Jo
Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 517
Posted:Ok, I'm going to grossly over-simplify some thoughts I've had about style here to illustrate a point so it is all IMHO etc.



I think I have found the best way to explain my feelings that both technical and refinement progression are equally important. It could also encompass a lot of my thoughts in the recent flow/tech/mastery discussions.



Style is subconscious. ubbangel



that could explain the strange personal and social 'style differences' because a move / transition must be practiced a lot before it works its way into your deeper memory.



I would basically define style as 'the sub-conscious expression of consciously learned movements'



any thoughts on this? smile



Jo. weavesmiley

EDITED_BY: Jo (1109702357)


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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:yes. i have a thought. that makes a lot of sense. smile

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:I'd roughly agree with that....I don't think I've ever really thought that hard about it, or tried to really define style. Style just is...and it is distinct for each person.

I will say that while everyone tends to develop their own unique style, they often pick up elements from those they spin around or learn from. Those individual elements, though, do not entirely make up one person's style.

When I first really got into spinning, there was a core group of Houston spinners, and Austin spinners. Each city had it's own overall style, but then the people within each group had their own unique style, as well. The people that spun together had similar elements that distinquished them from the other city.

I think, though, that you can work on your style, consciously. I know I have worked on mine. When I first started spinning, I made a conscious effort to move my feet, and not be a static spinner. I've developed my own style, but I'm trying to add different elements in how I move to this style...and this effort is very concious on my part.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Jo
Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 517
Posted:I'd agree with that edit - Spitfire (sorry!), and thanks FN Fairy! smile



My point though describes the way the concious learning works to improve style (bigger sub-concious vocabulary of movements to create with.... )



Jo. smile

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:What about consciously choosing what style to move in?

I think people often have a "natural" or default style, but you can definitely learn others, from mimicing other spinners to using specific martial arts or dance styles to trying to apply a specific quality of movement to your moves (e.g. smooth+flowing or fast+powerful).

That said, I agree that style has to be relatively internalised and automatic (i.e. subconscious) for it to work smile


monkeys ate my brain

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Ah, I understand, Jo, and would agree with that!

Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:i think it depends what you mean by 'style'. I can mimic and learn but if it's conscious it's always going to be an 'act'. To me, 'style' is that default setting.....

Just cos it's the 'natural/default' one doesn't mean it won't morph and change as you do though.

nice topic smile


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Jo
Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 517
Posted:Mo-seph. Yeah that is deffinitely also true but is encompassed by 'pushing' your vocabulary in a direction and then executing 'concious veto' on non-applicable movements IMHO. smile



Jo. smile

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I think to a very large extent, style would be unconsiously based on the spinner's confidence, in much the same way as people who aren't very confident seem to dance by standing almost in the same spot and moving their arms a bit, compared to more confident people who'll prance about the dancefloor and make it theirs smile

I reckon that people with a low self confidence would tend to let the poi do what they have to while someone with more self confidence will play and dance around alot more when they're spinning.

Also, I think musical taste would have a strong influence - the spinning style of someone who listens to alot of music that'd be played in clubs would probably be quite different to the style of someone whose taste in music lends itself to barging into the pit and leaping around.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:As a self professed non dancer, I can't say I'm all that happy with my "default style" I can feel a certain stiffness in my style that a few non poi spinning dancers have commented on.

But, I believe style can be taught, that's why I've been on about the dance aspect of these arts as of late,,,I want to fix this.

And,,,it's working...I've picked up quite a few words of wisdom from these forums, my balance is getting better,,,the stiffness is lessening and I can attribute most of my improvements to attitude. I used to think 3 or 4 "moves" ahead which caused me to rush what I was currently doing i.e. if I was spinning a windmill,,I really wanted to be spinning a butterfly, as a result my windmill suffered, I just wanted to get it done.

I've abandoned that style now, in favour of a slower,, live for the moment attitude but it's not in my subconscious,,,,yet


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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:I don't think style can be taught, but it can be learned.

Confusing?

You can and will absorb portions of other people's style when you watch them, and apply it to your own spinning, that is, if you like it(in most cases). This is done both concious and subconciously.

That is, you can make a concious effort to change how you spin, but it takes awhile to be taken in by your subconcious. Your style changes and grows as your personality changes and grows.

Style is how you live your life and the very way you present yourself. Changing your own personal style is changing the very way you think.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:well, our bodies are all a little different too. some people for instance aren't as flexible as others, thus making btb stuff very different, even when learned from the same source and same place. People are constructed of different muscle types and sizes and bone structure. Then there is also personality, which shows through as style. angry fast spin or slow sensual spin, etc.

And then there are the people who can spin in any style they choose, but that is something that takes a lot of time and practice (I think).


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Most jugglers manipulators and Poi spinners have little or poor style.

Sadly this is because they have had no training,
And have never become aware that this is an important detail in all manipulation and dance

Style can be taught, style can be learnt smile
Style can be concioulsly changed,
often but not always this requires a lot of training.
For example i could change my spinning style completely by changing my mental attitude, for example pretending to be frightened.

Most (good/pro) dancers will dance in a different style to every different type of music.
Like dan says, Poi can be spun in many styles.
Some of them are funny, some are ugly, some are beautiful, some are sexy

Once again, I'm agreeing with Moseph


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Jo
Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 517
Posted:Dantana:

Our bodies are different for sure, but ever since conception our brain has formed to control our own unique bodies so that 'style' will be inherent and unique in everybody. Nice idea man.

Glass:

Not sure if you saw my explanation for 'concious style changability':

"Mo-seph. Yeah that is deffinitely also true but is encompassed by 'pushing' your vocabulary in a direction and then executing 'concious veto' on non-applicable movements IMHO."

I'll expand on that a little because I do agree for sure that the conscious mind can control 'style' like above.

I feel a similar principal could be applied to 'learning' style. You see a move or concieve a move that you consider to be stylish, practice it loads until that is part of your subconscious self, then find another move...

This means you can consciously allocate 'banks' of movements for different styles, all other movements will be veto'd by the concious 'style setting' imo.

Jo. smile


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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Two hours of spinning last night,,,,without the poi.

Interestingly, I found myself doing more plant the foot and turning,, rather than pivoting,,,meaning my feet ended up ( more often than not ) where I wanted them, and pointing in the direction that I wanted them to.

I got the foot sweep thing happening, as well as the sliding forward and backwards motions too. But I can't say I've learned anything "new" these are all motions I learned in the dojo 20 years ago, I've never really applied them to poi spinning.

It'll be interesting to see what happens tonight when I try them out with poi.


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alvheid
alvheid

fairy of light
Location: Bergen, Norway
Member Since: 27th Dec 2004
Total posts: 163
Posted:Written by: Jo

I would basically define style as 'the sub-conscious expression of consciously learned movements'

any thoughts on this? smile




agree! smile this is a great definition I'll remember and use whenever I can, I've had the same thoughts myself but never been able to express them so people really can understand.. now I can biggrin ubbrollsmile


Luke sum ipse patrem te.

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