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SILVER Member since Jan 2005

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Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1785
Posted:Synchronicity is a word created by the Swiss psychologist Carl Jung to describe the alignment of "universal forces" with the life experiences of an individual. Jung believed that many experiences perceived as coincidences were not merely due to chance, but instead reflected the creation of an event or circumstance by the "co-inciding" or alignment of such forces. The process of becoming intuitively aware and acting in harmony with these forces is what Jung labeled "individuation." Jung said that an individuated person would actually shape events around them through the communication of their consciousness with the collective unconscious.

Jung spoke of synchronicity as being an "acausal connecting principle" (ie. a pattern of connection that is not explained by causality).

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The reason i became so interested in this is...
I was at work in a little wierd hippy shop. Being bored as I usually was my mind was wondering and I began thinking about all the strange coincidences in life. Is it all random or not? are there forces at work? After lots of thought about this i realised that I really should do some work before the boss came back so i started to dust the bookshelves. As i was dusting, I knocked over a lot of books and they all landed in a big pile on the floor. On the top of the pile of books was one that i had not seen before. A book called Synchronicity all about what i had just been thinking about! freaky coincidence? or strange forces that made me find that book?

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Discuss!


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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:I know it's one of my favourite words smile

I think everything is syncronicity and patterns of coincidence.... the universe is fractal and though we can't see it all it's just one big pattern

Those occasional moments of clarity when everything works for a second and everything happens right are when you're "lined-up" with the pattern.... no forces at work save probability - some outcomes are just more likely than others

Is all part of the nutass faith i made up for myself hehe or worked out for myself.


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Akashla
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

Akashla

member
Location: On the far left of sane, Irela...

Total posts: 72
Posted:Coincidences cannot be meaningless to anyone who notices them.

To notice that there is a coincidence in the first place, would imply that you have attatched meaning to the interaction between two seperate events.

But thats just semantics...


I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:its like when you notice one brown vw camper van and then see three more in the same day... you probably wouldnt have noticed them if you hadnt seen the first one.
and i think when some thing happens in synch and you notice it, its the same it makes you notice everything else that happens in synch... this is why i get good days.

the forces at work are nothing mystical or spiritual or anything like that.. just chance... becuause you had been thinking about strange coincdences that probably made you notice the book. probably if you had been thinking about, 'how long peices of string are?', or something instead then you may have not noticed the book and just tidied it away or not given it a second glance.

so you gotta watch out, you never know when something strange is gonna happen.


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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wing


member
Location: New Haven, CT

Total posts: 52
Posted:Oh, this is my favourite topic of all time, and in the forum of my second favourite topic of all time. That was a lovely and clear summation, Star.

Whatever you want to think synchronicities are, fate or magic or chance, they're a lot of fun to play with. I've been doing a kind of life experiment in following them to see where they take me, and one of the biggest and most unexpected turns they lead me into was fire spinning. I find them stunningly beautiful sometimes.
linda


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lauz the caterpilla


lauz the caterpilla

goddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
Location: nottingham - the land of oppor...

Total posts: 2443
Posted:wow you lot are so clever i'm lost and confused confused

Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night wink* - libby_tuesday

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Synchronicity is an interesting concept, but Im yet to be convinced that anything happens by chance. To me, its more like than looking for coincidences, and finding them.

Anyone know wot the celestian prophecy has to say on this subject; I think its one of the first ones.

hasta la vista


smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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.:star:.
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

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Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1785
Posted:Synchronicity is a difficult subject. It is elusive, it cannot be ordered or repeated and therefore does not lend itself readily to scientific investigation.
Synchronicity is like dreams. Try and scientifically prove that dreams exist. We cannot take a photo of a dream or record it in anyway. All we have is the empirical evidence.

Most synchronicity is seen in hindsight. You only see the path to how you got there once you look back.

Does this mean we are creating patterns in our mind that are not there. Are we only seeing what we want to? Is synchronicity a way of giving us signposts, telling us which way to go?

confused


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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Interesting, I've been thinking about coincidences today and then this thread appears....

Statistical certainty tothe rest of you, but not to me... smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Groovy_Dream
SILVER Member since May 2005

Groovy_Dream

addict
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 449
Posted:I know of entire groups of friends that have been brought together by synchronicity alone. It's not just chance. Some things happen that chance wouldn't dictate in a million years.

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quiet


quiet

analytic
Location: bristol

Total posts: 503
Posted:quote: 'It's not just chance. Some things happen that chance wouldn't dictate in a million years. '

ARGH. the whole point about chance is that even if one event (A) has a 1/100000000 chance of occurring, there are so many other possible events [with similar probabilities attached] that at least one of them must occur.

put another way: bizarre coincidences (such as being struck by lightning twice) have a very low probability of happening. but there are so many possible coincidences that, over time, it is overwhelmingly probable that some will occur. it's mostly just random, although there are sometimes common causes.


ture na sig

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wing


member
Location: New Haven, CT

Total posts: 52
Posted:"Does this mean we are creating patterns in our mind that are not there. Are we only seeing what we want to? Is synchronicity a way of giving us signposts, telling us which way to go?"

As some would say, as it is within, so it is without; as it is above, so it is below. Skeptics of synchronicity tell me that what I take for signs are only there cause I was looking for them. Well, doesn't it tell me something about myself that I was looking for that particular sign? Though I'm not one to pin down specific beliefs about anything, I've decided to try looking at them as divine, and at the same time practical evidence of what's going on in my subconscious and my overall state of mind, which is sometimes as much a mystery to me as any other of these big questions about the universe.

All I know for sure is that life is a lot more exciting when you hitch your wagon up to meaningful coincidences and go for the ride.

linda wink


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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:In the words of Terry Pratchett...

"Million to one chances crop up nine times out of ten."

...and ten out of ten statistician agree. smile


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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yoni
GOLD Member since Jun 2005

yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath, United King...

Total posts: 3099
Posted:hehe

did you know that 7 out of 10 of statisticks are made up

did you know 90 percent of women prefer statisticians


UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:i just noticed a post in staff moves called dark synchronisity .... (not yet read it.. redface )



ubbloco


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:lol going a bit offtopic there

my take is that things like synchronitcity are a combination

remember humans are programmed at a very deep level to see patterns - thats what makes us so adaptable and sruvive so well - we spot that throwing a rock at a lion angers it so we dont throw rocks at lions. this skill has become very well honed so we spot patterns on many levels

also quiet makes a very good point just because somethign has low odds dosnt mean it wont happen.

a good example is taken from terry pratchetts science of the discworld (it has a few chapters on things like this)

imagine you go to an airport and meet someone you havnt seen for a long time - you think it must be fate. BUT consider how many times you have gone to the airport and not meet a long lost friend etc. which one stands out? now think of all the people that go to airports and dont meet long lost friends....

now look at the odds of it happening say 1/36500 (number of days plus a couple of 0's tongue) how many people go through an airport every day? ....

so maybe it is a grand plan or cosmic forces but it could just be chance, and if its a plan why show us what it is? it can easily be hiden smile


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:not offtopic, i was just posting an example of synchronsity smile

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Elemental666
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

member
Location: Bville, OK, USA

Total posts: 45
Posted:food for thought...

Synchronisity is act of being in sync with the pattern of life in which you a currently traveling. The universe is fractal and every choice creates several several outcomes. By being aware of the circumstances of your reality you can better percieve the signals and signs that will guide you to a given outcome. Personally, I believe there is an element of truth to all this, but I don't believe you have the power to "create" a coinsidance. You merely have the power to be more aware of your environment physically, mentally and spiritually. Jung's concept isn't originally his. A great many religions include this type of teaching. God gives signs to his followers, shamans see certain animals as signs of things to come, so on and so forth.

My personal theory on this is that the industrial revolution desensitized the majority of human kind. Jung was attempting to restore the metaphysical link that had been replaced by mass materialism and corporate evolution. If we look at some cliches like "Never look a gift horse in the mouth", "Opportunity never knocks twice" and a great many along these lines, we can see that there is a long history of being more aware of what life is trying to offer you. The Celestine Prophecy hits on these and takes it a step beyond in to a sort of cosmic energy current that you can train yourself to tap into and manipulate. I don't think the manipulation portion of that theory is as direct as James Redding would like us to believe.

So, how do I apply these things? Some examples: When I'm sitting at work and my mind wanders to a specific subject I'll research it as best I can at the moment. I won't be rigid in what I'm looking for I'll just begin reading up on the subject and eventually I'll find a link to something I'm interested in. Many times the inital subject will bear no relavence in my life, but what it links to, or rather HOW its links, will lead me to a better understanding of my interests. Sometimes it wil open my perception to the point of allowing me to interact with my environment in a more positive and productive manner.

I think the point of this and other similar theories are not to train yourself to mold your future to YOUR desired outcome, but rather to allow you to discover where your life path is leading you....

Thems mah 2 centaroos, for what they are worth...


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Lavatwilight
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Lavatwilight

old hand
Location: Wellington somerset, UK

Total posts: 834
Posted:ooo
right i will attack this from two, maybe more points of view,
firstly here is a quote from a very good book "Boltzmann's kicker, if the universe waits longenough, for nearly an eternity, perhaps- its usual high entropy, highly probibily dishordered state, will through its own bumping and random streaming of particls and radiation will sooner or later happen to colapse in to the state we now see it, our bodys and brains would emerge fully formed from the chaos- stocked with memories, knolegde and skill, even tho the past they show will have never really happened, every thing we know about every thing we value, would ammount to mothing more than a rare but every so often expectable statistical fluction of a near eternity of dishorder" -Brian Greene the fabric of the cosmos.

that considered that there are an infinite number of probabilitys for each out come, and that our lives contain so many things that follow pattern, appear when we need them most, bring you to meet some one and fall compleatly in love at pretty much first sight, at a train station, the one morning you think "id like to meet some one compleatly new and intersting" and that in meeting that person so many evens, pattens ideas have been found by both in very diffrent places. just one example

but then you could look at this from a quntium point of view, and that it is all just an interfearance patten.

or from taking a strange look from the point of most religions "god made us in his own likness" and take from this a higher state of consiousness that we are not aware of, and through the beliefe of an individual about reality that becomes truth and we shape the universe we live in, if we need strange happenings to make us think, then they will happen...?
personally, i am not a follower of a faith, apart from that which i have made up for my self to fit ideals and stances i hold,
but this does she a light on the want for a religion for people does it not? or infact show that there is something more, some special design that out of infinite complexity, comes this, us.

i think i have just gone on about a whole load of nothing for a bit there.

i might try and make some sense out of that later...maybe


Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Wow, Elemental666, that makes sense.

Like, bad luck comes in threes etc.


cheers smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:oli i didnt mean you tongue

Lavatwilight - think i see what your getting at

and brian greene is very good read - must actualyl sit down and make another attempt - reading it before bed makes my brain ache.

i still fall on the free will side of things though i truely beleive that each possible outcome of every event (from quantum positioning to glactic collisions - gods thats a good phrase go me smile ) creates its own branch of the universe and that ALL possiblities are mapped out as such - ie i believe gods exist i just dont worship them.


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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:syncronicity is what frodo was planning on calling his performance group before it got organised into pyroflow...
it sounds like an onomatapaeic(?) word as in it sounds very balanced and organised...


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Lavatwilight
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Lavatwilight

old hand
Location: Wellington somerset, UK

Total posts: 834
Posted:linden it is a bloody good book, makes my brain ache at times as well, but thats mainly dure to the silly ammounts of metaphore used, rather than it just giving it to me the way it is smile

i like what your saying, and i willl make some more sense of what i have written up there, in a time when i am not covered in fiberglass, and insulating a roof :P


Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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wing


member
Location: New Haven, CT

Total posts: 52
Posted:Written by: Elemental666

Many times the inital subject will bear no relavence in my life, but what it links to, or rather HOW its links, will lead me to a better understanding of my interests. Sometimes it wil open my perception to the point of allowing me to interact with my environment in a more positive and productive manner.

I think the point of this and other similar theories are not to train yourself to mold your future to YOUR desired outcome, but rather to allow you to discover where your life path is leading you....

Thems mah 2 centaroos, for what they are worth...



Exactly. Excellent. Thank you!


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Arty Farty
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

Arty Farty

I wear yellow on monday
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom

Total posts: 551
Posted:ditto to that



Written by: Akashla


Coincidences cannot be meaningless to anyone who notices them.

ditto to that too.



The book THE CELESTINE PROPHERSY talks about this quite a bit. Coincidences are messages to those who see and acknowledges them.



For instance, the summer before i went to uni some friends and i met up with a mate who we did foundation with. He had brought 3 friends with him from back home. So we had a bit of a bbq and swim etc.

Anyway i moved to uni in september chatted to my new housemate who introduced us to his friend from home who had moved 3 doors down. I said hello, and it wasnt untill the second time i met him, that i realised why he looked so damn familiar. He was one of the guys id met on the beach a month and half before.

i think thats quite a mad coincidence.



i think meeting my housemate and her, now boyfriend, in that same week too was the bestest of coincidences. There are some people you know you'll know forever, and they are two of them. But what in that brief moment, i walked past them. Missing coincidences is the brain-imploding part for me.

EDITED_BY: arty farty (1123870350)


You'll find me on the dance floor

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:on a similar vein how many ppl 'believe' in deju vue - seeing the future in dreams etc?

i find that i will often expiernce deja vu form a dream - ie ill expierence something then 'remember' i had a dream about something similar - is this coincidence or would you say its synchronicity *or* as i sometimes believe your mind re-writing small details in your dream....

do people find that coincidences and unexpected events kick of deja vu feelings? would you say this is due to being in sync or out?


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.:star:.
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

.:star:.

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1785
Posted:I get that too...all the time!

I remember dreaming it and i remember thinking about dreaming it...but at the same time i wonder if i ever dreamed it at all!?

I have strangely predictive dreams. I often dream about people i haven't seen for a while and then see them the next day. This happed today. Last night a friend who had moved away came to see me in my dream and this afternoon i get a phone call saying that he's back for the day did i want to meet up!

I really hope that one dream that i had last night is not predictive but the freaky thing is that by boyfriend had a very similar dream too! I dreamt that i had no legs, they had been amputated. My dream wasn't too horrid, just life with no legs. When i woke i was a little freaked out and told my boyfriend to which he looked very shocked. He had dreamed that he had seen a lorry drive over me and i had to have my legs removed. eek
-------------------------------------------------------

Back on topic

IF there is synchronicity, then WHY is there??

Who is leaving these signs?

It is often speculated that it is some form of higher intelligence showing us the way. Not necessarily a god. Sometimes an alien!

Timothy Leary, Aliester Crowley and many others have studied synchronicities and believe that they are made by a higher intelligence that is trying to aid our progress though life and to help us evolve so that we can truely embrace all of our brain power. (Timothy Leary had a theory that our brains have 8 circuits that it can function on and the average human being only uses the first 4 of these. I could go more into this but it would take this off topic a bit!)

I find it very difficult to believe in a higher power or higher intelligence that is trying to guide us like this. At the same time i cannot see that we create all these 'coincidences' in our own minds.

Surely if synchronicities are 'real' then they have to be created by someone/something!?

my brain is fried!


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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:eek thats a bit scary star no legs eek

as for higher purpose **if** there is some higher being i think it would end up much like the end of good omens (if you havnt read it dont worry)

where the higher power leaves just enough to hint but ultimatly we wont see it untill we are allowed

any power strong enough to leave such hints will know exactl whats going on (or well enough to make no difference or plan for all differences) that should we ever meet it it will only be on its terms when we're ready

personally i dont like that idea as it is too like fate (yes i know what i believe can be seen as fate but its fate of all chances so you cant know whats going to happen)

if these grooves do exsist without some higher being i would feel that it begs the question of why they exsist at all, maybe some random form of instinct? almost like a setiant planet in which we are the cells? again this leads to another higher being....


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