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Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Doubles Contact: Cross-Base-Flyer-Thingamybobs

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:I was wondering who else has been exploring this doubles contact idea.

I first found Kyle brushing the edges of it a couple of months ago, but just spent an excellent 2 hours at Rainbow Serpent with one of 'the french guys' where that rather talented individual worked out about 5 new really seriously cool variations.

the principle is to only hold onto one staff - hands about a shoulder left apart on the staff thus forming a triangle - and use this to kindof both paddle, roll, and control the other staff using the extra balance and pivot points of arms/hands/1st staff.

Jay (sp?) taught me a really easy entry and some basic variations - there seems to be some pretty cool possibilities- Jay was dancing round like a monkey cos he had worked out how to weave double staffs together - only holding onto one staff. kindof hard to explain without a video i know.

does this ring any bells to what others are working on? i havent really been staffing much since october - but now am completely inspired again!!!!

E ubbrollsmile



*Edit - thread title changed to something perhaps a better description.

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1139359016)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:dude my visualisation engine isnt working.......

can you explain a little more?

Is it a little like devil stick propellors, but alternating the held stick, whilst weaving?

If so, then ive played a little, but i find myself dropping more than i do pulling it off ubblol

stick on stick illudes me.......... need to stop all this stick on body milarky i love sooo much and work on it i think smile


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:now ive read that again it is an appalling explanation. Ill get it sorted in my head over UberOz this weekend then update.
it does kindof use some devil stick ideas - but also expands many contact staff priciples about the body to the staff you are holding - ie treating it as an extra limb. far too tired to think more and have to drive 9 hrs tomorow so off to bed for me.
night wave


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:strugz i can explain it in front of you at some point, if you like... but its well hard to visualise....

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Nice one Rob - when you get back over to the cold side of the world, that would be splendid smile

Although your coming to any of this years conventions frown

that really is quite pants rolleyes

I guess ill just have to come and find you instead biggrin


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:apart from notts, and play... or don't they count..?

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I seen Kyle doing some stuff like you describe so know there's defo loads there but I defo can't do it. shrug

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Play?

whats that confused

wink


Sweeeet smile


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:i'd like some photos, preferably with bikinis.
kyle and jay are unreal twirlers - multidisciplinary madness!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:her's the shape, no photos of the conntact yet...


Non-Https Image Link


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Lavatwilight
Lavatwilight

old hand
Location: Wellington somerset, UK
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 834
Posted:I need more sticks!!!

Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Ahh!

Read it again Dentrassi, whilst using my brain this time and i totally get what you mean - there are a bucket load of things to be done with this type of contact im sure!

The triangle formation your talking about is formed with 2 arms and a stick........... the "other" stick is the one manipulated..... definatley lots to play with - T&B does this sorta thing alot smile

As for the picture Rob - im sure he said doubles contact........ wink


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:i was just taking the word triangles at face value. as for the triangles variations with two, me n jay n kyle had an awesome session recently... and there will be more smile

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Olive
Olive

enthusiast
Location: Paris 19e
Member Since: 9th Jun 2004
Total posts: 286
Posted:like this shape too ubblove ubbloco

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:yeah perhaps triangle theory is a misleading name - it does mainly refer to the two arms and a stick - using that as an base for paddling 1 (or 2 if your kyle wink) extra staffs around.

i tend to work things out from the engineering angle, so have been thinking on the drive home a fair bit about how to break it down to some base hold positions and transitions - im not claiming to be inventing much - just trying to get a bit of a framework i work out how to approach it.

anyways hopefully will get time to play around tonight.
cheerio,
E ubbrollsmile


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:*Monkeys round on framework*

Thanks Dentrassi hug


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Kyle McLean
Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 364
Posted:Hey Ed hug

I just went and had a very productive play with this stuff. Might be a bit too silly to propose as a name, but I think of these as extra limb moves. Quite a large can of worms. Triangles don't really go far enough to describe these moves as you can make quite a few shapes.



So, wanting to come at it from a bit of an analytical approach eh? umm

I've been meaning to write this down for a while so thanks for the reminder. For positions here's four variables I ended up using as a starting point...



For the pupose of the following I've broken a staff down into 5 points, 3 being around the centre, 1 & 5 the left and right ends, 2&4 the left and right 3/4 points. 0 means absent. This will make more sense soon.

Base stick and flyer stick mean just that.



Basic Variables of Extra Limbage:

1) position of each hand on base staff-

thumb in/ thumb out. Also pos of arms effects which contact moves are available.



2) placement of each hand on base staff

pos 1-5 or 0



3) postion of base staff

front, above head, btb, bth, btl



4) position of flying staff 1-5 (also 0 for a throw or contact)

can be inside or outside of your negitive space



These combine to make more moves than u can poke ur stick at biggrin

the flyer stick can be rolled on the base stick and or your body and thrown. (very very small throws can be handy when u need to correct placment.).

excl please be sure to take good care of your wrists.


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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yoni
yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath
Member Since: 4th Jun 2005
Total posts: 3099
Posted:for some reason i dont seem any less confused after that post, so i'll just say hear hear to whover has said something about a video being needed

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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Kyle McLean
Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 364
Posted:Hey Yoni,
my last post was in response to Dentrassi's searching for the engineering angle and not really meant as a primer to these moves. Have you started playing with contact crosses? That's the basis for getting in to these. smile


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:thanx kyle. that helps immensly smile

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:Ok - what Kyle wrote above gives a great idea of directions to explore but to explain this completely basically to a beginner.



Starting with 2 staff one shall be the Base staff, which for now hold with both hands at slightly wider that shoulder width. The other Flyer staff as Kyle calls it, will be balanced by the Base staff and your body.



From here theres 2 main starting positions Ive started to use:

1) Shoulder Cross Stall (SCS) hold Base staff at chest height slightly off center to the right. Flyer staff is resting perpedicular on the grip of the base staff and your right shoulder - thus making a flat cross

2) Waist Cross Stall (WCS) - hold Base staff at waist-hippish height slightly off center to the right. Flyer staff is resting on the grip of the base staff and gripped under your right armpit. If the flyer is balanced forward of the base staff, you can also use this leverage into the armpit.



Ok now from both these, try to use the Base staff and your body, to flick the flyer staff around your neck and shoulders in any of the various shoulder-neck-shoulder, halo, shoulder-neckfront-shoulder contact moves.



Explaining further, from SCS, with cross on your right side, paddle the flyer staff over behind your head in a Halo, (twisting body with Halo is useful but not essential) and catch in a SCS on your left side.



Then try with a right WCS halo roll left WCS. Use the Base to flick with Flyer over your shoulder from the front, then twist left to halo BTH, then let it roll down the left shoulder and lock under left armpit, balanced by the Base, in left side WCS.



Now try these with a shoulder-neckfront-shoulder this is a bit tricker - but its immensely satifying smile



Other things to explore from WCS see if you can enter this moves from the back of the shoulder.



Another nice variation is to go from SCS to WCS start Right SCS, Label the far end of the flyer as point 1. Flick the flyer AC horizontal (twist your body and use shoulders to start it off), and follow the Base to the flyer so its always in a cross. As Point 1 of the flyer rotates around, your arms should naturally be part cross so that the base continues to balance the flyer without it falling off. As the point 1 passes your chest and rotates out. Your arms should uncross naturally, and end up in Left side WCS, with Point 1 on the flyer away from you again.



Now, start trying some of the contact transitions with the base and flyer, and changing from WCS to SCS to give some variety.



Also play around with either guiding the flyer with the base in a cross for the entire move, or using a snappier flick with the base to propell the flyer around and not to use the base at all to guide the flyer.



If youve got this idea then go back to Kyles post, and starting looking at some of the variations of grip and hand position on the base, and other ideas.



I've explained the aspect which is probably the easiest; the Steve family of variations looks mightily impressive but will post later.



E ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1139359652)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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yoni
yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath
Member Since: 4th Jun 2005
Total posts: 3099
Posted:ok cool that makes evrything much clearer, sounds like damn good fun to play with

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:hmmm just noticed theres a few extra things you need to do to nail some of the moves i mentioned. dont have time to edit now though - but you should be able to figure most of them out.
Eubbrollsmile


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Yeah this is fun stuff. Makes my head hurt like glowsticking mindgames. biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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jc_firetricks
jc_firetricks

enthusiast
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 5th Dec 2005
Total posts: 205
Posted:your all crazier than coconuts !!!

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:ok - heres some basic steve based ideas.



you can either start this on right SCS - also my preference is to hold base staff in both hands, and spin around doing flat SNShalos with the flyer until i feel its positioned correctly.

so, from either method, quarter-steve the flyer down the right arm - with the center mark offset to the outside of your arm. This is still holding onto the base with both hands. You will have to raise the right end of your base staff to about head height and spin AC a bit to help the quartersteve around as usual. *only raise the right end so the staff will be 30-45 deg ish ..

As the flyer gets to the right wrist, paddle your right wrist (& thus also right end of staff) back a bit, and if the staff is on the previously mentions angle, your wrist should be bent to the left. The flyer should roll around the pinkie side of your right hand, around and roll onto the top of your base staff.

if your staff is still at that angle, it will start rolling down your left side while still rotating AC.



This is the basic pricinple of this family. From here, you can

- do the opposite thing on the left side, quarter steve it down, and start at the beginning (can do somewhat dodgily 1/3 times)

- do the opposite thing in the left side, but flick it back onto the staff to roll down to right side and repeat continuously (this was the first one i saw kyle working on a couple of months back - its still my favourite - but bloody hard! my record is 3 full spins round both my wrists)

- roll up to your left wrist, but then letting it roll back down to your right to do the same thing in a slightly easier continuous loop.



A really important tip for this concept is to imagine your paddling a kayak in reverse with the base. this action give the angle for the roll, and the backwards motion to help flick around the wrist.



seeing someone nail this is beautiful ubbrollsmile

once again - when you play around and being to understand this - go back to kyles post about variations and play around with it a bit



cheerio!

E ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1139532908)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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yoni
yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath
Member Since: 4th Jun 2005
Total posts: 3099
Posted:was playing with allot last night, its pretty sewwt ass stuff. pretty damned hard too.
meditate


UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:Think this is pretty much what I call staff on staff contact but coming at it for a slightly different angle.



There's so much potenial for new moves down this avenue it's hard to know where to start, personally I find knowing abit of devil sticks and adapting it to staff works nicely.



If your still confused to what it is think there abit of me doing it in durb's falmouth 3 vid somewhere in the tim section smile (it's abit messy but I hadn't been doing it long when that was shot so maybe you'll let me off)



oh yeah it's on stugz's website http://www.soton-firespinning.co.uk/

EDITED_BY: T&B (1139849718)


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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