Forums > Technical Discussion > Fire Spinning book by Michal Kahn

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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia

Total posts: 475
Posted:
OK!

My fire spinning book just arrived from HoP (YAY)
i was just flicking through it cause i am at work and dont have time for a full on read.

In the book it suggests that your metal parts on your poi be made of aluminium......... What the Shark?

Excuse me but, doesnt that contradict everything i have learned thus far from HoP?

The author of this book is very obviously highly qualified and she really knows what she is doing. The tricks and tips in this book are amazing.

But surely she should know that SS is by far the best metal to use for your poi.


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:i know what you mean, i got it a couple weeks ago and i did a double take! aluminum doesn't last very long, right? so, we should use stainless steel, right? it quite confuuzled me

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia

Total posts: 475
Posted:I did the double take as well.

Its quite surprising that such a massive contradiction of beliefs can occur between two massively important resources. Home of Poi and the Poi Spinning Book. As far as i can tell, everything else is fine

EDITED_BY: DoktorSkell (1112935775)


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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pj


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Total posts: 277
Posted:I have a tempered aluminium alloy staff that has served me very well for some four years now. My first set of poi was made from aluminium bar stock, and that's still my primary set. There's nothing wrong with aluminium, as long as you are using the right kind and in the right places. You certainly wouldn't want to use a non-alloy tube for a staff, aluminium ball chain, or any aluminium fasteners whatsoever.

If you don't have enough knowledge of materials, you're probably better off just buying a pre-made set of wicks. But it's really not rocket science. You can make poi from damn near anything. I even made some from cocunuts once and they worked every bit as good as the fancy kevlar stuff.

http://vees.net/g2/5370.html&offset=54
br>
(read the message when it asks you for a password.)

-p.


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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia

Total posts: 475
Posted:I use custom made poi that have four types of materials

Leather for the handles
Kevlar for the wicks
and all stainless steel parts except for the swivel

I consider them to be the ultimate fire poi


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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*HyperLight
BRONZE Member since Dec 2003

*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]

Total posts: 1174
Posted:I've always built my wicks with aluminium tubes wrapped in kevlar wick. I still use the first ones I made after ~1.5 years of spinning!!

Cake or Death?

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marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:
Main materials used for what I consider to be my 'light' weight poi sets, either stainless steel or chrome plated steel tube 15mm dia, 1mm wall thickness, I use approx just over 1 meter either 65mm or 80mm kevlar, internally secured no pivots of rings, stainless steel long oval welded chain, for my own use synthetic finger loops to my own design, leather for other peeps, large poi sets are usually 22mm 1.5mm wall thickness duralimin, all other materials and build specs similar

mark


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Alu would be fine for the tube in a tubecore firehead as long as the end is done correctly, I would definatly not trust it for a chain though, alu is way to easily annealed and weakened by heat.

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:I did agree with you,
until I realised I have two of the lovliest sticks in the world, and they are both aluminium.

te Pooka send their sticks out made of aluminium (I belive), so if its good enough for them....


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:true, but most staffs (i believe) have a solid core to them, so the strength isn't in the tubing itself. Aluminum has wonderful properties for heat distribution, but it's fatigue rating is less than spectacular.

I don't have a problem with staff's made from aluminum since the strains are throughout the whole staff and usually through more metal. Ballchains or curb chains from aluminum though aren't worth it IMO. If you take two chains rated for 50 pounds, one in stainless and one in aluminum, and you hang 30 pounds off of them the aluminum chain will break eventually due to the fatigue. Stainless will keep on truckin.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

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pj


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Total posts: 277
Posted:I've never seen a solid-core staff, and I'd imagine one would actually be rather heavy. Most staves do have end-caps to keep the ends from getting to beat up. My staff is 7/8 in. tempered aluminium alloy tube, either 1/16 in. or 5/64 in. wall thickness. I have 8 in. wooden dowell shoved in the ends, partly for protection, and partly because I like the action of just slightly more weight in the ends than in the center.

As an aside, I've seen a bunch of nice take-down staves, and as much as I'd want something easier to transport, I just don't like the weight distribution the take-down fasteners add. I think the reason most of the commercially-made staves are take-down is that shipping rates are absolutely absurd for any package longer than 4 ft. in any dimension.

-p.


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:My bad redface

But regardless a staff is still a single piece of metal, or broken down but with reasonable connections built in for strength. Aluminum is a bit of a pain to weld, so I'm not sure if aluminum curb chains are actually welded or not. if not than its just a small piece of wire bent into a loop that you're trusting all the forces of the poi on.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:I have a staff that's got a wooden core running all the way through it smile

It's not incredably heavy, but obviously it is a bit heavier. The tube's made from very thin chromed mild steel, so it's not exactly strong, hence the need for the wooden core.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Soundworks


newbie


Total posts: 8
Posted:A note on the above....
From personal experience, don't use aluminum.
I wouldn't use anything but steel.
About 3 minutes into the performance... "Woh, where did my fire poi go? Man my feet are hot...."
I was lucky they flew downwards too - can you imagine if they flew 50 feet to your side and lit some grass on fire?
Not only does aluminum crack at high heats, if it doesn't, it will ignite.
When it does, it'll sound like a freaking set of fire crackers, smoke, spark like crazy, and hurt like bad words if it touches you.


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Quote page 131:
The best metal for the Chain and the other metal parts of your poi is Aluminium, which is a poor conductor of heat so wont burn you as quickly as say steel or brass."

This is dangerously wrong as Dr skell points out

Aluminiums
Max service point temperature 400 to 450K
Thermal conductivity 80-220 W/m.K

Bog standard Low Carbon steels
Max service point temperature 620K
Thermal Conductivity 50 W/m.K

Forget brass smile

So what do we see:
Aluminium is a very good conductor of heat, appx 2 to 4 times faster conductor of heat than steel
Also Aluminiums are not a great material in fatigue situations especially when operating above its same max operating temperature.
heating Aluminium up will tend to make it weaker

Aluminium is crap for poi chains
use steel chains from the hop shop (ball chain is best

Aluminium is idea for tube cores, and the ends of staffs because these are low loading situation,
(I would use catherdrals or monkey fist wicks any day - tube= errgh)

word
Drew


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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia

Total posts: 475
Posted:Written by: Glss


Aluminium is crap for poi chains
use steel chains from the hop shop (ball chain is best

word
Drew



Thanks for the backup dude. but Ball chain isnt "Best"
Its all up to personal opinion. I respect your desicion to use ball chain though. i think they look neat. My personal preference is SS twist oval chain

I do agree that Cathedrals or Monkey fists are best. i think Tubes are wimpy. I personaly use cathedrals


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Hey Skell, Why so down on 'wimpy' tubes?
Less burn time?
Smaller flames?


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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