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knalo


member


Total posts: 1
Posted:Forgive the spelling, but i didnt have the time to look it up right now. Anyway I was practicing at school the other day with my practice poi and a girl walked up to me and said that they were learning this is a polynesian dance class. I was wondering if poi had roots in polynesian dance. I had always thought that it was from like new zealand. thanx

knalo


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Fee


member
Location: Brisbane (South) Qld Aussie :P

Total posts: 80
Posted:polynesian (sp) New Zealander, Islander Hawaiin ... pretty much have the same/similar traditions/roots

Why do you like to confuse me so?

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:knalo,

Polynesia is a territory, lots of South Pacific islands. Like other, different groups of Pacific Islands are called Indonesia (coz close to India), Malaysia (coz it includes the Malay peninsula plus islands off it), Melanesia, Micronesia, Macronesia. Polynesia is the biggest territory, vast vast vast, maybe thousands of miles of hundreds or thousands of big & small islands.

Polynesians (people) travelled in canoes out of the big islands like New Zealand (where they are mainly the Maori tribe of Polynesians) to all these islands across the Pacific, including Hawaii & possibly South America, and they settled on most of them.

because they were in old Polynesia, in places like New Zealand first, fire poi or non-fire poi probably started there and was carried North & East to the other islands, including Hawaii.

but there's more to the story that's really quite a grin to hear! so

you can click each of the 4 following links to go to these pages right away:

here are the 3 places HoP has some info about "poi" & its heritage:

HoP Home page, look at the bottom under That word "poi"

HoP Articles - "Poi the word"/ more That word "poi"

HoP Articles - "Maori words"

but frankly, i think ya might most like the story we have in our Fire Stories section at OrangeFire/ SoCal, which builds from all the Polynesian poi stories we found all over the net, go to our Fire Stories page & select the story under the heading "fire history" called:

New Zealand, Japan ~ history of fire poi

which comes up on a separate pop-up page of its own.

enjoy! and be sure to tell me what ya think of them, ok?

~ Mike & OrangeFire/ SoCal

[ 25 September 2002, 15:53: Message edited by: FireMike ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:FireMike, I’m totally ignorant of Polynesian history, and this is not meant to be critical, but for some reason I thought Polynesians (people) travelled to New Zealand.

quote:Polynesians (people) travelled in canoes out of the big islands like New Zealand (where they are mainly the Maori tribe of Polynesians) to all these islands across the Pacific, including Hawaii & possibly South America, and they settled on most of them.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Stone,

remember, New Zealand Maoris are considered Polynesian stock, so Polynesian is now a "bigger" category than Maori, includes Maori. was Maori the earliest Polynesian tribe?

i'm once-better-versed & not in full memory of Polynesian migration history, Stone, so i don't know now how early New Zealand was settled among the Polynesian lands. . . regardless, which i know better, of New Zealand story lore which like probably many islands' claims they were first after the gods divided heaven & earth & grew the first life on their island.

maybe Malcolm, Charles, other New Zealanders, nearby Aussies (though Aussie Aborigines are NOT Polynesians, they are a separate, Negroid race, closer to African stock than Asian, despite having a gene for lots of blonds), & others can fill in on the known migration history from anthropological history as far as its known? and i'm sure there are still gaps in the pro's dating of the migration path, but anyone know the latest opinions?

[ 26 September 2002, 12:33: Message edited by: FireMike ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Thank's FireMike. I was just thinking about the fate of the moa, that’s all.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Stone, tell us about the moa! is that one of the extinct big birds?

& i've asked Malcolm & Charles for their expertise here, so keep an eye out in case they can offer anything.


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:FireMike, dunno where I got this from, and I certainly I don’t want to offend anyone with my ignorance.

But apparently, moa’s (big flightless birds) used to roam around. Then, people travelled in canoes to New Zealand, and found them good eating and kept eating them to extinction.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:moas, and also the dodo bird, which was also from that general part of the world, too, right?

and this whole Polynesian history question of knalo's that we're also intereste in, Stone, brings up another HoP question for Malcolm or Charles:

have we ever had any/ many Maori Home of Poi members? doesn't seem we have any active now. why not? because most can't afford computers, is the first social answer that may come to mind, based on what we hear in documentaries & movies, but some must be online, and if fire spinning, especially poi, continues to be a real common sport in New Zealand & around it, how come some aren't here among us?

it's like here in Laguna, our local Native American host tribe, the Agachemem, are actually still around. they're here, like most California tribes, crazy, never yet got approved by the US federal government to be on the Bureau of Indian Affairs' "rolls" of official tribes, though they didn't fight against Spanish nor gringo conquerors. so when we have some kinds of regional events, some of us always want to make sure we invite the Agachemem & feel, as our host tribe, our social affairs get especially blessed when they take some lead in it. most people don't know the name Agachemem. . . one of their few public storytellers, my friend Jerry Running Deer, says if you say it right, people will say "gezundheit!" (do non-Americans get this? it means Agachemem sounds like a sneeze, and long-established American slang responds with the old German phrase.) they're better known as "Juanios," "little John's," named for the Mission San Juan Capistrano which they helped build, but that's a name that looks down on them, like calling them kids. Just a few of them are leading the cultural drive to get better recognized among people who live in their land now, and be respected for who they really are, and what they've already given our society.

so surely the Maori & others of Polynesian blood & heritage, in addition to those of newer blood who also share part of their heritage now, have much to offer us in fire spinning? and do Maori spinners today show up among the exceptionally skilled at fire play? can we complete the loop of connecting our Home of Poi community to the ethnic people whom we honor on our websites, in our conversations, and to the public when asked, as the source of this art & discipine in the motherland of fire spinning?

[ 25 September 2002, 18:10: Message edited by: FireMike ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1000
Posted:Where are all the Maori?

Another question "Where are all the violin players on a computer generated techno music website?"
After all they both do music. Or do they?
Maybe one is not doing music according to the other?
Maybe one is not interested in the other form of music?
Maybe they are just too busy doing their own thing?

Remember New Zealand is only some small islands with 3.6 million people. Not everone has a computer and with such beautiful summers we have here only the crazy ones sit in front of an office computer talking about swinging and twirling. All the others are outside doing it for real

Or maybe we all are happy being who we are and swinging and twirling, not wanting to be defined by history or race or by what we swing or how long our string is.

There are so many or places in the world that do forms of swinging. Here in New Zealand we call it poi. Other people have other names for it.

For some history see here.

So many versions out there it can sometimes be difficult to find the truth.


"May your balls always burn"

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:August Member #2 ,

kia ora!

what a beautiful windfall you have poured . . . by link. . . for us!

i don't dare any more ask you directly what you know intrigues me, whether in Home of Poi member Manu Ruka you have introduced us to one of genetic Maori heritage, or one who has absorbed, with such honorable fullness, your Polynesian heritage as part of Manu Raku's own.

presuming Manu Raku's history of poi is a worthy one, as it feels, we shall certainly incorporate it into our own presentation of the history, since Manu Raku warns us that "Most of the so-called histories of poi conveniently leave out references to ancient poi evolution so that the Maori are seen to be the first settlers in New Zealand." this is certainly true of the online, all very brief, "histories" of fire poi offered by any fire arts performers we could find.

Manu Raku's history on the matter is virtually unknown. it is our privilege to help it be appreciated.

Malcolm, Charles, any others who have this lore, you approve, or have an opinion about Manu Raku's historical perspective?

[ 26 September 2002, 12:51: Message edited by: FireMike ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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