Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Is Poi Swinging, Juggling or Dancing?
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The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
I remembered that I used to think that Poi spinning was a a type of Juggling.
And that a very long time ago on HOP (4 years?) i had a "discussion" with someone (an aussi or a Yank) about this on a thread called something like "Is Poi Juggling or Dancing?".
They said that Poi was a type of dance.
I strongly expressed the view that poi was a type of juggling
Ahh what a young fool was I. Thats probably the second most wrongest thing I ever wrote on HOP. (and there have been lots of them) .Poi can be thought of as juggling but in doing so, So much of the art, almost all the things that I think are important about poi are neglected.
I would dig out the thread, but it wsa on HOP's second board which got accidently nuked a long time ago.
So, better late than never:
Yes mr/ms somebody from the other side of the world,
I agree, Poi is a kind of dancing,
and a kind of Swinging,
and a Kind of Manipulation,
But mostly a kind of Dance
(yes poi can also be juggled, See wibbling Matt! Most things can be juggled, but that aint what we is mostly doing)
Wobble
That'll put a cat amongst the works
I remembered that I used to think that Poi spinning was a a type of Juggling.
And that a very long time ago on HOP (4 years?) i had a "discussion" with someone (an aussi or a Yank) about this on a thread called something like "Is Poi Juggling or Dancing?".
They said that Poi was a type of dance.
I strongly expressed the view that poi was a type of juggling
Ahh what a young fool was I. Thats probably the second most wrongest thing I ever wrote on HOP. (and there have been lots of them) .Poi can be thought of as juggling but in doing so, So much of the art, almost all the things that I think are important about poi are neglected.
I would dig out the thread, but it wsa on HOP's second board which got accidently nuked a long time ago.
So, better late than never:
Yes mr/ms somebody from the other side of the world,
I agree, Poi is a kind of dancing,
and a kind of Swinging,
and a Kind of Manipulation,
But mostly a kind of Dance
(yes poi can also be juggled, See wibbling Matt! Most things can be juggled, but that aint what we is mostly doing)
Wobble
That'll put a cat amongst the works
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Getting to the other side 
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
Drew, very clear thinking and nicely laid out. I look forward to your books! But why swinging instead of spinning? And why are people putting Spanner in with cats? How do the cats feel about this? And no, hula hoop is not juggling, unless you juggle them! ( 2bags- ya tried juggling flaming hoops yet?)
I like thinking about your categories, but feel that there is so much overlap depending on how they are being approached, as to make it all a bit blurry. "Manipulation" as a description or cateogory sub- cateogory of a movement form, or dance art, is a new term for me, have to consider it further...
* goes off to drink some coffee and try to get less blurry*
Drew, very clear thinking and nicely laid out. I look forward to your books! But why swinging instead of spinning? And why are people putting Spanner in with cats? How do the cats feel about this? And no, hula hoop is not juggling, unless you juggle them! ( 2bags- ya tried juggling flaming hoops yet?)
I like thinking about your categories, but feel that there is so much overlap depending on how they are being approached, as to make it all a bit blurry. "Manipulation" as a description or cateogory sub- cateogory of a movement form, or dance art, is a new term for me, have to consider it further...
* goes off to drink some coffee and try to get less blurry*
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
spanner's in with the cats cos the pigeons don't work
one more thing..........
are we manipulating the objects or are they manipulating us?
spanner's in with the cats cos the pigeons don't work
one more thing..........
are we manipulating the objects or are they manipulating us?
Geologists do it in the dirt................
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Not sure why you guys don't look to the dictionary definition to start with.
*****
jug·gle ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jgl)
v. jug·gled, jug·gling, jug·gles
v. tr.
-To keep (two or more objects) in the air at one time by alternately tossing and catching them.
-To have difficulty holding; balance insecurely: juggled the ball but finally caught it; shook hands while juggling a cookie and a teacup.
-To keep (more than two activities, for example) in motion or progress at one time: managed to juggle a full-time job and homemaking.
-To manipulate in order to deceive: juggle figures in a ledger.
v. intr.
-To juggle objects or perform other tricks of manual dexterity.
-To make rapid motions or manipulations: juggled with the controls on the television to improve the picture.
-To use trickery; practice deception.
n.
-The act of juggling.
-Trickery for a dishonest end.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English jogelen, to entertain by performing tricks, from Old French jogler, from Latin ioculr, to jest, from ioculus, diminutive of iocus, joke. See yek- in Indo-European Roots.]
*****
So in a VERY strict way using the first definition, poi isn't juggling. Neither is contact juggling.
But as for my answer?
There is no such thing as juggling. It is all dance.
Not sure why you guys don't look to the dictionary definition to start with.
*****
jug·gle ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jgl)
v. jug·gled, jug·gling, jug·gles
v. tr.
-To keep (two or more objects) in the air at one time by alternately tossing and catching them.
-To have difficulty holding; balance insecurely: juggled the ball but finally caught it; shook hands while juggling a cookie and a teacup.
-To keep (more than two activities, for example) in motion or progress at one time: managed to juggle a full-time job and homemaking.
-To manipulate in order to deceive: juggle figures in a ledger.
v. intr.
-To juggle objects or perform other tricks of manual dexterity.
-To make rapid motions or manipulations: juggled with the controls on the television to improve the picture.
-To use trickery; practice deception.
n.
-The act of juggling.
-Trickery for a dishonest end.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English jogelen, to entertain by performing tricks, from Old French jogler, from Latin ioculr, to jest, from ioculus, diminutive of iocus, joke. See yek- in Indo-European Roots.]
*****
So in a VERY strict way using the first definition, poi isn't juggling. Neither is contact juggling.
But as for my answer?
There is no such thing as juggling. It is all dance.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
It's all maths
It's all maths
Geologists do it in the dirt................
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
words are silly.
it all just IS.
and what is it?
enjoyment.
what a great thread. first time in ages ive read the whole way thru.
i like the phrase object manipulation. it covers all the different disciplines of this particular branch of performance art...
(whether you perform for yourself or not... blahblah)
words are silly.
it all just IS.
and what is it?
enjoyment.
what a great thread. first time in ages ive read the whole way thru.
i like the phrase object manipulation. it covers all the different disciplines of this particular branch of performance art...
(whether you perform for yourself or not... blahblah)
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Is typing the sentence 'words are silly' a bit like one of those 'this sentence is false' things?
And besides fluffy it can't be maths. It's all either 'physics or stamp collecting' according to Ernest Rutherford. And he was right smart.
Written by: shen shui
words are silly.
Is typing the sentence 'words are silly' a bit like one of those 'this sentence is false' things?
And besides fluffy it can't be maths. It's all either 'physics or stamp collecting' according to Ernest Rutherford. And he was right smart.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
brilliant question, different discussion...
crossover is great innit
one thing i never liked about the poi dancing i had seen when i started spinning was the whole 'poi leading' thing - it seemed to me me that i only really saw people dancing and giving the effect of the body following where the poi were leading.
not that this is bad - it looks beautiful and is so well suited to dancing with poi - it just wasn't for me.
as a result of trying to avoid this style, i ended up spinning turns so that my body turned 90deg ahead of my poi and i attempted to maintain body positions that were defined by leaning away from the poi rather than towards them.
this (hopefully
) helped to create the visual suggestion of me manipulating the object/s rather than the other way around ('domination' in the person-object relationship terms set out by ewan in that link above).
cole. x
Written by: fluffy napalm fairy
are we manipulating the objects or are they manipulating us?
brilliant question, different discussion...
crossover is great innit
one thing i never liked about the poi dancing i had seen when i started spinning was the whole 'poi leading' thing - it seemed to me me that i only really saw people dancing and giving the effect of the body following where the poi were leading.
not that this is bad - it looks beautiful and is so well suited to dancing with poi - it just wasn't for me.
as a result of trying to avoid this style, i ended up spinning turns so that my body turned 90deg ahead of my poi and i attempted to maintain body positions that were defined by leaning away from the poi rather than towards them.
this (hopefully
) helped to create the visual suggestion of me manipulating the object/s rather than the other way around ('domination' in the person-object relationship terms set out by ewan in that link above).cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
we're fairly content, it has to be said.
this is a great thread. thank you for your insightful comments on the fone, drew. i feel i understand more why you started it
hugs
Written by: andrealee
Drew, very clear thinking and nicely laid out. I look forward to your books! But why swinging instead of spinning? And why are people putting Spanner in with cats? How do the cats feel about this?
we're fairly content, it has to be said.
this is a great thread. thank you for your insightful comments on the fone, drew. i feel i understand more why you started it
hugs
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
and the rest of us understand less
/
(Cole - there doesn't seem to be much to that discussion - just as it was getting interesting.....?)
and the rest of us understand less
/ (Cole - there doesn't seem to be much to that discussion - just as it was getting interesting.....?)
Geologists do it in the dirt................
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Coleman, the poi leading idea is one the reasons I came out in support of the timing is important idea over on the can you do this move thread. ( another, reason which I neglected to mention,was the buzzsaw, imo it needs perfect split timing to look good)
I work on that turning ahead of my poi idea too, sometimes,,,at other times I follow my poi. I also like to vary the speed of my poi. and when I combine the two along with spinning circles in front or beside my body, it's great fun,,,or hopeless confusion.
My way of thinking, and it appears to be working ,,is practice helps reduce the incidences of confusion. Six months ago, I could only get this idea to work in same time, but now it's becoming more reliable in split time which imo (again ) gives a more " dancey " feel to the whole experience.
Coleman, the poi leading idea is one the reasons I came out in support of the timing is important idea over on the can you do this move thread. ( another, reason which I neglected to mention,was the buzzsaw, imo it needs perfect split timing to look good)
I work on that turning ahead of my poi idea too, sometimes,,,at other times I follow my poi. I also like to vary the speed of my poi. and when I combine the two along with spinning circles in front or beside my body, it's great fun,,,or hopeless confusion.
My way of thinking, and it appears to be working ,,is practice helps reduce the incidences of confusion. Six months ago, I could only get this idea to work in same time, but now it's becoming more reliable in split time which imo (again ) gives a more " dancey " feel to the whole experience.
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
Maybe we can appease everyone and say the cat is half dead half alive.
Maybe we can appease everyone and say the cat is half dead half alive.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
But it's not even that, it's both fully dead and fuly alive at the same time! Observing the cat collapses the wave form and reveales its true state. In fact, you might say that the act of looking either gives life to or kills the cat.
But sometimes there are 3 states, alive, dead, or bloody furious.
But it's not even that, it's both fully dead and fuly alive at the same time! Observing the cat collapses the wave form and reveales its true state. In fact, you might say that the act of looking either gives life to or kills the cat.
But sometimes there are 3 states, alive, dead, or bloody furious.
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
silly, the cat is both alive and dead at the same 'time'
silly, the cat is both alive and dead at the same 'time'
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Surely, The cat is both alive and silly in split 'time'.
Eh
Surely, The cat is both alive and silly in split 'time'.
Eh
addict
666 posts
Location: Netherlands
666 posts
Location: Netherlands
Posted:
Nyc "-To keep (more than two activities, for example) in motion or progress at one time: managed to juggle a full-time job and homemaking." Sounds vaguely poi-ísh to me. Also covers multi ball cj too.
Working in theatre I've seen a big heap of "dance", of all sorts, shapes and sizes. Some of it beautiful and graceful, some of it woefully boring and some of it more static than the most technical poi head around. Feet rooted in the ground and as little upper body movement as possible. And then alot more bizzare stuff. I guess it only becomes dancing when some one says, hey, he or she or they is/are dancing.
Is walking down the street dancing?
Whats the difference between walking down the street and dancing, even if you dont have a certain skip to your step. Weaving through a crowded street in a hurry, you'll porbably make more elegant and graceful moves than down at the half blim local disco, but nobody is going to say, "wow, there goes a happy dancer". Then again, back at your local half blim, all will be out on the dance floor getting thier groove on, but in actual fact it's nothing more than sagging through your knees and waving your arms about alittle. You get in more footwork in on your way to the toilet than on the dance floor. I guess if you made a modern dance piece of someone walking down the street it could only then be labelled dance. Well basically what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, sure poi or walking down the street, is dance but only after you've declared to yourself or others that what your doing is dancing.
Maybe dancing does'nt even exsist, maybe it's just a label given by someone to goaless (as in A's and B's and the lack thereof) movement. Is poi movement, is dance movement, is cj movement? So far thats a fairly certain yes for the questions. For me, it sounds more plausable than dancing. Someone still needs to come along and make the definite statement that it is dance before it elevates to that status.
Another nice term i heard recently is testiculating (irish radio dj humour), the def. was - An unessicarly large amount of movement of your hands and arms while talking. It does sound close enough to be incorporated in some way.
Blah Blah flap flap
Nyc "-To keep (more than two activities, for example) in motion or progress at one time: managed to juggle a full-time job and homemaking." Sounds vaguely poi-ísh to me.
Also covers multi ball cj too.Working in theatre I've seen a big heap of "dance", of all sorts, shapes and sizes. Some of it beautiful and graceful, some of it woefully boring and some of it more static than the most technical poi head around. Feet rooted in the ground and as little upper body movement as possible. And then alot more bizzare stuff. I guess it only becomes dancing when some one says, hey, he or she or they is/are dancing.
Is walking down the street dancing?
Whats the difference between walking down the street and dancing, even if you dont have a certain skip to your step. Weaving through a crowded street in a hurry, you'll porbably make more elegant and graceful moves than down at the half blim local disco, but nobody is going to say, "wow, there goes a happy dancer". Then again, back at your local half blim, all will be out on the dance floor getting thier groove on, but in actual fact it's nothing more than sagging through your knees and waving your arms about alittle. You get in more footwork in on your way to the toilet than on the dance floor. I guess if you made a modern dance piece of someone walking down the street it could only then be labelled dance. Well basically what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, sure poi or walking down the street, is dance but only after you've declared to yourself or others that what your doing is dancing.
Maybe dancing does'nt even exsist, maybe it's just a label given by someone to goaless (as in A's and B's and the lack thereof) movement. Is poi movement, is dance movement, is cj movement? So far thats a fairly certain yes for the questions. For me, it sounds more plausable than dancing. Someone still needs to come along and make the definite statement that it is dance before it elevates to that status.
Another nice term i heard recently is testiculating
(irish radio dj humour), the def. was - An unessicarly large amount of movement of your hands and arms while talking. It does sound close enough to be incorporated in some way.Blah Blah flap flap
Come forth and thou shalt win enternal happiness. but he came fifth so he won an electric toatser.
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Written by: Glåss
Surely, The cat is both alive and silly in split 'time'.
Eh
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Posted:
wow people talking about the cat being alive and dead and neither me nor bryn have posted yet, whats happening
wow people talking about the cat being alive and dead and neither me nor bryn have posted yet, whats happening
UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."
Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump
BRONZE Member
member
87 posts
Location: New South Wales
member
87 posts
Location: New South Wales
Posted:
neither poi is swing
swing: juggling:
staff juggling
poi diabolo
devilsticks
neither poi is swing
swing: juggling:
staff juggling
poi diabolo
devilsticks
GOLD Member
member
220 posts
Location: Edmonton, Canada
member
220 posts
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posted:
Poi is an art form. You swing each poi individually, juggle the timing and planes so they don't collide, and dance with the result, but poi it'self is an art.
Poi is an art form. You swing each poi individually, juggle the timing and planes so they don't collide, and dance with the result, but poi it'self is an art.
The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
firstly, i am very much alive, but mostly anti spun, both split and same time, at the moment(except where differentiated with drugs(edit: for ye record, i have been a clean mean feline for 9 days now, and intending to remain that way for some time))
secondly; you're in trouble next time i see you, pike.
R
Written by: mcpWritten by: Glåss
Surely, The cat is both alive and silly in split 'time'.
Eh
firstly, i am very much alive, but mostly anti spun, both split and same time, at the moment(except where differentiated with drugs(edit: for ye record, i have been a clean mean feline for 9 days now, and intending to remain that way for some time))
secondly; you're in trouble next time i see you, pike.
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link
so's this:
but it kicks ass!
Written by: bluecat
secondly; you're in trouble next time i see you, pike.
Non-Https Image Link
so's this:
but it kicks ass!
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Getting to the other side
BRONZE Member
multiplex
611 posts
Location: somewhere..., Germany
multiplex
611 posts
Location: somewhere..., Germany
Posted:
poi is juggling, manipulating, spinning and a performance art, everything in one, depending on you what you make out of it!
you can dance poi, to whatever kind of music you like, you can move in the rythm or stand there motionless with nothing but your poi moving, ...it's up to you!
...depending on what kind of person you are, which influences you have/had, where or by who you learnt it (from)...!
....what your ideas are, wheather you have influences from martial arts or dance (styles), you will see all that in YOUR play of poi,....if you want............
....whatever you want...!
have fun,
tina
Written by: coleman
alternative question for those that think question one is too easy:
is poi spinning, object manipulation or a performance art?
poi is juggling, manipulating, spinning and a performance art, everything in one, depending on you what you make out of it!
you can dance poi, to whatever kind of music you like, you can move in the rythm or stand there motionless with nothing but your poi moving, ...it's up to you!
...depending on what kind of person you are, which influences you have/had, where or by who you learnt it (from)...!
....what your ideas are, wheather you have influences from martial arts or dance (styles), you will see all that in YOUR play of poi,....if you want............
....whatever you want...!
have fun,
tina
- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*
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