[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:yo,

this came out of the anti-spun buzzsaw discussion.

the idea is that you can still anti-spin even if you are only doing one circle perarm circle.

the mecanics.

poi going counter clockwise in wall plane.

1: poi points down, hand is up

2: poi points right, hand is right

3: poi points up, hand is down

4: poi points left, hand is left

and back to the start.

ramifications.

should apply to all sorts of single circle moves, like butterfly and longarm.

because the poi can be pointed in wards either at the top and bottom or at the sides you can conceivably have i arm doing each in longarm, should make a really wacy trail....

Icon seems to know lots about this, tho hasnt posted it, but maybe he can add some stuff now?

T wave


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:to cut and past straight from that discussion:



nix.. again the problem that I have with what you are doing.. you are changing to multiple centers of spin.. because in order to antispin from the single center of spin AT that point.. your arm must rotate, not just your hand...

thus arm up poi down; arm left poi left; arm down poi up; arm right poi right..



in your description if the arm isnt in said position, then your switching to a two center of spin... like I was saying before.. where you have one center of spin for the poi moving forward and one center of spin at the wrist moving backwards.. which again I said was the key to antispin... think about everything else that antispins.. its always poi forward, arms backward.. ie. where poi meets hand going forward, and shoulders as the center going backwards..



I told you this last night but you refused to hear it.. its the basic premise of how antispin works.. because you can't antispin a single center of rotation.. which is why you can't antispin a buzzsaw... nor longarm stuff for that matter.. your antispinning of a single longarm circle is like antispinning your hand while rotating your wrist.. your still mvoing further down to add another center of rotation.. hence why you couldn't antispin a longarm weave where there is one center of rotation (between the shoulder blades.)



to add:



this means there is no ramifications.. your constantly adding to the cricle tyo make the circle longer to get the extra center of spin.. which provides an almost negligible change.. sure you can rotate points close togehter.. like wrist versus hand, or whoel shoulder vs shoulder socket.. but what you are doing is basically moving the length to a bit longer so that you can cut it short.. same things can be done with my handles and my hand.. where I can rotate a pivot and thus accomplish 3 centers between poi and hand.,.



its not as ground breaking as you kept making it out to be.. and infact is why I've said mulitiple times that antispin is in the wrists.. these extra uses of rotation (grantednot the longarm its not as useful) have been used a LOT before..



again.. all of this I said last night but you didnt want to hear.. because you though I was talking baout something else.. maybe next time you'll give me time.. shrug


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:to me, these sound like a longarm version of 'waterfall' or 'pop-out' isolations.

i'd like to see them...

all this thinking about antispin is turning my brain into a spirograph ubbrollsmile


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

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Posted:okok,

two centres of spin right? one at the shoulder and one at the hand.

but. (a great sentance!) the trail of the poi head makes a figure eight arond a central point, your shoulder, the same point the arm is moving from.

this is a purly semantic argument, what im doing is making longarm motions with an anti-spun poi. accept that? of course the rotation chages at the hand, thats anti-spin, as you said.

but this is pointless discussion, none of it actually changes the dynamics of what im doing, Id be far more intrested (and i think others would to) to hear about any variations on this concept.

T wave


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:I'd love to help you there nix... but if you have 'longarm' (ie poihead to shoulder straight line) then how do you get antispinning poi, since the poi in longarm is poi head to shoulder. Any disjuncting would no longer be longarm but rather an extension, like with lockouts and flowers.. unless you meant for the longarm poi to be antispinning.. whihc would mean your arm + poi would be moving contra to the direction you move the shoulder socket motion.. whihc is like antispinning a poi my rotating the hand backwards at the wrist?

do you see what I'm getting at.. I mean when you do normal antispin it antipsins because your shoulder (and thus your arm) goes one way the poi (at the hand out)goes the other.. longarm version of these requires something further into the body to rotate opposite the poi+arm.. whihc leaves rotating the shoulder socket.. that's all..


could you please clear that up.. then maybe I can be of some help


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:ill clear it up

you have a super narrow definition of longarm, review the word to mean "any move where the arms are at full extension" and all your problems are solved.

T wave


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:but see that kinda causes more problems..



if i do an antispun longarm circle, I could either be doing a a circle where my arm is extended while my poi spin backwards (like an antispin flower) or I could be refering to my arm extended with my poi, and thus my shoudlers being the center of the contra spin....





your definition is confusing... because it makes it impossible to know what you mean..



what is your definition for spinning an arm fully extended where the arm becomes an extension on the string and thus one long cohesive unit.. (that's how I've understood longarm.. but we all know I don't know what I'm on about..


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:i call that longarm, or base longarm.

its not really confusing, only if you over-analyise it. if normal longarm has the poi straight from the arm, then antispin longarm must logically have the arm still straight but with the poi spinning the other way. its not possible to anti-spin between the arm and the shoulder, but even if it was id call it longarm with anti-spin body movement. antispin logarm instantly defines the arm position (straight circles) and the poi position (counter circles) anti-spin is a modifier of the term longarm, so modify accordingly.

jeeze, im not going to respond to anything else which is not a suggestion for how to apply this technique.

T wave


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

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Posted:i mean, you dont go around saying bf weave is called wrong, even tho its not a butterfly (single rotation point) and dosnt actually weave (it ttns) but what we get is weave motions in butterfly direction, which is perfectly understood by the term butterfly weave. dont you think your getting a touch anal about terminology?

T wave

oh and if your going to write back arguing that the butterfly weave is an acurate term cos it does weave, or that butterfly is a family name or anything else, forget it.


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:well I was.. because it does weave.. ttn'ing is a bit different.. which is why bf weave has antispin..

as far as the other goes.. thats why i've distinguished between (to avoid this term) giant and extension.. extension is what you use in you antispin flower.. whihc is what you describe here as longarm antispin.. giant refers to the center of rotation at the shoulder.. meaning there is no other center of rotation furtehr down the arm.. (including at the poi) because the center of rotation -for the poi- is the shoudler.. how is that.. and twhat I was saying is that with the center of trotation -Of the poi- at the shoulder.. you can only antispin be rotating the shoulder socket.. (like the hand vs the poi in a normal antispin circle)

also read the other thread.. are we getting onto topic?


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:not yet

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simian


simian

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Posted:deleted cos i realised i was talking wubbish... redface
EDITED_BY: simian (1099872671)


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Analemma


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Posted:Rev: I PM you smile

NX: Try it isolated "isolated single circle anti-spin" (2 in one hand and you get an isolated one handed butterfly) . . . smile

cheers

andy


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Analemma


Analemma

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Posted:Isolated antispin is nice in general ubblove . . . but not easy tongue

peace


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

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Posted:Ooo... I think I'll give that a go for a while and see what comes of it. - thnx!

-v-

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:Written by: PoiBoxII


Rev: I PM you smile

andy





I don't have a pm here.. I havent checked spherc yet.. prolly should have pm'd this.. ahh well.. wink



edit:

oh and hey.. I can't chekc my spherc pms... spherc crashedno sooner then I went to my pms and now that its back up its giving me stupid errors over login times.. so I can't chekc the forum or pms.. frown

EDITED_BY: Rev (1099962684)


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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

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Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Total posts: 380
Posted:ooh, this is weird.



Written by: [Nx?
]

the idea is that you can still anti-spin even if you are only doing one circle perarm circle.



the mecanics.



poi going counter clockwise in wall plane.



1: poi points down, hand is up



2: poi points right, hand is right



3: poi points up, hand is down



4: poi points left, hand is left



and back to the start.

[...]

T wave





who's tried this one in one beat?? it's 90 degrees off ^^ that ^^ one.



1 - poi points down, hand is down

2 - poi points right, hand is left

3 - poi points up, hand is up

4 - poi points left, hand is right



2 foci = eliptical, right? i have no clue what this might be useful for. there's too much poi to explore sometimes!!



-- dut


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

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Posted:yeah, i recon its gonna get really pretty when one hand does the first version (i described) and the other hand does the second (you described) However this is all gonna remain theory for a while cos I got bigger fish to fry.

T wave


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