hill be better? I think people have this whole anti-war stuff all wrong. They need to look to the 60's for inspiration and guidelines of what to do and what not to do.

Anyway DaiTenshi, I am one of the ones who claims only in America, and I am from New York. I have little to no pride when it comes to American politics and change at the drop of a bill regulations.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:The mall here is 100% private and it is private property. What makes you think this mall isn't 100% private? I don't know how things work in the states (every state having diffrent rules and every city having their own rules and standards on property zoneing and what not)

How do you know this mall is co-owned by the city?


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:The fact that it is private property does not mean that they may indiscriminately tell anyone to bug off for any reason. For example, they can't ban certain races from entering.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Astar..*sigh* Why are you still arguing this?

Malls are set up according to ordinances that state they will be open to the public in accordance with federal, county and city laws. Wanna know how I know this? I took Property Law, Real Estate Law, Contract Law, Business Law, Introduction to Legal Basics and Constitutional Law, because I knew these would actually come in handy. The city, counties and states usually fund the building of the mall or center for the most part, which is then MANAGED by a private conglamerate unless it is otherwise privetly funded during which time it signs an agreement with the city that it is for open public usage. I used the word "owner" because it was the most simplistic way to term it without getting into codes and legal subsections. And, a new mall is being built in the area, and one just closed. It is all over the news here.

He was not breaking any regulations by wearing the t-shirt. In fact, dress codes can only be enforced in "public" (restaraunts, theaters, etc when they are publically displayed, which is why the "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs went up everywhere when those laws were passed (for health code reasons) in the 70's. Public indecency codes state that clothing covering the lower mid-region of the body must be worn in public gathering arenas. Unless they told the store to stop selling it (because it is very decent clothing, and can be word within the confines of the decency laws) or posted signs in the mall stating that any anti-war attire could not be worn, he was well within his rights. And he knew it because he is involved in the judicial system and he still put in on!

Again, if he was not being loud or disruptive, then he was doing nothing wrong to be approached in the first place.

[ 07. March 2003, 06:33: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030305_2723.html
br>
I think they realised they were a OTT..

Hot tempers lead to rash decisions..


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:The ABC article hints this isn't an isolated incident. The argument about previous protestors causing trouble is absolutley rubbish, and you should be ashamed of thinking it gave the decision to evict him credibility. Innocent till proven guilty. Apply the same principle to race - a black guy shoplifts, so are they allowed to ask every black person to leave the mall? Imagine the fun that would cause!

DaiTenshi, I honestly think this wouldn't happen in most other countries. Maybe only in repressive places like Burma and China. I'm constantly amazed at the low level of personal rights Americans have in the 'land of the free'. The US is dominated by fear, and it's killing the country and all that it used to stand for.


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Pele'sWhippingBoy


member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

Total posts: 442
Posted:Mall Drops Peace T-Shirt Charges
quote:The mall owner has changed its mind, and the charges will be dropped, said Guilderland, New York, Police Chief James Murley.

"This is a no-win situation," the police chief said.I'm glad the charges were dropped. I think it was pretty crappy that this happened to him.

[ 08. March 2003, 03:46: Message edited by: Pele'sWhippingBoy ]


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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Trippie Hippie
BRONZE Member since May 2002

Trippie Hippie

old hand
Location: Bewildered state of nothingnes...

Total posts: 733
Posted:Thank god for that!!!
LOL
Taking it easy
Trippy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone.
High Class Hippy No:1
N.E.W.B. Agent #012
"I Got Soul"
Non-Https Image Link



Trippie Hippie- Monty Dons secret love child

Fly like a mouse, run like a pillow, be the small book case.

"Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone".

Because dressing up is fun.

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twirlywhirlyfiregirlie (nancy)


member
Location: Matlock,derbyshire uk

Total posts: 78
Posted:oh my...... u know what? now is the time i actually worry for when i bring a child into the world i fear for my 2yr old nephew i dont want him to grow up into this world so full of hate and bad stuff people getting arrested for having a god dam opinion it makes me sick it really does! grrrrrrrrr its so fuct up

Who are you? Who slips into my robot body and whispers to my ghost?

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Woo!


Woo!

HCH No 2
Location: Chester, Cheshire.

Total posts: 216
Posted:I found it more annoying that he said quote: "released on my own recognizance" What does that mean? Is it American for Recognition?

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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
Posted:What a bunch of sanctimonious botards! I swear, this country is being Fed-Ex'd to Hell in a handcart.

In honor of this sterling symbol of American Double-Standards, I have added one more of my favorite quotes to my signature.


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hey Scientist,
Recognizance means essentially that you give your word and they let you go with only writing on a record. No trial, hearing or anything. There is no bail, bond or exchange of money to purchase freedom. You agree to behave, they agree to let you go.
It's legalese for "We know that we can't win this one, so agree to this and make us look like we did a good job."


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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