Forums > Social Chat > Dooing away with currency??
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enthusiast
200 posts
Location: Harare, Zimbabwe, United Kingdom
enthusiast
200 posts
Location: Harare, Zimbabwe, United Kingdom
Posted:
Just a thought...
In Zimbabwe a few years ago, a group of individuals with different skills (e.g. plumbers, carpenters, accountants, zooligists, you get the idea) all got together and created what I think they called the 'let system'.
The way this worked, I think, was that everyone was allocated x number of lets at the beginning, or upon joining. Then, if Joe the mechanic needed his teeth removed, for example, he would go to Henry the dentist, who would pull Joe's teeth out, in return for which Joe would transfer a given number of lets to Henry, and so on and so on. Basically the lets replaced currency for the group of individuals involved but in a way in which the whole issue of economics, taxes, inflation, etc, were all circumvented.
I don't really know where I'm leading with this, its just a ramble of thought, but would this work in a long-term situation over a wide area, or would the lets simply become money?? Is it feasible, could it replace the 9 to 5 grind, why are carrots more orange than oranges?
Blah blah blah...
Just a thought...
In Zimbabwe a few years ago, a group of individuals with different skills (e.g. plumbers, carpenters, accountants, zooligists, you get the idea) all got together and created what I think they called the 'let system'.
The way this worked, I think, was that everyone was allocated x number of lets at the beginning, or upon joining. Then, if Joe the mechanic needed his teeth removed, for example, he would go to Henry the dentist, who would pull Joe's teeth out, in return for which Joe would transfer a given number of lets to Henry, and so on and so on. Basically the lets replaced currency for the group of individuals involved but in a way in which the whole issue of economics, taxes, inflation, etc, were all circumvented.
I don't really know where I'm leading with this, its just a ramble of thought, but would this work in a long-term situation over a wide area, or would the lets simply become money?? Is it feasible, could it replace the 9 to 5 grind, why are carrots more orange than oranges?
Blah blah blah...
Don't worry, be happy...
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Interesting, the only way I could forsee a problem is how "lets" were recorded. The let system is the same as dollars and pounds. My dollars represent a certain amount of gold, basically a worthless piece of paper with a number printed on it is used instead of gold coins and what not. These lets may not be represented but they could very easily represent something very similer. Then the human ideals would enter the picture, man is greedy, and people would want to collect all the "lets" that they could.
I guess that is just a long way of saying lets are currency just not backed with gold.
Interesting, the only way I could forsee a problem is how "lets" were recorded. The let system is the same as dollars and pounds. My dollars represent a certain amount of gold, basically a worthless piece of paper with a number printed on it is used instead of gold coins and what not. These lets may not be represented but they could very easily represent something very similer. Then the human ideals would enter the picture, man is greedy, and people would want to collect all the "lets" that they could.
I guess that is just a long way of saying lets are currency just not backed with gold.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
Posted:
Yeah! I've heard of that.. an artist friend of mine years ago as involved.. it worked quite well I think.. but I lost contact with her - so I don't know if she's still doing it.
Many years ago money replaced various items such as sea shells, preciuos stones, bits of rocks with carvings on them - this was the origenal trading items - much as Lets'...
I think Let's is a good system for smaller communities.. when I start my 'commune' I reckon this would be a good thing..
Paper currency is supposed to be representing gold reserves - but I heard somewhere (could be wrong) that if I took £20 up to the Bank of England they are obliged to give me £20 worth of gold.. I was also told (again could be wrong) that there is not enough gold reserves in the UK to cover all the currency that has been printed - does that mean my £20 is worthless??
[ 29. November 2002, 02:07: Message edited by: MisStix ]
Yeah! I've heard of that.. an artist friend of mine years ago as involved.. it worked quite well I think.. but I lost contact with her - so I don't know if she's still doing it.
Many years ago money replaced various items such as sea shells, preciuos stones, bits of rocks with carvings on them - this was the origenal trading items - much as Lets'...
I think Let's is a good system for smaller communities.. when I start my 'commune' I reckon this would be a good thing..
Paper currency is supposed to be representing gold reserves - but I heard somewhere (could be wrong) that if I took £20 up to the Bank of England they are obliged to give me £20 worth of gold.. I was also told (again could be wrong) that there is not enough gold reserves in the UK to cover all the currency that has been printed - does that mean my £20 is worthless??
[ 29. November 2002, 02:07: Message edited by: MisStix ]
I honour you as an aspect of myself..
You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..
back from the dead...sort of
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
Posted:
personally I think air miles will become the international currency one day. You can use them at a whole whack of places nowadays, and what other form of money has the same value everywhere.
people must be enlightened as to the way of the airmile.
stock up now, some places give 'em away for free!!
personally I think air miles will become the international currency one day. You can use them at a whole whack of places nowadays, and what other form of money has the same value everywhere.
people must be enlightened as to the way of the airmile.
stock up now, some places give 'em away for free!!
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
"lets" and money are the same thing. The only way this would possibly work in any community is if you record them. In which case you just gave currency another name.
The only reason money works is because we have increadible faith in it. In times of extreme inflation such as germany in the height of the depression when it would take like a wheel barrel of money to buy a loaf of bread, You saw a barter/trade of services system unofficialy rise up. But it was inefficient, prone to fraud and totally limited progress. People weren't exactly thrilled to stop using money, they were quite happy when the value of their currency became more reasonable again so it was actually feasible to use it. They were still just as poor, but atleast they could begin rebuilding their economy.
I don't really see any clear advantage for a "lets" system unless in situations such as the one germany was in in the depression. Even then it can only remain temporarily. Surely it will not eliminate war and murder and stress and everything else you might want to blame on currency for currency is completly worthless, it simply represents goods and services. It no longer represents the same value of gold kept in a mint (atleast not that I know of) War crime stress etc.. are not the fault of currency but the fault of economic forces. As long as we live in communitys this will be an issue.
"lets" and money are the same thing. The only way this would possibly work in any community is if you record them. In which case you just gave currency another name.
The only reason money works is because we have increadible faith in it. In times of extreme inflation such as germany in the height of the depression when it would take like a wheel barrel of money to buy a loaf of bread, You saw a barter/trade of services system unofficialy rise up. But it was inefficient, prone to fraud and totally limited progress. People weren't exactly thrilled to stop using money, they were quite happy when the value of their currency became more reasonable again so it was actually feasible to use it. They were still just as poor, but atleast they could begin rebuilding their economy.
I don't really see any clear advantage for a "lets" system unless in situations such as the one germany was in in the depression. Even then it can only remain temporarily. Surely it will not eliminate war and murder and stress and everything else you might want to blame on currency for currency is completly worthless, it simply represents goods and services. It no longer represents the same value of gold kept in a mint (atleast not that I know of) War crime stress etc.. are not the fault of currency but the fault of economic forces. As long as we live in communitys this will be an issue.
enthusiast
237 posts
237 posts
Posted:
LETS was being used in and around Nimbin in the past decade, had a good friend who was involved who became despondent when she realised her services (amazingly good chef/caterer and remedial masseus) was far more popular than her need for a plumber or carpenter to fix her hous (as an example). LETS is a fantastic idea (like communism to a certain degree) but just lacks real world practicality.
As an aside I read an unreal article about 'underground currencies' like lets but far less formalised. Some places in russia whilst being percieved as poor and starving were actually found by anthropologists to be surviving without money as a means of exchange. This is not to say they were eating VERY well and were very comfortable sometimes BUT the perception of a lack of money made the situation appear (from a western/financial point of view) much worse than it actually was. Same went for some areas in Africa. There are still tribes who survive without bank accounts and lines of credit. Just depends how much dependancy you have on services. A handyman (or woman ) who can do maintainance on a house and spends 3 - 8 hours a week growing veggies in the backyard will already be reducing the burden of 'cash' in some situations.
FINALLY (sorry about the rant, I enjoy this topic) in Cuba they have one of the strongest cultures of organic, mass farming in the world. Bred from a culture where trade sanction have been in place in the past they took on growing fresh produce on a family/suburban level. A really cool example of togetherness being that 2 or 3 families may work one plot of potatoes and exchange it for tomatoes with the people up the street - just fantastic I reckon. Imagine the progress made if we all put that bit of effort in.
It's moments like these I could spend the time referencing like Dom to back this up but Time magazine was where I got the story about Cubans..... oh well.
LETS was being used in and around Nimbin in the past decade, had a good friend who was involved who became despondent when she realised her services (amazingly good chef/caterer and remedial masseus) was far more popular than her need for a plumber or carpenter to fix her hous (as an example). LETS is a fantastic idea (like communism to a certain degree) but just lacks real world practicality.
As an aside I read an unreal article about 'underground currencies' like lets but far less formalised. Some places in russia whilst being percieved as poor and starving were actually found by anthropologists to be surviving without money as a means of exchange. This is not to say they were eating VERY well and were very comfortable sometimes BUT the perception of a lack of money made the situation appear (from a western/financial point of view) much worse than it actually was. Same went for some areas in Africa. There are still tribes who survive without bank accounts and lines of credit. Just depends how much dependancy you have on services. A handyman (or woman ) who can do maintainance on a house and spends 3 - 8 hours a week growing veggies in the backyard will already be reducing the burden of 'cash' in some situations.
FINALLY (sorry about the rant, I enjoy this topic) in Cuba they have one of the strongest cultures of organic, mass farming in the world. Bred from a culture where trade sanction have been in place in the past they took on growing fresh produce on a family/suburban level. A really cool example of togetherness being that 2 or 3 families may work one plot of potatoes and exchange it for tomatoes with the people up the street - just fantastic I reckon. Imagine the progress made if we all put that bit of effort in.
It's moments like these I could spend the time referencing like Dom to back this up but Time magazine was where I got the story about Cubans..... oh well.
member
12 posts
Location: this planet, mostly
12 posts
Location: this planet, mostly
Posted:
regarding alternative money
in Ithica, NY and Mendocino, Ca
there's an alternative community money/barter system
there's propably more places where this happens and i know of exensive bartering/trading happeing in all sorts of circles.
makes so much sense.
if all of us would trade goods and services more freely amongst ourselves it would add so much to the lifes of individuals and communities.
has there ever been a barter/trade thread here?
regarding alternative money
in Ithica, NY and Mendocino, Ca
there's an alternative community money/barter system
there's propably more places where this happens and i know of exensive bartering/trading happeing in all sorts of circles.
makes so much sense.
if all of us would trade goods and services more freely amongst ourselves it would add so much to the lifes of individuals and communities.
has there ever been a barter/trade thread here?
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
I still dont know how well it would work, but I like the idea of the barter system.
I still dont know how well it would work, but I like the idea of the barter system.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Yeah it sure would add so much to the lives of individuals and communitys, if you ignore all the glaring problems with it in a community over the size of like 100.
And you still need money unless you live in some soverign nation that has no taxes.
Yeah it sure would add so much to the lives of individuals and communitys, if you ignore all the glaring problems with it in a community over the size of like 100.
And you still need money unless you live in some soverign nation that has no taxes.
member
12 posts
Location: this planet, mostly
12 posts
Location: this planet, mostly
Posted:
well, i'm not saying we should abolish currency at once, forever
but that by individuals trading and bartering for services and goods will in itself be a tool for creating communities within communities so that everyone has a choice as to how to conduct business. would i rather trade, say, a piece of fabric for a whole bunch of fresh, organic produce which i know is grown with love, or fork over hard cash at a sterile supermarket, well yeah. we all know that we all live in different realities, my suggestion is to add more sense and security by finding better ways of conducting business! can be done in a city. be creative!
i just read about a college which takes real life pigs and produce and anything else it can cook up for the students in exchange for tuition.
allows a whole lot of farm girls and boys to attend college if they otherwhise couldn't have.
well, i'm not saying we should abolish currency at once, forever
but that by individuals trading and bartering for services and goods will in itself be a tool for creating communities within communities so that everyone has a choice as to how to conduct business. would i rather trade, say, a piece of fabric for a whole bunch of fresh, organic produce which i know is grown with love, or fork over hard cash at a sterile supermarket, well yeah. we all know that we all live in different realities, my suggestion is to add more sense and security by finding better ways of conducting business! can be done in a city. be creative!
i just read about a college which takes real life pigs and produce and anything else it can cook up for the students in exchange for tuition.
allows a whole lot of farm girls and boys to attend college if they otherwhise couldn't have.
member
239 posts
Location: Laguna Beach, but i live in Denver, Colo, USA
239 posts
Location: Laguna Beach, but i live in Denver, Colo, USA
Posted:
Well, money is not really some piece of paper symbolising a bit of gold somewhere. Money is a piece of paper symbolising the time/effort/skills/materials involved in doing or making something that people need/want. If Svye makes me some poi triggers, and i give him $20, that $20 is representing the time, skill and leather that went into the triggers. I could also give Svye a 20 minute massage as a barter. Or i could give him a bushel of fresh veggies from my garden. The reason we have money rather than barter for the most part is that it gets quite awkward carrying around bushels of tomatoes, or pairs of the shoes you make or whatever. The let system can work nicely within a small grouping of people, as mentioned above. It would still need some money in place as well, because what if i make jewelry and the dentist doesn't wear it? Not everyone wants/needs what the other person has to barter. (Amusingly, when i was in high school, my mom paid for my new glasses by making some lovely gold earrings for the optometrist. )
Any way you slice it, whether you use cash or checks or lets or bushels of tomatoes, there will be someone who will want to have more than anyone. The famous quote is all too frequently MISquoted: it not "money is the root of all evil", it's "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil"...
Anyway, lets/barter would not ultimately replace the 9-5 grind, although it might change to something you enjoy more. One can think of going back to the land and growing ones own food and having goats to milk and whatnot, but believe me, keeping up enough of a farm to feed just a family of four is a truckload of work! Ask anyone who does it. They may not go to a job away from their house, but i guarantee you, they are working their tail off. And too, some people are better at some parts of this stuff than others. I happen to be quite good with animals, but can't keep a plant alive to save my life. My housemate is good with plants, but when he tries to sew, all he does is poke himself and trash the fabric. So pretty soon, he's growing the plants, i'm keeping the goats, my sister is making the clothes, and my neighbor is fixing the roof, and we're trading pieces of paper to symbolise a certain amount of time/skill/materials, etc, and we have money again.
But i do barter bodywork, jewelry repair, or interiors work wherever i can...
[ 01. December 2002, 15:48: Message edited by: Jade Lynx ]
Well, money is not really some piece of paper symbolising a bit of gold somewhere. Money is a piece of paper symbolising the time/effort/skills/materials involved in doing or making something that people need/want. If Svye makes me some poi triggers, and i give him $20, that $20 is representing the time, skill and leather that went into the triggers. I could also give Svye a 20 minute massage as a barter. Or i could give him a bushel of fresh veggies from my garden. The reason we have money rather than barter for the most part is that it gets quite awkward carrying around bushels of tomatoes, or pairs of the shoes you make or whatever. The let system can work nicely within a small grouping of people, as mentioned above. It would still need some money in place as well, because what if i make jewelry and the dentist doesn't wear it? Not everyone wants/needs what the other person has to barter. (Amusingly, when i was in high school, my mom paid for my new glasses by making some lovely gold earrings for the optometrist. )
Any way you slice it, whether you use cash or checks or lets or bushels of tomatoes, there will be someone who will want to have more than anyone. The famous quote is all too frequently MISquoted: it not "money is the root of all evil", it's "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil"...
Anyway, lets/barter would not ultimately replace the 9-5 grind, although it might change to something you enjoy more. One can think of going back to the land and growing ones own food and having goats to milk and whatnot, but believe me, keeping up enough of a farm to feed just a family of four is a truckload of work! Ask anyone who does it. They may not go to a job away from their house, but i guarantee you, they are working their tail off. And too, some people are better at some parts of this stuff than others. I happen to be quite good with animals, but can't keep a plant alive to save my life. My housemate is good with plants, but when he tries to sew, all he does is poke himself and trash the fabric. So pretty soon, he's growing the plants, i'm keeping the goats, my sister is making the clothes, and my neighbor is fixing the roof, and we're trading pieces of paper to symbolise a certain amount of time/skill/materials, etc, and we have money again.
But i do barter bodywork, jewelry repair, or interiors work wherever i can...
[ 01. December 2002, 15:48: Message edited by: Jade Lynx ]
We got the MikeZ in the house, woot!Glue the ham, hat baby!
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Tuition grants and scholorships are another way hehe.
Tuition grants and scholorships are another way hehe.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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