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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:Upwardly gothic

Its what we have been saying for years although i would tend to agree with the statemnt that we are more class less than middle class....

the thing is though do you think anyone will actually listen? I get more than fed up with being labeled as the drop outs who amount to nothing as is my Son. and the shock on peoples faces they find out i used to alot of work with social services!!!

Thanks Pen for showing me this hug hug


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:Thing is, what issues do they have exactly? they're normal people, are their issues any different to everyone else's?

Do all goths think they are any different to anyone else? Most people think they are different and better than everyone else.

I never said I agreed with the odds that goths are likely to grow up to be any better than anyone else, because they are normal people.

I was only talking about the line that you said about them all looking silly.

Maybe I read into that wrong, I don't know


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted: Written by: GothFrogette


perhaps that Goth does dress like that so they don't fit in with how they are supposed to look.... i.e. in the way of the fashions and how the media and marketiers say they should.



Fashions? Last I heard the Goths had their own marketing and fashions themselves. They dress the way they do to fit in just as much as anyone else. Everyone wants to fit with their sub-culture, be it Chavs, Goths, Townies, Indies or anything else.

What is the semantic difference, if any, between Goth and Emo? I get slightly confused at the somewhat random way in which certain things get labelled as one or the other. Yeah. Incoherency over. biggrin


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:Emo was originally a genre of music, derived from hardcore, and was about wrestling the inner demons of defeat, loveloss and heartache. Goth was another sub-genre of post-punk, which was inspired by horror.
All of these were originally about the music... these days, what is anything about?


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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted: Written by: Hanz


Thing is, what issues do they have exactly? they're normal people, are their issues any different to everyone else's?




That's my point exactly, they're not differant, but for some reason alot of them seem to think they have differant and/or more problems than anyone else... in my experiance.

 Written by: Hanz


I was only talking about the line that you said about them all looking silly.

Maybe I read into that wrong, I don't know



I think they look silly anyways, and i've been walking with people i work with at lunch who've said they look silly. You might not, but you might think i look silly, they might think i look silly, i might think you look silly... whatever. Doesn't mean i think you're any more or less employable or clever or whatever.


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 5125
Posted:from my own experience, goths tend to be regular people, minus the color.

from my experience, emo's are the only ones who are really out for attention.

my two cents hug


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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ezz
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

ezz

moo..
Location: melbourne, australia

Total posts: 1899
Posted:I don't really think this article is about the fact that goths think they are different more that parents, employers, other authority folk and anyone that may not be as open minded as alot of people I see here, think that goths are no hopers and will amount to nothing, when its exactly how you said foxindocs (and also said in the article)they are no different to anyone else. Just like anyone else or any other 'scene' there are some really lovely people and there are some real idiots too.



eek I don't like saying what I think it never comes out right so I hope that made sense..


hug me!

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
yeah i think that was alot of my problem, i just wasn't articulating what i wanted to get accross properly, i'm still not sure it made any sence...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Ry
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Ry

Gromit's Humble Squire
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 4496
Posted: Written by: Tao Star



i think it's more of a teenage angst thing than a goth thing. chav teenagers take it out by hitting stuff, goths do it by wearing black.





I'd agree with Marf. Though as a footnote, I think within goth (or any) culture there's probably a bit of a hierarchy as well, acknowledged or not. (read: baby bats vs adult bats smile)



To each their own I guess. shrug?



Further footnote, I read the upwardly gothic article, and like what this person said:



'I certainly would prefer a child of mine to be a goth than some tracksuited-baseball-cap-wearing gobby hoody. I know which one would concern me more! I would certainly hold out more hope of a goth actually knuckling down and getting on in life.

Mary, London


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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
s'just clothes...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:not just though, it is the way they are treated by other people, and that can change a person's mentality, so yes, it starts with clothes, but a lot can be changed by the way they are treated by others

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:nah i think other way round... with teenagers more so than adults.

kids get picked on, or pick on other kids, or play too many computer games, or listen to this or that type of music... and they wanna fit in someplace so they go, hey those guys over there all dressed in black (just keeping with the theme) get picked on too and they listen to the same music as me (or whatever) i'd better dress in black too so they like me... and then they get the label and then people start treating them the same way they'd treat other people dressed in black... cyclical i guess too a degree...

also... i'm saying all this as someone who was a teenager not so long ago and wanted to fit in, but who's turned into a grown up over the last couple years and realised that it was a pointless waste of time trying to fit in and be just like people i was sorta like instead of just being me who happend to be sorta like my friends who were all them but sorta like eachother (even if they were all trying to be eachother too)

did that make sence? i'll say it a differant way just in case...

i'm saying this as someone who untill a couple years ago, just wanted to be like everyone else, i tried getting in with the "cool" "normal" kids that didn't work so i was a "goth" for a while, then i met some people that listened to metal so i was still a bit "goth" then i moved more towards being a "punk" then i left highschool and i went to work in an office and spent all my money on work clothes so i started just wearing the same tops i wore during the week on the weekends but with jeans instead of black pants or skirts...

and eventually i got over dressing up funny for shows cuz i didn't have silly clothes anymore, and all of a sudden i was at a party and my friend says to me and my other friend (us just both wearing jeans and whatever clean tops we could find) "i love how you two hang out all the same places and listen to the same stuff that we always have, but you just dress how you want to with nothing to prove" and i realised i'd grown up...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:am i making any sence yet? i think i'm just in a mood for saying whats on my mind and stuff the consequences... So i really do appologise if i've seriously offended anyone... or just plain confused them...



If i just sound like a complete twit i'll just have to deal with that myself won't i?


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:going on that then, does that mean I've always been grown up? I don't wear what is normal or 'cool' I wear what I feel like wearing, so one day might be a black shirt with a black fishnet shirt the next day it might be light blue jeans with a pretty pink top, it doesnt all look the same or fit into the right catagory. I don't have anything to prove, I don't see the point in keeping up to date, costs money.

And besides, I was talking about teenagers anyway.


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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
Maybe you have always been grown up, and good for you, i wish i'd always had that confidence.

Then again, maybe you just never had any friends tongue


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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TheGreatSaint
GOLD Member since Oct 2005

TheGreatSaint

Member
Location: , Canada

Total posts: 48
Posted:I'm not Goth, so this pro-Goth statement is coming from an "outsider" if you will.

Society sees darkness and black as void and emptiness.

Physics states that black has every spectrum of color. Think about this, 90% of the universe is black, hint: blackness = God x 90%

I perceive people who are drawn to blackness as higher spiritually. Not everybody will understand this, but those of you who do will see this simple truth. This perception is the opposite of what society would have us believe. Perhaps this is a level of spiritual enlightening and people are just jealous.

However, I would caution all Goths not to get trapped at this level. Seek to further yourself, even if it is conforming to societies demands just a little. You are not changing who you are, just what others perceive you to be.


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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
err... sure...

you know, i used to get emails from some freak who talked like that, who apparently knew who i was and went to the same school as me, but i had no idea who he was...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:FoxInDocs: I wouldnt say Im confident, just the way I was brought up, looks didnt matter, wish I had confidence, but I dress in what I want, confidence or not. And yes, I had friends, but through Primary School there was only a tight group of us, and had problems with friends through SC, but I still had friends... just.

TGS: I thought black was something to do with the absense of light?


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TheGreatSaint
GOLD Member since Oct 2005

TheGreatSaint

Member
Location: , Canada

Total posts: 48
Posted: Written by: FoxInDocs

i used to get emails from some freak who talked like that





Funny you comparing me to a phreak, I'll take it as a compliment.



chev is just not cool



FoxInDocs is phat!

peace

EDITED_BY: TheGreatSaint (1143099332)


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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:Post deleted by Hanz

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TheGreatSaint
GOLD Member since Oct 2005

TheGreatSaint

Member
Location: , Canada

Total posts: 48
Posted:I tend to do that to people. Try not to hurt yourself.

ubbloco

actually I was talking to FoxInDocs, not u Hanz, I'll edit for clarity.

EDITED_BY: TheGreatSaint (1143099643)


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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:i don't know what anyones talking about in here now... but i was joking about the no friends thing hanz, hence the tongue

"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted: Written by: ezz


I don't really think this article is about the fact that goths think they are different more that parents, employers, other authority folk and anyone that may not be as open minded as alot of people I see here, think that goths are no hopers and will amount to nothing, when its exactly how you said foxindocs (and also said in the article)they are no different to anyone else. Just like anyone else or any other 'scene' there are some really lovely people and there are some real idiots too.

eek I don't like saying what I think it never comes out right so I hope that made sense..



Thanks for keeping on topic as thats exactly what the whole point to the artical was.
its basical TRYING to stop people from having a preconception of what a person is and can achieve by the way they dress. which as you can see by several posts in this thread it happens alot.
From working with kids (ages from 5 -18) and personaly experiance it is the children who do not fit in that get picked on more and more. The alternative music tends to cater for this and the feelings so its easy to relate to the lyrics with in them. don't get me wrong i'm not generalising by saying this is the case all of the time.

on a little side note
i do not fit into any stereo type, sure i'm called Gothfrogette but i'm not a goth. i'm not anything as i do not see why i should be out into a catagory to define myself. dress wise i wear what i like and i like what i wear. not trying to make a statemnt to anyone as i don't care what they think.


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:FoxInDocs, I know... but it kinda got me thinking... was gonna joke something back to you and then got VERY sidetracked

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted:But Froggy, you DO fit into a category! Sexy as hell category, ohhhh yeah!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:"i'm not anything as i do not see why i should be out into a catagory to define myself"

Exactly. People shouldn't be pigeon holed. smile


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:unfortunately...as i said before...i reackon that most pigeon holing is done by people to themselves. not all, but lots.

i'm definately guilty of this one, and i've learnt not to cause it causes all srots of problems, when people can't look past the label you gave yourself.

i was guilty of this as a goth and realised that everyone thought i was a misery & suicidal when all i really wanted to do was dress up and have fun....nowadays i goth up on a regular basis, and i also dress lke a hippy and a metaler, and...welll, anything except a grown up really! ha ha, the only box i'm still scared of is the adult one smile.

the point is, i stopped trying to give out a signal and just acted like myself and now people see me as just me! i think that signal-giving-out is a huge part of what being a teenager is all about, trying to figure out who you are and everything...and i don't think goths are at all unique in this

on the other hand, i used to despise chavs beause it seemed like they just made no effort - don't they want to look pretty? the reson goths think they're being more individual is because to be a chav involves buying the newest thing from new look or whatever, to be a goth involves trawling through charity shops/markets & stuff, putting together some really cool stuff and CREATING an outfit. Ok, not true for all goths...but then the people who just go down to camden are just chavs in black imo!


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Pen Draven


Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 1363
Posted:I dunno,, now to me what i got out of the whole article was just a message to parents not to panic if they're kids started doing the wearing goth clothes thing,, but it seems to have spiraled off into a completely different direction...

<shrugs>


Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:that tends to happen here! i think it's an interesting discuassion....

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:hehe, spiralling off is a part of HoP.

Labels, haha, only one I placed on myself as "tomboy" but I wasn't, and then started being "indi" for individual as I didnt fit anywhere.

I may have too agree with Pen about the article being about telling parents not to worry.

Just asked mum if she would prefer (if I was a guy) a goth, or one of those people who wear their pants halfway to their knees, she said "I'd have to accept you as whatever you are, but I would prefer a goth"


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:People who are hypercritical of Goths seem to find something threatening about the style. Those of us not willing to look at a magazine and say oh, I want to starve myself and dress just like her. If its unfamiliar it scares them and then there is this hostility toward it that arises. Sometimes, I believe that it is jealousy due to the ability to shrug at acceptable and mainstream. There is some bravery in that
It really should be about being comfortable. I enjoy the artistry of the make up, the drama of the clothes, the slimming affect of the black. Other people who cant seem to belong with general society find solace in belonging here. I sort of feel like the movement itself is dead, but I dont hang out with others because it seems like they all by their clothes at certain stores and really have little style or opinions of their own. I buy my clothes wherever, find a few key pieces at the goth stores, but otherwise I go to department stores and create my own style. I dont just wear black, I fit well enough into the corporate world. I dont mope. I swear a lot. Dont do drugs, do smoke, love a good gin and tonic. I think goth is just something that you are deep down inside. You cant really stop being Goth, but learn to adapt it into society. It is childish to say that they should accept me for me and I dont have to do anything. Why should they do all the work? People who say I used to be Goth, I believe never really were, or that they are trying to deny who they are. I dont know if I am Goth enough, like being gay enough. I dont go around saying look at me in my black clothes. Nowadays, I dont wear that much black. I identify with the sentiment, the romance, but not with the culture that tries as hard as the Goth one does nowadays. Mostly, it is kids trying to scare mom and dad who should not being wearing bondage pants or straight jackets. Thats just poser stuff from kids who complain about how life is so hard as they go shopping with money that their parents gave them.


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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