Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > same direction 2-1 TTN weave

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jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
so hang with me here. this trick is not nearly as complex as the name. start by doing a 3 beat weave. now when your poi are on the right side of your body, spin your left poi twice as fast as the right one then lead out with the left arm as though it were the 5 beat. repeat but reverse the words left and right. maybe it's just a 2-1 weave... but the location of the arms reminded me way too much of a thread the needle weave. good luck!!!

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


VampyricAcidSILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom


Posted:
surely...correct me if im wrong...you need to be doing a TTN before you can do a TTN weave?

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jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
no. but it is easiest to get into it that way. this thread is about the same direction thread the needle however

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


VampyricAcidSILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom


Posted:
same direction TTN is a physical impossibility, unless you;re like rayman and have floaty hands instead of arms

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TheBovrilMonkeySILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England


Posted:
Or cross the poi onto t'other side of your body, to unwrap them similar to a 5 beat weave.

Interesting idea Jaero, I'll have a play with this next time I pick up some poi.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
at last!



someone else properly playing with speed variations biggrin



nice one jaero hug



this sounds like something different to me - could you describe the crossover bit in a little more detail (i.e. hand positions etc.) please.



cheers,





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
 Written by: Lemsip_


same direction TTN is a physical impossibility, unless you;re like rayman and have floaty hands instead of arms


Well, a continuous same direction TTN is physically impossible, but you can do 3/4 of the move and then turn and repeat wink

"Moo," said the happy cow.


VampyricAcidSILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom


Posted:
im gonna need a video me thinks, cant visualise this one frown

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jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
alright... I'm really bad at describing tricks, but I'll try my hardest. it IS a speed variation trick. I'm only going to describe the right side and if you'd like to figure out the left side, it's the same... but not. out of the 3 beat weave, when you cross your left hand over you have to speed up the left poi a little bit and hold your arm out farther than your right arm. you slow your right poi down and move your right hand in a circle around your left wrist. when your right hand can go no further without tieing (?) your arms in a big stupid knot, you lead to your left side with your left hand. so it's the outer poi (farther away from your body) that's moving twice the speed of your inner poi. I wish I had a way to put videos online for you all. this trick is not very complex once you get the idea. and throwing in speed variations in a weave tends to make non poiers poop themselves. always carry a towel.

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
 Written by: spiralx


 Written by: Lemsip_


same direction TTN is a physical impossibility, unless you;re like rayman and have floaty hands instead of arms


Well, a continuous same direction TTN is physically impossible, but you can do 3/4 of the move and then turn and repeat wink

a continuous same direction TTN is not physically impossible either. though it is kinda ugly. put your hands close together and spin them in the same direction with both poi on the same side of the circle (hence the ugliness) when both poi are to the right, left hand should be in front. when both poi are to the left, right hand in front. you must be quick to not tangle. but even though, I haven't figured out how to make this trick look good yet.

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
thanks for the description jaero, i get ya now - that's a really nice move smile



i like how you've used the crossover degrees (the 5bt wrist wrap bit) to make the whole thing fit together nicely.





this is an example of what i've been calling 'positional x:y' - you define a hand position in a pattern, then whenever a hand is in that position, the ratio of poi speeds changes to x:y (rather than the usual 1:1).



x:y would be 2:1 in the move you describe above, although i personally prefer 3:2 for it (which makes the speed change less harsh but also less noticeable) smile



when using a positional x:y ratio of 2:1 or higher (5:2, 3:1), i begin to extend the arm of the slower poi.



at high speed ratios, the necessary speeding up and slowing down a poi by such a large amount, within such a short space of time (to look tight the speed change should happen within half of one of the slower poi's beats), can make the pattern look very uncontrolled and messy.

an arm extension extends the period (time taken) for the slower poi to complete a beat, giving you more time to vary the speed of the other poi.





talking generally about speed variation between poi, you can define moves that have a polyrhythms/speed change element to them using the 'positional x:y' method, the 'planar x:y' method or the 'absolute x:y' method.



patterns tend fall into one of those three systems and more often than not, it is much harder (if not impossible) to describe them using one of the other two methods.





one day i should get around to writing the theory part of my polyrhythm poi workshop up as a thread... ubbidea





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Hey jaero , I get you too. This is similar to the move I posted in [Old link] . Though using the 5 beat wrist wrap is new to me and well recieved smile

The 2:1 can be moved to anywhere within the 3 beat weave move, not just when it come back to it's own side.

Cole: I like the way you use extensions, I do that some times but not quite in this poly rythmic context. Thanks cool

Assuming 2:1, would planar involve moving between different planes in 2 circles while the other does 1 circle (ie not repeating twice in the same position)?

What's absolute then? Always a certain ratio to each other but not interweaving?

The difficulty in spotting some speed changes is something I've considered... a good reason to get colour changing aerotechs? biggrin

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
hey james hug

just quickly (cos i have to go and meet someone in about 5 minutes!)...

positional x:y refers to a hand/poi/centre of spin position - so, like you said above, the x:y part of a variable speed weave can be applied to any of the hand positions through the three beat (or five beat) weave base pattern.

planar x:y refers to the speed variation occurring in a specified plane e.g. my polyrhythm butterfly waistwrap is a 'planar 2:1 bf ww' where the higher speed plane is the rear wall plane.

absolute x:y is what it says - poi speed ratio is constantly at x:y. an absolute nightmare to spin but equates to pure polyrhythm poi.


going on from that, you can also split planes into sections where the speed variation applies, which is a bit like mixing planar and positional x:y - but that's a discussion for way later on... smile


and just to make nyc happy: polyrhythm spinning is yet another area of poi where a traditional beat count is essentially useless biggrin


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
poi = algebra?
hmmm... *slight confusion*
traditional beat counts are useless

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


faith enfireBRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA


Posted:
i want more pics on poiedia ;P

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
jaero - worry not sir smile



the algebra likeness of those categories only comes from the fact that there are x's and y's mentioned - all it does is provide a way of describing these moves more concisely.



you yourself said the other day that you were getting to the point where you can't describe your moves any more.



i don't like it when that happens to me so i tend to find ways to define and explain what the poi are doing.



i've never mentioned it on hop before because i seemed to be the only person working on it and i didn't think anyone would be interested (especially after giving a good few workshops in this stuff last summer and mainly getting lots of blank stares and open mouths).



i will write up this stuff more completely in a new thread though so as not to completely derail your discussion here smile



anyone know how easy flash animations are to produce...?





the move in your original post can be described as a 5bt weave with positional 2:1 on the following poi (immediately after the crossover).



shrug





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
well... only when I got on the internet did I ever have to start describing my tricks. typically, I just demonstrate. but no worries, in 2 weeks, I'm back off to the road. no more internet for 6 months after that. but I'll keep the trigonomopoi in mind. maybe someday, I'll start to understand. but until then, I look forward to seeing your thread on x:y coleman. but the only problem I can find with calling it the 5bt weave with positional 2:1 on the following poi is that it only does 4 beats on either side... which I just realized.

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
cool - good luck out on the road hug



i'll get that thread written up in the next couple of weeks smile



but sorry, ihave to ask because i'm confused about your move now...



which poi does four beats...?



and how many does the other one do, 8 or 2...?





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
I'm confused about it now too
both combined add up to 4 beats on either side
it's 2 and 2....
what the hell?
it's like removing a beat from the middle of the 5 beat on either side or adding one to the 3 beat...
but because of the speed change up, you'd switch the leading poi half way through on either side. oh, I think I see why now... in the first beat of this maneuver, the poi are in split time still.... and then begins the 2:1 spin... maybe...

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


faith enfireBRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA


Posted:
any one got a video of this move?

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed


jaeroSILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA


Posted:
I wish... someone should mail me a video camera so I can put one up.

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.


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