Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Good day, beautiful people smile



I hope this finds you all well and happy. It is lovely drop in , even for a short period of time.



I am seizing the opportunity to share with you a technique I have recently discovered and which i have found to be quite helpful for myself.



It's nothing "new" but I like the approach. It is very practical and it is a "tool" i am trying to master in order to communicate better with those around me, and also in order to know myself a bit better. It has for example helped me try to stop taking aggression personnaly and trying to listen to what the other mean beyond this initial violence. Also it has helped me figure out I was not always aware of MY needs but did expect otehrs to guess them (a bit of a problem here rolleyes wink )... Man have I got work to do wink



Non Violent Communication



If you have a second do check out the video of Marshal Rozenberg (10 min)



I would very much like your opinion about it.



You are in my heart



Shine on

Cassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks Cassandra for this link - bookmarked it.



The video is nice and I also believe, that discussing on the "need-level" helps to get some kind of progress - any other way leads to stagnation...



Thanks again for the reminder.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Inspirational, and great thinking fodder
Thankyou soo much for sharing.
Smiles
Drew

(Hey froggie... miss your hugs, I hope you're good, I hear your keeping busy busy.)


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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Glad you guys enjoyed it biggrin

love your signature Fire Tom wink - both aspects of it too !!!

hey Glass,hope u are well too my friend, it ahs been quite a while !

Shine on
Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Im trying some of the aspects but old habits are hard to break. So many of us are reward driven ourselves.

Postive language is an interesting thing, can be difficult not to sound patronising.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Interesting and very valid point Gnor !!!
this is something I have been trying to figure out

1. how "doable is it to apply things in every day situation ?
2. what about the people who refuse all dialogue... what can one do ?
3. how do you do that without sounding condescending or just plain SO "HEAVY" ?

and the latter is quite hard indeed. Sometimes conversations have to flow and until you master the techniques, thigns do not flow which is fine during a workshop and a lot harder in every day situation.

And so... as in every technique you take the best, leave the rest...

I find it always interesting taht the most "advanced " on a path of peace are the least "patronizing", but those like myself who are just learning the first words in a whole new language sometimes are so clumsy with it all...

and in a way it is sometimes more dangerous to hear of those tools, or otehrs like Vipassana meditation in my case and then understand the concepts intellectually. there is always the risk of thinking that we apply somethign just because we *understand* the concept and taht is when you sound the most patronizing I guess...

well... quite a lot of work to do wink

more feedback ?


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Loewan
Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool
Member Since: 11th Aug 2005
Total posts: 464
Posted:Its a good video. Its true how lanuages is inadequote in conveying messages and how emotions can get the better of us at times.

Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:If you are genuine about it I think it works well. With practice we can make it work and poi is a great format to practice as its so easy to be positive and explain why doing it this way is beneficial.

With the whole Positive parenting I found I thought I was a numpty at first but then you kinda settle into it and then the intereresting thing happens. People around you begin to adopt the language.

One of my pet peeves is people calling anyone else, especially children, idiots or stupid. After the first few times of hearing it I realise its a habit for them and they dont usually realise they are attacking the child not addressing the behaviour. The few I have braved commenting about it to have looked at me slack jawed and very sad with themselves that they speak like it. They inherited the speak from their parents. But all have made an effort to at least adress the behaviour and stop labelling the child.
I try to couch it in a way that its my problem with the wording rather than a comment on the parenting. Very few people I have met can take such personal comments such as being called an idiot without it hurting us inside.
But I can take being called a numpty when I do numptyish behaviour.

I think I need to print off some helper sheets and put them in the loo/car/ ceiling to remind me though.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted: Written by:

I find it always interesting taht the most "advanced " on a path of peace are the least "patronizing", but those like myself who are just learning the first words in a whole new language sometimes are so clumsy with it all...



It is like a new language and we have to be gentle on ourselves. An old language with new nuances and empathis. When we learn a new language we practice it endlessly. From my understanding of your and your energies, you are a pretty positive person to be around (even if you have this odd nutella issue) so all your tools are there waiting to be reformatted and arranged if you dont have them already.

As a parent this sort of communication would have been an invaluable tool to have from birth and would empower a child to deal so much better with life.
I lived with a dear friend who was learning her positive child speak as we lived together and it was pretty bloody hard. But she is also the most amazingly wonderful tolerant firm loving parent.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

Delete

Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:So very true what you say, Gnorr...

Just passing by with much love in my heart, a few months down the road of trying to apply NVC in my life and AMAZED at the results in the quality of relationship I have with myself and with the world.

So I bump this up in hopes that it will inspire a few more of you.

And adding a song written by Marshall Rosenberg I sometimes sing it to me when someone does something I judge to be so obnnoxious in front of me or to me...

SEE ME BEAUTIFUL

see me beautiful

look for the best in me

it's what i really am

all I want to be



it may take some time

it may be hard to find

but, see me beautiful



see me beautiful

each and every day

could you take a chance

could you find a way

to see me shining through

in everything I do

and see me beautiful


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Oh and while I am here and since I just do not come online much theses past years, allow me to wish much joy and give much love to all the incredibly beautiful people on HOP.



And to those I have actually met and know : Dom, Jannike, Malcolm, Flash, Charles, Pele, NYC, Molly, Bluecat, Ros, Bam Bam, Coleman, Drew, Orange, Hellen, John, PK, Cantus, Paul, Mark, Tom, Laura, Flyntiiiiie, Moonpixie, Kristie, Troy, Knoxious, Spitfire, Bill, and many more... You are right here, in my heart, some of you for already 7 years since I first registered, would you believe it. I love you dearly and sincerely.ubblove



Shine on

Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Delete

animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:I have his book about NVC. tis good and worthwhile reading.

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Yes it really is !
May I suggest another one which to me is easier to get the first grasp on NVC :

Being genuine : Stop being nice, start being real" by Thomas D'ansembourg

here is a libk to the amazon page http://www.amazon.com/Being-Genuine-Stop...4054&sr=8-1 (don't know how to make it "neater", sorry)

Much love
Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:M'selle la frog!

smile hug

i'm not sure i know any other way than NVC. though in fairness i have to admit i would probably fight for something if i beleived in it enough. nothing as yet though, which makes me think that i never will...


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:hmmm but NVC is not exactly like Non violence, it is about the way also that we mistakenly beleive for instance that our needs may have the shape of "I need YOU to..."

a need in this approach is seperate from the SOLUTIONS that you adopt to fulfill this need. And often the violence in communication is when we force (even quietly) others because we cannot see that they are just one solution to the fulfillment of our needs for love, harmony, justice, safety etc... or we forget to take their needs into consideration...

and much more that I am perhaps not eloquent enough to convey.

that being said here a gigantic tender hug for you my sweet friend. hope to see you again some day soon smile

Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Great to see you again miss Cass smile
Much love t'ya hug


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roarfire
roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside
Member Since: 8th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2676
Posted:Oh wow that is a beautiful song smile Thankyou for sharing Cassandra hug

.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Hello Roarfire hope you are well and happy smile
yes I agree the song is so simple but really pretty and moving. Sometimes really helps me when I am eek spank mad

UCOF kiss


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:It's amazing.

I use NVC, especially with Noah. It disarms him when he is on the edge of frustration and solutions can be found.
Mark does not. His uptight personality seems to not allow him to think in that manner, and I see how Noah reacts to it. I end up playing referee more often than not.

I can also see the difference in his friends, those who come from communicative homes and those that do not, but also those that come from aggressive language homes and those that do not.

I can say though, I think that it is something that takes two parties because there are people I've tried and they simply do not listen when they get something in their heads and their form of dealing is to escalate it.

Love you too princess, and it's wonderful to see you. You've been missed. hug


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:But the really hard thing I guess is that empathy is about tuning into the other person's needs without judgement and without having any "project" for them.

And that is so hard sometimes because we forget that the most important thing is to FIRST listen and be self-empathetic (EVEN if that is a word I just made up and the correct term is something else in english wink ).

only then can we truly go out and listen to the other.

if we skip that phase then we put a lid on our needs and emotions and sooner or later it will burst inwards or outwards like a pressure cooker !

do I make sense ?

::tons of snuggles to you my old friend darling Pele::


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Almost impossible.

ahoj,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Hi Cass hug

I think its a very tricky line to tow - especially in a relationship.

I agree, self-knowledge is an important first step, but I'm not sure that long-term happiness is as easy as aligning your own needs with those of another who has compatible needs. That person would really need to be self-knowing too...and needs change over time...situations get in the way... ubbrollsmile


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:You make perfect sense to me... requires a time of contemplation before entering a conversation, doesn't it?

I like the idea of NVC - IMO it has something to do with eternal patience... not that this would be one of my virtues... rolleyes


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Richeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee biggrin ubblove !!!!



Pyrolific... (Hi Pyrolofic biggrin ... no wait... it's ... YOU ??? OMG... don't go on changing names it confuses my brain. I miss you man... coming to Melburp end of the year hopefully, perhaps catch u there ubblove)



So... Pyrolific, well I see what you mean. To me (and to NVC, not like I invented the tool to curve bananas as we say in French) so.... to me, we ALL have the same needs

basic ones : shelter, food, safety

and emotional one : sense, sharing, harmony, love, recognition etc...



For each person though this or that need may be more "alive" at a certain time in their lives / day.



What makes relationships and interactions hard is that with a similar need, you and I may adopt drastically different STRATEGIES, so different in fact that we do not even recognize that we share the same need.



Example : I have a need for connection with you and so I start chatting with you at some partty. You have a need for connection too but frankly you are not safe that I am a genuine and caring person so you kinda play aloof with me. If somehow we do not connect and communication on that deeper level, we may never know.



This to me is the only way I find to try and developp empathy towards those who have harmed me badly and/or harmed society/humanity. By "seeing them beautiful" as havign the same needs as I though they may have unacceptable strategies which justify use of force at times but do not prevent empathy towards them.



On the other hand, you may find yourself having similar strategies and mistakenly understanding that you have the same needs : we may be cold to eachother but I may have a need for independance while you have a need for connection. Thus again the risk of misunderstandings and thus, as FireTom says the utmost importance of looking within before we communicate.



there are greater chances that you'll listen to me if I am clear as to what my needs are and trying to listen to yours without havign already decided what I diagnose that they are.



and damnit, patience is totally not my middle name either, but I enjoy the ride of getting to be. I even have this mental card in my mental pocket that says "SHUT UP" so I remember to keep quiet and look within before I speak... does not always work though umm: rolleyes



thoughts ? reactions ? goat cheese ? wink :


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:I think its a lovely philosophy - and you explain it so clearly!

we're almost always in Melberp at the end of hte year!! smile

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Dragon_Drafin
member

Member Since: 13th Mar 2008
Total posts: 51
Posted:Just judging from the posts around the topic I can't wait to get home and check out the link. So I reserve an edit to make a deeper comment.

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Josh, I CANNOT WAIT !!! to see you guys again it would be grand ! ubblove

Dragon Drafin, looking forward to your input smile


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Delete

Dragon_Drafin
member

Member Since: 13th Mar 2008
Total posts: 51
Posted:My apologies Cassandra I have not looked at the link yet. I've been way too busy the past few nights but I will get to it this weekend.

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