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Forums > Social Chat > September 11-Current Poll?
Login/Join to ParticipatePosted:What exactly is meant by the current poll?
"will you be performing these arts on Sept. 11" ???
Is this asking me weather I will refrain from spinning my Poi that day out of respect?
...or what?
"will you be performing these arts on Sept. 11" ???
Is this asking me weather I will refrain from spinning my Poi that day out of respect?
...or what?
Az abouve, So below...
Delete Topic
Posted:I think for a lot of America the impact of September 11th is so strong because it's the day that the US perspective changed. The US became the victim and the general public had an alien, outside world forced upon them. Whether or not that perspective change has been used for benefit or harm is another debate.
Another bit of perspective here. Conservative estimates reckon that every day at least 3200 people die in armed conflict across the globe. That's a 9/11 every day of the year, 365 days a year. Across the globe (including the US) tens of thousands people die each day through lack of clean water, food, medical treatment and shelter. I'm not saying this to try to lessen the loss in the US on 9/11, but to point out that on the grand scheme of things 9/11 was just another day. It's what is said and done afterwards in it's name that will be judged by history.
Oh, I really hope that raghead comment was a joke. If so it was a crap one anyway.
[ 05 September 2002, 21:57: Message edited by: Dom ]
Another bit of perspective here. Conservative estimates reckon that every day at least 3200 people die in armed conflict across the globe. That's a 9/11 every day of the year, 365 days a year. Across the globe (including the US) tens of thousands people die each day through lack of clean water, food, medical treatment and shelter. I'm not saying this to try to lessen the loss in the US on 9/11, but to point out that on the grand scheme of things 9/11 was just another day. It's what is said and done afterwards in it's name that will be judged by history.
Oh, I really hope that raghead comment was a joke. If so it was a crap one anyway.
[ 05 September 2002, 21:57: Message edited by: Dom ]
Delete
Posted:In Japan they wear white at funerals not black because they believe that the funeral should not be a mournfull occasion, it shoud be a joyous occasion to remember all the things that the particular person in question did during their life.
(Mind you, the Buddhist Japanese believe in the afterlife so it's not such a bad thing because the loved ones have only left this life for the next, not left life altogether).
DFQ has got it right, spinning should be a mark of respect and the flames can even symbolise the brighness of life extinguished before their time.
(Mind you, the Buddhist Japanese believe in the afterlife so it's not such a bad thing because the loved ones have only left this life for the next, not left life altogether).
DFQ has got it right, spinning should be a mark of respect and the flames can even symbolise the brighness of life extinguished before their time.
whats up with all the limitations?
DeletePosted:quote:Personally I believe if anyone who thinks it's disrespectful to have fun on Sept 11th the sometimes painful fact is that life goes on and the living need to keep living. There's better ways to live life and create something positive from loss than sulking and being miserable i agree with you on this one dom. personally if i were killed i wouldnt want the people i love to make things more diffacult for themselves and change there lives around because some ass flew a plane into me.. however if i was in new york i would tone it down and go with the general vibe there. you dont want to be having fun right in front of someone who is having a hard time dealing with there loss. in all fairness it did just happen a year ago. thats not somthin you get over quickley. i love my country and feel great sorrow for there loss but we cant let it break our spirits thats what those cowards want.
onward and upward!!
onward and upward!!
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
DeletePosted:werd
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
DeletePosted:Yeah, I try to spin everyday. I think i will that day too.
Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...
DeleteDoc Lightning
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GOLD Member since May 2001
HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Total posts: 13922
Posted:quote:Originally posted by FieryFlow:
Oh!!
Here's another question for you..
Do you show as much remorse and sadness over the 4000 deaths of 9-11 as you do for the millions of deaths in WW1 on 11-11 (memorial day)?
The difference is I was alive on September 11, 2001.
Oh, and when I went to the Pearl Harbor memorial in Hawaii, I added a teardrop to the Pacific. I also left a few teardrops at the Vietnam Memorial.
But I cannot spend my life crying over the dead. Everyone dies. Not everyone dies in bed at an old age after a full life. Life sucks that way. And war happens. Soldiers die. Even our own Ray and Pozee put their lives on the line in ther work.
But my brother had an appointment on the 92nd floor of WTC 2 at 1:30 on September 11, 2001. He was running in Central Park at the time of the attack. He didn't die, of course, but only because of sheer dumb luck. See, the appointment had originally been scheduled for 9:45, so he would have been there had it not been pushed back a few weeks before. He's just an author. He's not a combatant. He's a father of two.
The difference is the loss of civilian life. It was a massacre, just like the pogroms of the Nazis, just like the Tutsis and the Hutus, just like the Serbs and Bosnians. And I'm no more outraged at Sept. 11 than I am at any of those atrocities.
[ 07 September 2002, 04:59: Message edited by: MikeGinny ]
Oh!!
Here's another question for you..
Do you show as much remorse and sadness over the 4000 deaths of 9-11 as you do for the millions of deaths in WW1 on 11-11 (memorial day)?
The difference is I was alive on September 11, 2001.
Oh, and when I went to the Pearl Harbor memorial in Hawaii, I added a teardrop to the Pacific. I also left a few teardrops at the Vietnam Memorial.
But I cannot spend my life crying over the dead. Everyone dies. Not everyone dies in bed at an old age after a full life. Life sucks that way. And war happens. Soldiers die. Even our own Ray and Pozee put their lives on the line in ther work.
But my brother had an appointment on the 92nd floor of WTC 2 at 1:30 on September 11, 2001. He was running in Central Park at the time of the attack. He didn't die, of course, but only because of sheer dumb luck. See, the appointment had originally been scheduled for 9:45, so he would have been there had it not been pushed back a few weeks before. He's just an author. He's not a combatant. He's a father of two.
The difference is the loss of civilian life. It was a massacre, just like the pogroms of the Nazis, just like the Tutsis and the Hutus, just like the Serbs and Bosnians. And I'm no more outraged at Sept. 11 than I am at any of those atrocities.
[ 07 September 2002, 04:59: Message edited by: MikeGinny ]
-Mike )'(
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Rozi
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Total posts: 2996
Posted:I think with both events, after the initial shock, it is often quite difficult for us to comprehend the scale of lost life. For someone who lost a friend or family member, they are left with a gaping hole in their lives. For most of us, who are distant from the event, we find it difficult to understand the deaths of a group of people we never knew. We really have to force ourselves to think about it to understand, and because most of us tend towards happy thoughts, it is twice as hard to think about something so awful.
I think it is important to have these days, to concentrate people's thoughts on the reality of it. And people are going to have a lot of different responses and work through the thought in a lot of ways.
As we get further away in time from 9/11, it is going to be more difficult to comprehend. Just as WWI & WWII is quite difficult for us to comprehend, coming in generations after, this is going to be very hard for our children to comprehend. Should we strive to keep alive the feeling of immediate impact that we have about this event, the feeling of the impact on individuals? Or should the message be allowed to change and evolve so that it becomes a broader message about the impact on a culture?
I think it is important to have these days, to concentrate people's thoughts on the reality of it. And people are going to have a lot of different responses and work through the thought in a lot of ways.
As we get further away in time from 9/11, it is going to be more difficult to comprehend. Just as WWI & WWII is quite difficult for us to comprehend, coming in generations after, this is going to be very hard for our children to comprehend. Should we strive to keep alive the feeling of immediate impact that we have about this event, the feeling of the impact on individuals? Or should the message be allowed to change and evolve so that it becomes a broader message about the impact on a culture?
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
Posted:dom it was a joke,sheesh ,I have said it before and i will say it again,I am an asshole by nature not by choice,if I offend I do not mean to,I say what I think not think what I say.....yea I think thats right.Anyways I apologize once again,and please dont pay attention to my ramblings if they offend.
I should just apologize in my sig so I wont have to everytime I am an asshole accidentally.
Btw I think flying a plane into a big building killing 4000 of my fellow americans is crap.
I think a bad joke is the least I can do.if you arent taliban associated then you shouldnt be offended.
[ 06 September 2002, 19:37: Message edited by: vaperloc ]
I should just apologize in my sig so I wont have to everytime I am an asshole accidentally.
Btw I think flying a plane into a big building killing 4000 of my fellow americans is crap.
I think a bad joke is the least I can do.if you arent taliban associated then you shouldnt be offended.
[ 06 September 2002, 19:37: Message edited by: vaperloc ]
There are no obstacles only challenges.
Very funny scotty now beam down my pants.
[colour."green"}What would willie do?
AHH theres too many wee leprechauns i cannae squash them all
Posted:ok, i saw this thread too now, just before i log off and go back to being sick as a dog.
sounds like there was a poll to see if firetoys would be dimmed out of respect? something like that?
as y'all know, we're taking a positive stance with a burn in honor of the event, on 9/12. anyone else, vaperloc, etc., want to stand with us on that, please step up to our thread Any Americans gonna join us for 9/11?
anyone with a different perspective, hey we respect y'all, this is big stuff in America's living history
[ 07 September 2002, 06:15: Message edited by: FireMike ]
sounds like there was a poll to see if firetoys would be dimmed out of respect? something like that?
as y'all know, we're taking a positive stance with a burn in honor of the event, on 9/12. anyone else, vaperloc, etc., want to stand with us on that, please step up to our thread Any Americans gonna join us for 9/11?
anyone with a different perspective, hey we respect y'all, this is big stuff in America's living history
[ 07 September 2002, 06:15: Message edited by: FireMike ]
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
Posted:Dom, 3200 people dieing globally every day is a tragedy however, 4000 people dieing at once in two buildings in less than a mile radius is felt alot harder because of the instant, in your face grandness of it. I can handle car accidents etc without a tear. I have a real hard time with 4000 souls screaming for help from the same place simultaneously. That number equates to killing everyone in my hometown 3 times at once, in that respect I feel it harder. Yes millions of people die everyday, of stupid reasons, of natural causes, and just because but I didn't watch that on tv or have it thrown in my face for months after as a constant reminder of who I lost.
Refraining from something on Sept 11th isn't a US ego thing, and I am almost insulted it is being brought up as such. It is taking the time to remember loved ones, since many of us lost someone there. It's the same as laying a rose on someone's grave in my opinion. No one is asking people not to do stuff, it is just personal choice how you show respect.
I think one of the strangest things of this debate is that twirling has nothing to do with Sept 11th, but fire did. Fire is what killed most of the people in the buildings, and yet we light candles in memorium and are talking about lighting up in honor of the dead. Anyone else see anything ironic about that? I mean, I would never think to do that for a burn victim....
I won't be spinning because I physically can't, but I probably wouldn't anyway. I believe whole heartedly in wakes (the parties for the dead), because I know they went some place better, so I will celebrate that. A wake and a moment of silence seem adequate for me.
My .02
Refraining from something on Sept 11th isn't a US ego thing, and I am almost insulted it is being brought up as such. It is taking the time to remember loved ones, since many of us lost someone there. It's the same as laying a rose on someone's grave in my opinion. No one is asking people not to do stuff, it is just personal choice how you show respect.
I think one of the strangest things of this debate is that twirling has nothing to do with Sept 11th, but fire did. Fire is what killed most of the people in the buildings, and yet we light candles in memorium and are talking about lighting up in honor of the dead. Anyone else see anything ironic about that? I mean, I would never think to do that for a burn victim....
I won't be spinning because I physically can't, but I probably wouldn't anyway. I believe whole heartedly in wakes (the parties for the dead), because I know they went some place better, so I will celebrate that. A wake and a moment of silence seem adequate for me.
My .02
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Posted:quote:I think any group spin might benefit from a moment of silence and togetherness before and/or after the spin.
I see the moment of silence as a symbol of sadness, paying respect to those we lost, and a promise to never forget.
But I see the spinning as a symbol of our resolve to triumph over these evil acts, to pick ourselves up, and to press onwards. I also see it as a celebration of life. It's a great day to look inwards and realize how lucky we are to be alive.
Yes, keep it somber, keep it respectful, and definately keep it sober. But remember the lesson of the phoenix.Right on Mike! We're on the same page.
*goes back to decompressing*
I see the moment of silence as a symbol of sadness, paying respect to those we lost, and a promise to never forget.
But I see the spinning as a symbol of our resolve to triumph over these evil acts, to pick ourselves up, and to press onwards. I also see it as a celebration of life. It's a great day to look inwards and realize how lucky we are to be alive.
Yes, keep it somber, keep it respectful, and definately keep it sober. But remember the lesson of the phoenix.Right on Mike! We're on the same page.
*goes back to decompressing*
"Dancing can reveal all the mystery that music conceals"
~Charles Baudelaire
Posted:How about all the people dying of AIDS, starvational, poor sanitation not to mention the people who lives are destroyed by IMF and WTO "investments". The average life expectantcy of people in Africa is meant to drop to 38 pretty soon.
These things bring tears to my eyes,the fact that that Bill Gates motherfucker could end third world poverty and pestilence with a few days interest from his giant pile of cash.
If you listen hard enough you can hear the wealthy powerfull's west big fat belly slapping agaist the undernourished boney back of the third world.
These things bring tears to my eyes,the fact that that Bill Gates motherfucker could end third world poverty and pestilence with a few days interest from his giant pile of cash.
If you listen hard enough you can hear the wealthy powerfull's west big fat belly slapping agaist the undernourished boney back of the third world.
The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer-- they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer.-- Ken Kesey
DeletePosted:thank you pele, those were vey kind and understanding words. they made me think back to when it first happened, i havent done that in a long time. i had just got home from taking my girlfriend to work. i flipped on the tv and watched frozen in slow motion the footage of the 2nd plane flying into the tower. i didnt know those people but my heart hit the floor and i was frozen for what seemed like forever. just staring at it happening over and over. i remember trying to think it was some new movie they were showing behind the scenes footage for , but my heart could feel that it was real and i just watched thousands of lives wiped out forever. it hurt so bad and it hurt every one in america and im sure everyone in the world. its probably the most horrifying thing i have ever seen.. people cope with this pain in all different ways but it has nothing to do with our egos.
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
DeletePosted:quote: How about all the people dying of AIDS, starvational, poor sanitation not to mention the people who lives are destroyed by IMF and WTO "investments". The average life expectantcy of people in Africa is meant to drop to 38 pretty soon.
These things bring tears to my eyes,the fact that that Bill Gates motherfucker could end third world poverty and pestilence with a few days interest from his giant pile of cash.
If you listen hard enough you can hear the wealthy powerfull's west big fat belly slapping agaist the undernourished boney back of the third world.
what the hell does that have to do with this thread you fool. i think there are about a million aids foundations and days that we recognize people who have died of aids. thats a completely different thing. everyone suffers from aids its not an attack on a nation its a disease you tard. we were viciously attacked for being americans. as far as africas extreme aids epidemic goes. well ya thats real sad. the whole world tries to help them but there own goverments arnt doing anything about the problem. its not americas fault they have an aids epedemic. please dont even get me started about there starvation. americans more then anyone else have tried to supply food for the people of africa. guess what happens when we bring them food. warlords attack us and there own people and steal the food. i do feel for those people but theres no reason to point fingers at us like we dont have anything to be sad about... you ass!!
These things bring tears to my eyes,the fact that that Bill Gates motherfucker could end third world poverty and pestilence with a few days interest from his giant pile of cash.
If you listen hard enough you can hear the wealthy powerfull's west big fat belly slapping agaist the undernourished boney back of the third world.
what the hell does that have to do with this thread you fool. i think there are about a million aids foundations and days that we recognize people who have died of aids. thats a completely different thing. everyone suffers from aids its not an attack on a nation its a disease you tard. we were viciously attacked for being americans. as far as africas extreme aids epidemic goes. well ya thats real sad. the whole world tries to help them but there own goverments arnt doing anything about the problem. its not americas fault they have an aids epedemic. please dont even get me started about there starvation. americans more then anyone else have tried to supply food for the people of africa. guess what happens when we bring them food. warlords attack us and there own people and steal the food. i do feel for those people but theres no reason to point fingers at us like we dont have anything to be sad about... you ass!!
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
DeleteRozi
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Posted:Come off it!!! Lets stop playing these "more tragic than thou" games, guys. This is not the time nor the place.
Right now is the time to acknowledge the tragic deaths of those who died in the World Trade Centre and in the Pentagon on Sept 11. Right now is the time to give those who need to the space to mourn those people.
It is not the time to attribute blame. It is not the time to haggle over why it happened. And it is certainly not the time to diminish anyone's right to mourn.
We can discuss at another time the whys and wherefores of what happened. But it is the height of insensitivity, to say to anyone who is mourning (whether it be for these people, or for those who have died of AIDS in Africa, or for anyone anywhere) that they have no right to cry as others have it worse. This is no way to encourage peace and understanding in this world.
Right now is the time to acknowledge the tragic deaths of those who died in the World Trade Centre and in the Pentagon on Sept 11. Right now is the time to give those who need to the space to mourn those people.
It is not the time to attribute blame. It is not the time to haggle over why it happened. And it is certainly not the time to diminish anyone's right to mourn.
We can discuss at another time the whys and wherefores of what happened. But it is the height of insensitivity, to say to anyone who is mourning (whether it be for these people, or for those who have died of AIDS in Africa, or for anyone anywhere) that they have no right to cry as others have it worse. This is no way to encourage peace and understanding in this world.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
Posted:As an aside to this thread I'm curious what tv programming is going to happen in other countries (myself being in Australia).
I find it somewhat disconcerting that one of our free to air channels is "promising" 20 hours of 9-11 programming on the 11th. Now there are some shows advertising "never before seen footage".
I find it all a little macabre (not to mention typical of the society we have become) that tv stations are cashing in (ratings wise) by trying to show these poor souls dying from new angles, with more up close footage or watching the horror on peoples faces trying to scramble from these tragic crashes.
I genuinely curious as to what US (or other countries) tv channels are planning. I'm willing to tip for the more 'prime time' specials there will be plenty of advertising. I'd be curious to see what premiums are added (like super bowl ad costs for example).
Anyone willing to comment?
I find it somewhat disconcerting that one of our free to air channels is "promising" 20 hours of 9-11 programming on the 11th. Now there are some shows advertising "never before seen footage".
I find it all a little macabre (not to mention typical of the society we have become) that tv stations are cashing in (ratings wise) by trying to show these poor souls dying from new angles, with more up close footage or watching the horror on peoples faces trying to scramble from these tragic crashes.
I genuinely curious as to what US (or other countries) tv channels are planning. I'm willing to tip for the more 'prime time' specials there will be plenty of advertising. I'd be curious to see what premiums are added (like super bowl ad costs for example).
Anyone willing to comment?
Delete
Posted:I don't know what will be happening in other countries on TV but for the next few days there are a few programmes of rememberance and a few talking to people who have been affected by 9-11 but not as much as I thought there was going to be. I think that there needs to be some kind of coverage to mark the occasion but I think that there can be too much. I'm sure the papers will be full of articles relating to it for the next week. Personally I think it is better to let everyone remember in their own way rather than having tons of media coverage telling us how we should feel.
Delete
Posted:Right on Rozi!
You little star. Tis so true, we shouldn't be arguing over something like this. Enough of the self-importance..
It's comin up tomorrow, so wherever you are, and however it may have effected you, just try and remember the good we can accomplish by staying positive...
Hugz to all xx
You little star. Tis so true, we shouldn't be arguing over something like this. Enough of the self-importance..
It's comin up tomorrow, so wherever you are, and however it may have effected you, just try and remember the good we can accomplish by staying positive...
Hugz to all xx
Az abouve, So below...
DeletePosted:I completely agree with what Allie posted about letting everyone mourn in their own way.
I don't see spinning as an act which is inherently disrespectful. Naturally its easy to create scenarios where it would be, but thats more the situation which is inappropriate than the spinning itself.
A native New Yorker myself, I was here in Paris last year and felt a kind of guilt at not being home in NYC...as though my being there would somehow help the city.
Tomorrow is the first training session of the year at my fencing club. I will be there working hard to improve myself. It is likely that I will spin my Practice Poi in the afternoon sometime because I am hooked on it.
2 people I knew didn't survive 9/11, but I say that as an FYI and not to get pity.
Life should be celebrated everyday. Not just when one is reminded of how fragile it is, not when its someone's birthday, not just when its convenient, or a holiday, but every single day.
Enjoy the short time we have together and show those who matter to you that they DO matter to you.
Just my 2 cents.
Raphael
I don't see spinning as an act which is inherently disrespectful. Naturally its easy to create scenarios where it would be, but thats more the situation which is inappropriate than the spinning itself.
A native New Yorker myself, I was here in Paris last year and felt a kind of guilt at not being home in NYC...as though my being there would somehow help the city.
Tomorrow is the first training session of the year at my fencing club. I will be there working hard to improve myself. It is likely that I will spin my Practice Poi in the afternoon sometime because I am hooked on it.
2 people I knew didn't survive 9/11, but I say that as an FYI and not to get pity.
Life should be celebrated everyday. Not just when one is reminded of how fragile it is, not when its someone's birthday, not just when its convenient, or a holiday, but every single day.
Enjoy the short time we have together and show those who matter to you that they DO matter to you.
Just my 2 cents.
Raphael
Delete
Posted:Would you commemorate the death of a burn victim by twirling fire? Those people died by fire, specificaly "jet fuel". It doesn't sound so good from that perspective does it?
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
DeletePosted:I've got to get off this thread before I start frickin crying...again.
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
DeleteRozi
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Posted:santanatwo, , I wish I had words to say that would make it better.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
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