Forums > Other Toys > Fire breathing fuels - worldwide ??

Login/Join to Participate

Phox


Phox

Member
Location: Pforzheim, Nuremburg / Germany

Total posts: 2
Posted:Hi Firefriends,

I'm a fireperformer from Nuremburg/Germany. Here we hafe several suppliers for fire breath fuels.
They are from 7 up to 20 for one liter. Mostly based on pure Paraffin:

http://www.feuershow.de/cgi-bin/shop/list.cgi?len=5&start=1&kat=020&id=10940834398369
br>
well known (also in UK?) put most expensive, from "Safex":
http://www.diecircuskiste.de/cgi-bin/his-webshop.pl?f=NR&c=850001&t=index&p=fd
br>
http://www.zauberstore.de/index.php?op=showItem&artikel=419
br>
What products are available in your country?


Phox


To all "Fire-breathing-Newies" ;-)
It is VERY dangerous, please read the article about fire breathing!!


Delete Topic

ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:Try tech discussion, this topic has been exhausted to no end smile
Try doing a search simply for the words Fire Breathing or Fire Breathing Fuels.

Phox is right, it is VERY dangerous, and there are several people on these boards alone who have had incredibly bad experiences with it, not to mention the people who die world wide from it every year, or suffer from horrible injuries.


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

Delete

Phox


Phox

Member
Location: Pforzheim, Nuremburg / Germany

Total posts: 2
Posted:Yes, i saw the posts about Kerosene and Lamp Oils.

But there is no fuel from juggling shops, especially sold for fire breathing??


Delete

UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:Nope. Dont think so.

What would be the best properties for it?
I'll see if I can make something... wink


Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:My troupe uses grain alcohol to frie breath. If you do it too often you may geta little tipsy, and it burns your mouth if your not used to it, but gives a decent flame with none of the toxic side effects. (Grain alcohol = everclear = 190 - 200 proof alcohol, illegal in some states, but luckily not in the state of CT where i go to school). Alcohol does burn hot, so the flame is a little more bluish than a white gas flame, but not too much. And knwoing that what I am holding in my mouth is indeed not carcinogetic makes me feel warm and fuzzy, in a non-malignat sort of way...

Delete

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:yeah......using grain alcohol is a bad idea all over...im sure the mods are going to jump on this one...but YOU GET DRUNK AS YOU BLOW AND ITS A BAD FcensoredING IDEA!

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:As a professional fire breather I'm not even going to dignify the topic of grain alcohol with a response other than see darkpoets above response, krakfiend69 you are being ironic are you, please say yes.

Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:sorry to disappoint you and maybe the mods wil get all over me for this, but i am not being ironic. my troupe researched with all of the numerous possibilities, and the overall consensus was that in fact grain alcohol was the safest. maybe we have all just built up too much tolerance, but there is NO intoxicity at all when we use it... it stays in our mouths for probably less than 15 seconds, and none is swallowed. i know that there are a whole mass of blood vessels under the tongue and it is absorbed into the blood stream, but not enough in that short of a time to have any effect at all. also keeo in mind that, for instance, over the course of the current show we are choreographing, which is a little over an hour long, i breathe fire 5 times, and no one else in the troupe does it more than twice, and they are all spread out, so there is actual no concern about intoxication.



some of the benefits of grain alcohol are the facts that it is NOT a carcinogen, and if inhaled you will not have permanenet scarring on your lungs, and, if swallowed, while there is a vile taste and then possible intoxication (for most peple taking one shot shouldnt bother them, assuming they have had alcohol before) but YOU DONT NEED TO PUMP YOUR STOMACH or coat it with charcoal or anything similar.



Alcohol does burn a lot hotter, this is true. But, overall, for our troupe and for part -time fire breathers, i would like some reasons why it you are so horribly against it. after much, much thought and consideration and evaluation, we honestly consider it to be the least of all evils. Also, having consulted with numerous medical professionals in respiratory, gastrointestinal, and generla medicine fields, i have received a consensus by all that concurrs with our decision.



if you plan on doing it numerous times in a row, or with any significant regularity during the course of a show, then i agree intoxication can become a serious issue. You think the risk of inhaling and ingesting carcinogenic, life altering substances is better? I am not being condescending, i am being serious. as a professional fire breather, i would really, really like a detailed an explanative reason why, countering all of the beenfits i have given for grain alcohol. this wasnt a rash decision on our part, and it wasnt a, "oh wow, look, that lights on fir, lets use it!" decision either. we have all read all of the warnings and reviews and guides and all of that jazz. the leader of our troupe has been dancing for about 6 and a half years, the rest of us that fire breathe between 1 and 3 years, though all of us began the voyage into fire breathing together. in years past, former leaders of the troupe used white gas, and then the troupe started using grain alcohol last year when one of the leaders, who danced in a professional fire dancing troupe in san francisco for 7 years, reccomended the grain alcool. this year, since all of them have left, we re-evaluated the situation entirely considering all options and i would really love to have it explained why it is such a bad idea OTHER than the facts that "you can get drunk" (which is a really, really shallow argument in my opinion, as long as the persons engaging in it have in fact consumed alcohol before and are not planning on repeating it numerous time in a short time frame) and other than the fact that grain alcohol burns hotter than say white gas, because ideally you would not ever be getting any on you to have to experience that in any case.



I know that the fumes of any alcohol are combustible, and its flash point is lower than other fuels. but as long as you are using a sealed, airtight container for storage (with a locking/twisty type of lid) that is not a large concern.



ALSO - IMPORTANT NOTE that I probably should have mentioned earlier... when taking everythign into consideration and making the decision for grain alcohol, it was also decided that it wold be used for fireballs and large fire balls, and NOT FOR PILLARS. Because of the flash point and volatility of fumes, we realize that there is a greater risk of blowback, and as such acknowledge that there is no intent to use the alcohol as a fuel for pillars. However, we also agreed, that as dancers who have been experimenting with fire bretahing for only about 3 months now, we are in no way ready to begin attempting pillars yet in any case, and if we decided that we did in fact want to do so, we would re-re-evaluate our fuel possibilities.



Maybe there are other issues such as the ability of the various fuels, as a result of compositions and densities, to aspirate in different ways. If either of these pertain, please let me know. Other than that, i am dumbfounded.



And, Phox, what are the ingredients in the fuel marketed for fire breathers, and is it toxic?


Delete

Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:I'm not a fire breather but I love to play devils advocate so I thought I'd comment anyways.

Given how many things are carcinogenic already, I wouldn't really put that at an extreme priority in your list. While alcohol itself is not carcinogenic, it is co-carcinogenic, meaning it assists those other carcinogens already in your body hence the wonderful increase of liver cancer, and 20% increases in breast cancer of women who drink. If you want lists of the Carcinogenicity (yes apparently thats really a word) of various chemicals you can check out the IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer). There are other things on there that worry me more than the little exposure you'd get from breathing. Everything from paint, to wood dust.

Intoxication may not be a big deal to you, but it could easily become a serious problem when something goes wrong, whether its related to the alcohol or not, and it comes down that you have acohol in you. Whether or not you were actually drunk your insurance, or whoever could easily pawn blame off on your for being negligent and under the influence. God forbid something bad happens and the police come and find a bunch of bottles of booze on stage.

Written by:
other than the fact that grain alcohol burns hotter than say white gas, because ideally you would not ever be getting any on you to have to experience that in any case.



If you're going to use that as an argument than you can't comment on inhalation or swollowing white gas either because ideally you wouldn't be doing either of those either.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:Lurch,

As for your first point - I agree with you, but it still worries me. Also because of gum and tongue cancer issues, where the fuel does come in direct contact. I dont go around eating paint chips. Not unless I am bored, that is... smile



Second point, I agree whole heartedly with police/liability issues. I just want to make clear though that the negligible amount of alcohol that enters your bloodstream through sublingual infusion (absorption into blood vessels under tongue) will not intoxicate the average, grown adult in any manner that affects their ability to continue fire dancing in a safe, responsible manner.



And your third point is a good one. So I can remove that line from my argument, about not planning on burning yourself. I would like to know if anyone knows how the actual reprucussions would differ... that is, if you catch fire with lamp oil or with grain alcohol, and you're extinguished in the same amount of time, what would the actual difference be? I feel that neither would be pleasant, and I wonder how much of a difference there is. Does the temperature of the flame actually only affect the intesnity / color, or is it significant enough to burn you at a rate significantly faster?



Also, I think there are SERIOUS issues and concerns regarding accidentally swallowing fuel, as well as accidentally inhaling it. If you read Pele's story, titled "A Season in Hell (A Fire Breathing Accident)"

http://www.homeofpoi.com/articles/Firebreathing_accident.php




than you realize what happens if you get even the tiniest amount of lamp oil in your lungs. Permanent scarring. And if you ingest fuel, if action is immediately taken, there is a very good chance at no permanent or longterm injuries (ignoring the Big C!) but it requires immediate, severe medical attention. If you do either of those things with grain alcohol, than nothing happens. Well, OK, not "nothing." But, if you inhale grain alcohol, you cough a whole ton and choke and your probably sore, but it will not the longterm harmful affects of lamp oil (maybe in larger quantities - I am referring to inhaling a small amount of the fuel you have aspirated out of your mouth, if there is a wind change or something, which would be the same scenario for inhaling any other fuel, though obviously that trace amount of lamp oil DOES have permannet damage... again, read the story at the link above... and if you swallow the grain alcohol, you choke and spit a lot, and your throat hurts, and you should probably sit down and not dance for a while, all the while consuming some water. But in actuality the "damage" done to your body is pretty similar to two shots of vodka (assuming you swallowed an entire shot of fuel... which is a lot more than you would be using for a fire ball anyway...)



Again, I want to re-iterate. In all of our research, the biggest threat of any alcohol is the combustability of the fumes. The highly combustible fumes make blowbacks, (this is where the fire follows either the spray of fuel or the fuel fumes back to your face igniting your flesh and possibly your mouth on fire,) a higher risk. And the alcohol has a lower flash point than lamp oil or kerosene. However, if extra safety precautions are taken, keeping that in consideration, and the goal is to do flashballs and fireballs NOT BURN TOWERS / PILLARS, this reduces the risk. To do the latter move the breather aspirates it in a slow and steady motion, continually feeding fuel into the fire until the fuel is gone. With a fuel that has highly combustible fumes, this causes significantly greater chance of blowbacks occurring. DO NOT ATTEMPT PILLARS WITH AN ALCOHOL AS YOUR FUEL.



In reading all of the safety ages and what not on this site among others, there are no clear reasons as to why using an alcohol is so bad, save for the facts I just addressed, mainly low flashpoint and combustible fumes. The sites just say "do not use these fuels..."



Please, someone who considers themslef to be a professional at this, give me counter points for all of my arguments. I have no doubt in my mind that there are innumerabel people on these boards who know more about this than myself, but I have not had anyone significantly outweigh the health risks of every other toxic chemical that is used by the dangers of alcohol. I would really appreciate some feedback by people who do this on a regular basis, because with my limited contact with folks who have been dancing for years all agree that grain alcohol is good for the manner we are using it (and it is significantly better than white gas, which is what my troupe used as of two years ago). Keep in mind that this is for occasional use as an addition to the show, NOT as the significnat element in any show.



Thanks.

F.O.



edit - yes I changed my forum name - I didnt realize that forum name could be different than log in name - long, boring story as to why I used the former name, which is of no relevance...

EDITED_BY: FlamingOberon (1115062398)


Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:just read through this thread:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1
br>
which doenst really answer any of my questions, except to restate what i already know, and affirm that alcohol doesnt burn the brightest, just bluest.

I guess i want complete honesty from folks who have been doing this a longer time... how safe is it to have this stuff in your mouth? what to do when swallowed or inhaled? how come three different medical professionals told me to use grain alcohol instead?


Delete

Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:First of all, I'd like to applaud you, FlamingOberon, for asking questions about what you are doing and for responding calmly and factually to the other posts.

This issue looks like it may get heated, in which case everyone who is trying to find out information loses, but do far, most people have been very good about it.

For me, there's a few things that I'd like to confirm.

1. You mentioned concern ovder what happens if a tiny bit of lamp oil gets into your lungs. The effect of grain alcohol will be the same! Any fuel that ignites when sprayed out over a flame has certain properties to allow it to catch fire. Those properties are what causes it to chemically burn the inside of your lungs.

I'd like to know if you have talked specifically about lung inhalation with these three medical professionals, or just the general concerns about fire breathing. The comment saying it has the effect of 2 shots of Vodka is not correct. There is a huge difference between putting 2 shots into your stomach and putting a tiny amount of poisonous (yes alcohol is a poison) combustable substance into your lungs.

As a test, I would go back to thtem and say you'd like them to squirt a tiny amount of grain alcohol into your lungs to prove to some friends that it is safe. DON'T LET THEM DO IT THOUGH. If they really are reasonably knowledgable about the workings of the lungs, they will be horrified, and refuse to do it. Which will mean that it is not, and never has been safe.

2. Have these medical professionals actually taken part or read studies about firebbreathing? It's my guess that they haven't, as there is very little information anywhere in the world as yet. If that is the case, they are simply making guesses as to what the effects are from a non-fire performing point of view. I would talk to Pele about medical professionals that she has actually worked with, as they will have amuch better idea of what may happen.

3. The other major concern I have is

" it stays in our mouths for probably less than 15 seconds, and none is swallowed"

That may be true, none is swalowed, UNLESS AN ACCIDENT HAPPENS.but you don't need a muscular spasm start at the tongue (to swallow) for the fuel to go down your throat. In fact, its virtually impossible to not have some line your throat and mouth and be absorbed both through the skin of your mouth and a tiny trickle down your throat. Combine that with the fact that every time you swallow for the next hour or so, you continue to absorb.

DO NOT ASSUME FOR SECOND THAT just because you have been doing this a long time nothing will go wrong. All you need to do is slip, or a bird dropping land on your head or a drunk to throw something at you and the fuel in your mouth could all go down your throat, into your lungs or spill out all over your clothes ready to catch fire because of it's low flashpoint.

Finally, my biggets concern is the comment about being 'tipsy' sometimes. Tipsy is NOT a state any fireperformers should ever be in while playing with fire. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I believe that anyone who thinks it is ok to get tipsy, even ONCE, in a fire spinning session is being totally selfish, inconsiderate and putting everyone else around them in danger.

This could be from the delay in reaction time to an incident someone has. You can no longer be relied on to act as a safety to help them, and may be a hindrance if getting in the way of other people trying to help.

Your confidence increases while your skills drop, amking you a danger to yourself and your friends and the public.

You can say "but nothings happened yet" as much as you like. But if you do this for 15 years without an incident, all it takes is a second or so for that to change forever, you a fried or even a building may go up in flames without you possessing the baility to stop it that you would have had when 100% sober.

Don't forget, you may well get criminal charges for any damage to property and people, including those in your troupe.


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:None of the medical professionals I have spoken with havbe any first hand knowledge about breathing fire, it is speculation on their part, knowing the chemical make-up of each possible fuela dn the possible rammifications.

And no, they did not say that getting grain alcohol in your lungs is OK. But I have personally been at a party where we were taking shots of Grain Alcohol, and a friend coughed and choked on his. When you choke on a liquid it is because you were breathing and swallowing at the same time, and the one-way air valve off of your esophagus to your lungs, (dont know the name) is open. So he choked on his shot, and it was like a sucker punch to the gut, but after much coughin and sputtering, and sitting down for a spell, he was fine. No hospital, no chemical burns.


The comment about 2 shots of voska was in refernece to accidental swallowing. Most vodkas are 80 proof, or 40% alcohol. The grain alcohol we are using ia 190 proof, or 95% alcohol. So, if you take two shots of vodka, one immediately after the other, you will be consuming almost the same amount of alcohol as one shot of grain alcohol. So, assuming you had an entire shot of fuel in your mouth, which is unlikely as thats a lot, and it was accidentally swallowed, the reprecussions for that fuel being grain alcohol would be non existant, you would be fine (though youd want some water beause it isnt the most pleasant tasting) but if it were anything else, even pure kerosene, you can get paraffin poisoning, and at that point should take a charcoal pill, maybe some milk, or something, to coat your stomach, and you would be feeling it the next day, if not for longer. My intent with the comparison was not about inhaling, it was about consuming. And grain alcohol is safe to consume; it is sold as a beverage with the intent that it will be drunk. Ideally mixed and diluted. But i have don straight shots of it on numerous occasion, quite often more than one shot in a night, and been fine... again, except it tastes worse than rubbing alcohol smells and burns prettty bad.

And lastly, the "tipsy" reference was a joke. I agree whole heartedly with you on everything you said there. If you notice, in my posts following the one with the "tipsy" reference, i believe i say that if you do accidentally swallow the grain alcohol, you should not spin, as swallowing the whole shot, or however much you have, will indeed have the propensity to intoxicate you. I will say though, that in the amount of time i have been using it, i have never gotten any sort of physical or mental rammification from just holding it in my mouth. i think the most i have done at any given practice is maybe 10 fireballs, and even those were spread out, so while sublingual infusion is a concern, i do not believe it to be a substantial one.


On a side note - For my troupe's performance tonight, we have now switched and are using a equal parts combination of grain alcohol and vegetable oil. The oil alone has a very small flame and is very difficult to aspirate, but the flame is yellow-er and brighter than the grain alcohol, and the combination of the two looks really cool. and it sizzles. And it smells like burnt fried food.


Delete

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:Written by: FlamingOberon


OK. But I have personally been at a party where we were taking shots of Grain Alcohol, and a friend coughed and choked on his. When you choke on a liquid it is because you were breathing and swallowing at the same time, and the one-way air valve off of your esophagus to your lungs, (dont know the name) is open. So he choked on his shot, and it was like a sucker punch to the gut, but after much coughin and sputtering, and sitting down for a spell, he was fine. No hospital, no chemical burns.





This isnt necessarily true....grain alcohol (everclear) is just nasty stuff....taking straight shots IMO is just plain daft.....anyway you WILL choke whenever you taste something thats just revolting or potent such as grain alcohol....also remember that the absorbtion rate of chemicals such as alcohol and niccotine through the mouth is 20% FASTER than through the stomach....and getting chemical burns from just an alcohol on the skin doesnt exactly sound plausible to me....the most it does is dry the skin because of its EXTREMELY annoying tendency to absorb water out of the air



on the note of swallowing pure kero....one shot wont kill you...you will just feel rather ill and probably have the runs..





and for using veggie oil.....it can still be a poison to the body...and the blow size is 1\3 of what you can get w\ultra pure or aviation kero



also mixing alcohol and oil doesnt work...they arent miscible (sp?) and wont hold a suspension....and as far as i know (as in dont quote me) alcohol burns at 400 deg. F ish...to light the veggie oil its got to get quite a bit higher...but im not sure...ill have to go look it up...



rant over ubbloco





OH! and PHOX....how do you get those sites so they dont read in german??

EDITED_BY: darkpoet (1115217741)


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:I do not know what temp the oil burns at. It is hard to use it on its own, because it is so thick that it is much harder to aspirate than anything else.

and true, the two liquids will not remain mixed. but as long as you shake your fueling bottle, you have about 1 minute or so before they separate. the grain is clear, the oil yellow, and they mix to form a weird, milky colored liquid, but separate out into perfect clear/yellow combinations if left alone.

Different oils have different flash points, that is why you use different oils to cook different things. Peanut oil has an incredibly high flash point, where as olive oil has a relatively low one. Vegetable oil is slightly above middle. But, it is the same concept as kero, which also has a high flash point: once aspirated, the miniscule droplets heat up and catch fire simultaneously, because they are so small it is not difficult for them to reach that flash point.

I think the comment about putting the alcohol on your skin was in refernece to discovering its flash point... anything with a lower flash point will feel colder than those with a high flash point, because the rate at which is draws the heat from your skin and evaporates is quicker.

We sued this combo in our show last night, and it worked wonderfully... keep in mind, the show emphasized dancing, with staff, poi, sword, club, snake, whip, and other routines, and the fire breathing was always done to accent those, not as an independent routine. We got pretty good sized fireballs that were bright yellow from the combo.

as far as choking from shots of grain alcohol... there is a difference between choking and coughing... i mean, i have seen people choke on the stuff, as in, down their airpipes. not choke as in just cough because of the vile disgusting taste and burning that results from it. I have seen someone actually choke on it, so it definitely went into his airway and ppossibly into his lungs, possibly not. in either case, he did not get any internal chemical burns from it.

[[[2 shots of grain alcohol + 1 can of Code Red Mt. Dew = "Summer Vacation," a drink that a friend and I pioneered and consumed for basicaly the entirety of the summer two summers ago... not that bad, and cheaper than other ways to get a buzz...]]]


Delete

Firewuff


Firewuff

member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 26
Posted:three points..

1) You don't know about chemical burns, small amounts will still burn but the effect are not obvious. this goes for all fuels

2) Pure alcohol is a lot nastier on the stomach mouth etc than vodka or otherwise, not being already dilute the total amount in the stomach vs stomach acids etc it HIGHER and can cause more damage and absorbe faster than a dilute solution.

3) if a fuel is burning hotter (ie high caloric value) the for the same amount of fuel the resulting burns are worse. This would be a major concern in case of a blow back not to mention that somthing that has such a low flash point would more easily combust in your lungs.

Any thoughts?


Also on the veg oil, has anyone looked at that as a staff fuel or simmilar?


"The company of those that seek the truth is
always preferable to those who think they have
found it"

Terry Pratchet
Monsterous Regiment

Delete

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:do a durbs on veg. oil

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:i wouldnt use the veg oil as staff fuel... very hard to light in non-aspirated form, and flame is not too impressive in size... different oils have different flash points so I suppose you could experiment... however, as a means of positioning myself... i just lit up for the first time with lamp oil last week because my troupe was out of white gas, and i was highly unimpressed with the flame as well as with how hard it was to light, and it kind of convinced me why my coleman fuel is a lot nicer than lamp oil, so i might be biased...

Delete

Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Just curious has anyone done anything with using biodiesel for breathing? It's made from soybeans and seems to be remarkably safe from what I've been reading.



Flashpoint of ~321 degrees F, and from the looks of the MSDS sheets inhalation and ingestion hazards seem a lot better than with some of the other fuels you guys are talking about.



http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/MSDS.pdf




Written by:
Why should I use biodiesel?

Biodiesel is better for the environment because it is made from renewable resources and has lower emissions compared to petroleum diesel. It is less toxic than table salt and biodegrades as fast as sugar. Since it is made in the USA from renewable resources such as soybeans, its use decreases our dependence on foreign oil and contributes to our own economy.


EDITED_BY: Lurch (1116310473)


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

Delete

FlamingOberon
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

FlamingOberon

ohm mani padme hum
Location: Worcester, MA, USA

Total posts: 134
Posted:I have a friend who used to use biodiesel, but he didnt do it long term, not sure why... Maybe $$$? How expensive is it? I cant imagine it is that $$$ but maybe hard to come by?

I also am not sure if he was satisifed with the flame or not...


Delete

Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Biodesiel is only a couple bucks a gallon, although its not available everywhere... I did find this where a firespinner did a burn test with biodiesel on wicks.

http://www.fire-gear.com/testing2.php


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:From my respiratory dr's at Strong Hospital in Rochester, NY (which is a world reknown hospital)

"Any and all foreign substances into the lungs can and will cause damage. Those of a strong chemical nature, such as fuels, alcohols and even some sodas, are more prone to cause lipid pnuemonia (chemical).
Those of an oil base will be problematic in the healing of the alvioli (sp??) because of the coating nature of the liquid."

Now, you can "choke" on liquid without it getting fully into your lungs. When it shifts between the esophogus to the trachea it can cause the choking sensation. This happens frequently and people assume they have taken it into their lungs.

Biodiesal is hard to aspirate, does not give the same plume and due to it's oily, heavy nature is just as dangerous as the others to fire breathe with.

Charles is right, no amount of alcohol should be used, ever.

And with every fire breath you do, you injest fuel. It coats your mouth, so you will be swallowing it for awhile after you are done. It is absorbed through the gums and the tissue inside the mouth.

Never fool yourself into believing that there is an infallable way of doing this. No matter what fuel you use, it is not safe for many reasons. It is a risk that should be heavily calculated before attempted. No fuel is going to make it safe, neither is any technique. If you are going to choose to fire breathe, that is something you must accept along with the inevitability of accident at some point. I do not know a single professional fire breather who has not had something go wrong ever. It just doesn't happen. For some it takes longer than others. For me it took years and well into the thousands of fire breaths, but it nearly killed me.

Is that something you are willing to risk for a quick buck?

If so, then choose a high flashpoint, non-alcoholic fuel. Make sure you eat/drink appropriately before and after. Keep a burn kit with you that has charcoal caplets in it, and a paper lunch bag or respiratory kit. Practice with water and take into concideration every time you do it the risks you are taking. Always...always respect yourself, your audience and the fire and use your best judgement. If you have any doubts, don't do it.
Keep the fuel bottle/cannister with you. If you need an ambulance they will need the information off the bottle when they contact poison control.
Moist oxygen keeps fluid in your lungs from solidifying and helps to open the airways and aids in the bodily absorption of oxygen.
DO NOT induce vomitting if swallowed. Take a charcoal caplet. Eat bread. Get to a hospital if you are ill.

Don't drink soda, or alcohol afterward. It can make the effects worse.
After you are done, wash off all the skin the fuel came in contact with. Gargle and spit it out. Listerine is good for this, as it helps fight gum infections, but it won't prevent the absorption.

This is what my dr.s have said, other than simply "Don't do it."
*shrug*


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete