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Forums > Social Discussion > Google and Chinese net censorship

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:Right, did a search, didn't turn up any results, so I think this will make a fascinating discussion.



So, Google China then. Are they right to adopt Chinese net censorship policies in order to gain a foothold in China, or are they merely money-grabbing amoral capitalists? Same applies to Microsoft and Yahoo.



For my tuppence, I think a fundamentaly western company gaining a foothold in China can only be a good thing. Obviously they won't be able to operate without adhering to Chinese policy, but having such a huge company (run by people who believe in freedom of speech) operating in China is a positive step. Sometimes (sadly) big business has as much influence as governments on a nations policies (*Bush* cough *Oil* cough), but I think this can also work in a positive way if the company values are right. And I do believe freedom of speech is right.



There are boundaries that have to be drawn though, such as Yahoo providing the Chinese government with information that led to the arrest of dissident bloggers. That, I disagree with. But it opens up a whole can of worms....



I just hope that by posting this, the Chinese government doesn't decide to block HoP... eek



Right, let's here everyones opinions. Off you go peeps! smile

EDITED_BY: SamboFlux (1156490415)


My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:My work blocks HOP...

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:Doc.. Somehow I knew you'd be the first to respond to this thread... wink



Luckily my work hasn't caught on yet... if they had any idea how much time I spend on HoP st work they'd no doubt do a "beijing" on me.... wink

EDITED_BY: SamboFlux (1156459429)


My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool

Total posts: 464
Posted:Well, I am hoping Google is trying to play trojon horse to the system. Fact is, Google has done its best to broaden information transparency in most areas. It could either completely desert China which would be a bad call commercial and in term of its starting objective. Let hope Google is going to put a crack in the dam which is going to break out into a breach.

Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool

Total posts: 464
Posted:And the link doesn't work for me for some reason. frown

Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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maus
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia

Total posts: 4191
Posted:I think its good they've managed to get in there at all.

Also various "sensitive" issues for the chinese can still be looked up, as all any inquisitive chinese chappie has to do is use the american/uk version, and they will get more search results.

It is sad that china is still censoring its history, but thats the choice their officials have made, and there isn't really anything that google can do about it.


Granted, when google started they said they wanted to get as much information to as many people as possible, and they wouldn't ever censor/limit search results, but in my eyes its just a compromise.

Yes, they have gone back on what they have said, however in doing this they are essentially providing the opportunity for a lot more information, for a lot more people.

I'm tired....its early...I'm babbling! rolleyes


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Nope, I do not favour to comply with chinese censorship.

IMHO It's compromising on principles, due to money. If China want's to participate and enjoy the benefits of the Internet, they should comply with western standards/ freedom of information.

Too many big corporations already kiss the KPOC's ass just to tackle the market - sucks. Also for the sake of the chinese people and those dissidents you were talking about.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:I largely agree. No one would have gained anything if google had taken a "principaled" approach and refused to go to China. It's lead to a lot of criticism from leftist commentators (of the I've-never-had-to-make-a-difficult-decision-in-my-life kind). However, even limited access to information is better than nothing, and people in China will inevitably ask why they can't search for "freedom" or "Tienamen Square".

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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maus
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia

Total posts: 4191
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)


However, even limited access to information is better than nothing, and people in China will inevitably ask why they can't search for "freedom" or "Tienamen Square".



Exactly, and by allowing google on their internet at all, if gives them access to the american version, meaning although it will take a bit more time to find it, the information is still there at least.


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Dont the Chinese know their government is keeping things from them?
Things like that would kinda make me want to do something about it. umm


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maus
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia

Total posts: 4191
Posted:They tried that once before...

Tiananmen Square frown


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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted: Written by: FireTom


IMHO It's compromising on principles, due to money. If China want's to participate and enjoy the benefits of the Internet, they should comply with western standards/ freedom of information.



why? why should they comply with western standards? That implies a lot more than censorship of information as although the internet is supposedly 'global' it really isn't, it's western, it doesn't support non-western alphabets very easily, it doesn't allow countries to have their own typable domains, it requires that people know a certain amount of english to be able to use it and to code it, it's not global at all. What China is doing is making some part of the internet their own because it doesn't currently cater for their needs... which may include censorship of information, which goes completely against the idea of the Internet probably, but unless the w3c and other Internet bodies really really get the Internationalization act together, then the whole thing could break apart. This is a nice article that explains why, and about new domain endings appearing...
Divided by a Common Language

so Google actually being able to go into China, may be a corporate move, but may also hold the Internet together in some way...?

This may have gone slightly off topic, but in the end the censorship issue comes down to the country's politics, and if the British or American governments had cause to do similar, i'm sure they would. shrug Try not to assume 'western' standards are, or should be global


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:I agree with Jeff. I think Google are in a much stronger position to influence Chinese policy and apply pressure than if they'd stood off and kept the moral high ground.



In any case, I reckon the KPOC are fighting a losing battle anyway. The way people communicate is undergoing such a massive revolution they're not going to be able to contain it for ever.... smile


My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted: Written by: UmbiliciformCraterOnFace


Dont the Chinese know their government is keeping things from them?
Things like that would kinda make me want to do something about it. umm



if you can find a copy it's really worth watching the BBC series that was made on China and broadcast a while back, the way politics works there is interesting... extremely effective and quite scary...


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:You are right, they did do it before.
So why dont they do it again? confused
If there are more reoccurances of Tianamen Square, not only will the rest of the world start taking a notice, but (eventually) China's population will be decimated, thus weakening their economy and the entire structure of the country.

Or am I just living in a dream world? shrug


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maus
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia

Total posts: 4191
Posted:Dream no...perfect maybe. smile

They've had revolts before because of the way the government has handled certain things...and because of this they don't want people getting the same idea...


but by censoring it, they are essentially drawing more attention to it, because so many people from other cultures are kicking up such a fuss about it.

shrug


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Sometimes I think it's better to enforce national laws in regards to the internet, than to have america force it's values/interests on everyone.

http://torrentfreak.com/how-the-piratebay-raid-changed-sweden/


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I can't follow up on the belief, that "Google" will bring revolution or change to the Chinese.

IMHO anyone moving into the chinese market is doing this just for the buck and at the same time contributing to slave labour and the exploitation of a billion people, along with global resources.

I do not know enough about internet security, please tell me whether it's possible to trace the requested informations to the computers address? Therefore enabling the chinese gov't to focus on dissidents, they haven't yet heard of themselves. Certainly enough they will do anything to gain as much control about the informations flowing into China as possible.

"Chinese dragon is on the loose!" IMHO the approach towards China is completely wrong and will not pay off. In the contrary: after millions of jobs in production were shifted, Germany alone will loose about 100. - 150.000 jobs in administration, over the next two years.

Certainly you can lead a dragon to water - but you can't stop him from drinking.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:FireTom> yes, everything can be traced to a computer's unique IP address, this is how they catch people illegally downloading mp3s. But because this refers to a computer if more than one person uses it, you can't tell specifically who accessed the information. there are probably ways of hiding the IP, but then there are probably also ways of unhiding it...

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks NOn, but sure, the KPoC wouldn't care much which individual has gathered illegal informations... reminds me a little of the movie "Brazil"... "Ministry of Information" was it?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:those go-getters over at google have been having some fun...

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/online/search/story/0,,1859785,00.html


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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