The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Ok, I need as much insite on this as possible. First of let explain were this, and I, am comeing from. The other day i put something up on the board, long story short it got off topic and out of hand (smiling burns if you read it). Now the problem was a couple of pics, and the jokes they made. The jokes were (pic of richard simmons : caption: you just set off the gay alarm.......pic of a handicapt child : caption : argueing on the internet is like running a race in the special olympics, no matter who wins you're still retarded)....now I'm saying this up front, I AM NOT A BIGGOT OR A RACEIST, hell I'm not a negative person in any way..........Now in all honesty, YES I can see were this can offend, but, why? My group of friends is made up off all dif people, of all dif backgrounds, race, religion, and gender. I come from a cuban family (my grandfather came over on a boat) I have 2 people in my family with mental handicaps (down syndrom and autisim). Now, my circle joke about EVERYTHING from politics to religion to race, because we all come from dif walks of life. Also i was raised to laugh at the world......so my question, Why is it that certin topics have become taboo to joke about publicly, when I'd say at least 80% of us joke about it in private? Has everyone become so P.C. (politicly correct) that we can no longer takes jokes as jokes, and have to turn them into these HUGE debates over why its wrong?.........Please respond, and think about your answer, don't just put yes or no, I would like reasons to support your side. And remember there is no right or wrong here, its a SOCIAL DISCUSSION..........and if this turns into what smiling burns turned into, I'll have this deleted aslo......thank you for your time in reading/responding to this.......F>F confused pardon all mis-spellings I'm dislexic wink



p.s. it also acurred to me that at least one of the people that complained about the post watched the t.v. show South Park wich offends EVERYONE..........which would make them hypocrites......


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:i read your post, and i think that if you genuinely don't understand why some people were offended then you need to do some serious thinking.

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:i was very offended by your posts.

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:YOU WERE THE ONE THAT POSTED THE RICHARD SIMMONS PIC MORRON.............me and this dweeb hang out on the weekends

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:dweeb is very offensive to me. could you please stop being a bigot and not use that language.

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:I am a disabled person (I have M.E.) and I work in a supported disabled workshop. The people working there have a whole range of disabilities from deafness through to severe epilepsy. We joke and laugh all the time. We joke about each others disabilities and the problems they throw up in life and take no offence. If a non disabled person were to tell the same jokes I think many of us would find it offensive. I think it all has to do with context. On the net it is very hard to tell who is making the joke and to what ends. The perception and context disappear. I wouldn't claim to be PC at all, because that would imply that I behave in the way I do because someone else tells me to. I try to treat people as I wish them to treat me.

This is a forum open to all to read and what one person might not find offensive in the least may cut someone else to the quick. When groups of people get to know each other well they often have "in jokes" between them that outsiders are not privy to. Sometimes the "in jokes" can look to outsiders as aggressive attacks. On an open Forum as this is "in jokes" ,that may have been typed up with no malicious intent at all, can be perceived as out and out attacks by someone not in the know.

I, as a disabled person, do find this statement offensive

"arguing on the internet is like running a race in the special Olympics, no matter who wins you're still retarded"

Sorry if that makes you think I have no sense of humour, but I think that statment is degrading to a whole lot of people.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:Personal perogative - one person may not mind you joking about their own disability, or disability in general, for example, while another may do. These issues aren't taboo, but that doesn't mean that those affected by them are "public property" and thus must endure jokes they don't find funny.

I don't think it's true that "80% of us joke about it in private". It may be so within your social circle, but that doesn't mean it's the case for everyone. It's worth bearing that in mind before posting.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: Fryed Fish


Now in all honesty, YES I can see were this can offend, but, why?





bottom line - if you can see that someone may be upset by what you are posting don't post it.





having said that, you saw fit to turn this into a "HUGE debate over why its wrong" so i'll give you my opinion:



the problem is the difference between public and private.



you assume that because you and your friends are comfortable enough to joke about these issues, that everyone is.



put yourself in the place of someone who has recently had a family member diagnosed with a mental illness or imagine you are someone that is having problems coming to terms with being gay.



this forum is (or at least used to be) a place where if you had problems or upsets in your life, you could ask for honest, frank opinions on how to deal with them best.



if there are other people on the board making jokes based on ones's sexual orientation or disabilities do you think that will encourage them to look for support here?



i can see where you're coming from but you are in the wrong.



you have to be in a circle of friends that you know are not going to be adversely affected by jokes of that nature if you want to use them - on a public forum with over 9000 members you can never know that everyone is in a place in their lives where they can laugh.



respect the words 'time and a place'.





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Ok Tao : i CAN see why they would get offended, but what I was haveing trouble with was people understanding they're jokes

Spanner :I do realize not everyone makes jokes in their inner circles, maby i should have been more spacific, i meant 80% of us have at least once, not all the time, hope that's a little more clear........

now i think Skul's post is what i am looking for, notice how he in no way made it seem like there is right and wrong here, just gave me an explination. no one is right in this, and at the same time no one is DIRECTLY wrong......we all have dif ideas and views on this, so. lets keep it gong shall we........


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:When a disabled person tells a joke about disabled people, they are laughing at themselves, but when a non-disabled person tells a joke about disabled people, they are laughing AT the disabled people.

Think about it. It's one thing to laugh at yourself, but another thing entirely to have others laugh at you.

I'm gay, and I can laugh at jokes about homosexuality to a point, but there is a point where it gets offensive.

Some would say you, as a non <insert adjective here> person, have not earned the right to tell such jokes because you haven't walked a mile in their shoes, and odn't understand what it means to be disabled, gay, or other minority.

Skuld brings up a good point...what might be funny to you may be offensive to others, and you have to think about that....perhaps putting yourself in their shoes might help. Think about how you would feel if people were making fun of what made you different. Perhaps you don't get easily offended, but others do.

It is less about PC-ness and more about common courtesy.

Yes, you may have friends from various backgrounds, but you aren't disabled, or gay, etc. You don't know what it is to be disabled, gay or a minority. You don't know what it is we have to live with from the rest of society. You telling jokes about such folks is you making fun of such folks without really understanding. Perhaps I'm making a gross generalization here, and the "you" above is a general you, not you personally, Fryed.

It is one thing to laugh at yourself...but another thing entirely to have people pointing and laughing at you.

The gay jokes I've heard tend to focus on stereotypes, and, to be honest, when folks focus on stereotypes, they don't look past that to see the person.

How many times have Mand and I gotten looks because of our short hair and lack of flowery dresses? How many times do people make assumptions based solely on our looks?

I'd rather not promote stereotypes and encourage people to look beyond those assumptions. Jokes that point to those very stereotypes prevent that....and again, have folks who aren't disabled/gay/minority laugh at those who are.

Does anyone really like to be laughed at and be the brunt of other people's jokes?

OK I've rambled enough....but that's my two cents worth. Oh...and I didn't read the thread, and I think I'm glad I didn't.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:ok Firstly I'm a she not a he. Easy mistake to make online.

Secondly, maybe I didn't say it too well but I do think its wrong to post "jokes" like that on an open forum. I put "jokes" in speach marks because I didn't and don't think its a joke to offend other people.

Thirdly, Fried Fish has sent me an apology stating he never meant to offend me or anyone else and I on my part accepted that apology.

I think most of us are guilty at one time in our lives of saying something that we regret later on. That old, putting your foot in your mouth feeling is something I've had before. When I've done it though I try very hard not to repeat the same mistake again. Fryed Fish you are persisting on saying these were "jokes" even though now you know they were found truely offensive by members of this community. A Joke is only a joke as long as the people you are relaying it to find it funny and not offensive.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Ok im not useing the "j" word in regards to this anymore sorry again

p.s. i like my foot with salt and katchup please


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:ya know, we have a smiley for a situation such as this:

footinmouth

biggrin


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:i did not know that........

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to respond here since our last interaction seemed to get heated (plus I'm having a cranky enough day at work) and those above me seem to have explained it well.

I did want to sincerely thank you Fryed Fish for taking this topic seriously and maturely.

Biting my tounge on this one and looking forward to chatting poi in the future.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:ok so i think this has gone well, and now i FULLY understand......

SO ill put this here........to any one that i may have offended, i do SENSERLY appologize, on all levals, and promise to think a little harder next time before i put my foot inmy mouth again......


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Total posts: 425
Posted:im sorry to anyone that i may have offended also.

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Delete

The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:HOLLY CRAP ARE YOU FEELING OK HOPPAH!!!! never thought i'd hear thoose words comeing out of your mouth??!? ust kiddin'.........

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

Mand
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada

Total posts: 2317
Posted:Well you asked people to read and respond, so I will.



I've been the subject, both intentionally and by accident, of people's taunts and jokes. Firstly for being gay, and also because I'm epileptic.

Unlike Skullduggery I don't think of myself as being disabled. I'm just like everyone else, only the electrical activity in my brain sometimes does funny things... and I like women. smile



A lot of the time I just forget about my epilepsy, but jokes such as 'what lies still after thrashing around at the bottom of a swimming pool? - a dead epileptic' really don't do much good in taking my mind of my condition!



When you make jokes and comments like this you may just be having fun, and not think that you're hurting anyone. But you don't know anything about the people that may overhear your conversation. It's easy to deeply offend people with jokes like that, and you may be none the wiser to it. That's even more so on a public forum such as this.



Just be careful about what you post, and think about how it might be perceived by people.

I didn't read you're original thread about this, and I think I'm glad I didn't.

But, well done for coming forward and appologising for it. hug

EDITED_BY: Mand (1097281648)


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:You may be able to joke about it because you were brought up without haveing too many problems in your life and not having to face some of the prejudice that others face in their day to day living (to the extreme that the type of people that you insulted do).

Homosexual people have to face critisms and homophobic behviour everyday of their lives why should they have to put up with it here?

And though you may not see it as such it does come across that way to other people.

Just keep in mind that the people here are not your "normal" group of friends and that EVERYONE in this whole wide world takes things in different context.

Speaking for myself I knew that you people were joking on that board but it still offended me and I can see how others would get offended as well especially people from the groups that were mentioned on that board.

I grew up being harrassed and given hell everyday of my life because I was different the kind of behaviour that I put up with I would expect from children but most of us in here are older and wiser so maybe try using the old grey matter a bit more before posting something that is obviously going to be taken out of the context you mean it in by someone.


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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4437
Posted:speaking from a totally objective (i think thats the right terminology) point of view i would like to say that it pains me to see my fellow HOP members even slightly at unease with each other (apologies as i am writing this slightly under the influence of alcohol and would appreciate if someone could PM that i wrote this and where so in the morning i can check it out),
i understand that there has been a lot of confusion over the statements that have been said and many have found them offensive, i personally havent read the statements and i dont intend to but what i will say is that all of us are friends ok, admitedly fried fish made a mistake in the statement he made and rightfully apologised, and naturally that apology has been accepted, so all should just vow to think more carefully about what is said in future, im sure all this has been said in this thread but like i said im not totally with it but hey i have noticed my typing has totally improved while im drunk which is really weird. so anyway
back to subject of thread.... (sorry abt repetition etc) all are sorry and please lets get along (which we were anyway but ya know what i mean) wow excessive use of brakets (yeh i know) wow now im talking to myself using brackets (no your not) yes i am!!! (shut up and get your ass to bed) dont you talk to me like that!....smack!.....


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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wouac
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

wouac

Poi-tato
Location: Iceberg 319, Canada

Total posts: 183
Posted:just a few words I once heard a quote that youre not funny if you have to swear, I think this also applies to poking fun at what could be called "disabilities" or whatever else the subject may be, to the poster as most have said the thing could be out right hilarious and have you writhing on the ground clutching you tummy to quell the pain of laughing... but you must put yourself in anothers shoes and think of what you say before it's said, first off im sure some people like me have certain friends that take to certain jokes one group likes rascist comments while at the same time another hates them so i being of the latter of the two, eventually one should learn that words are merrily words and although they can hurt or even kill they are still just words and should not be taken to heavily.

Now as a general rule of thumb I would say if you wish to post a subject but believe that its contents could be viewed as hatefull or hurtfull by another person simply don't post it, I'm sure that somewhere it will be found that there is just as many non offensive jokes as there are offensive so why not try and bring the latter of the two, to surface and let the other slowly seep back into its lowly non existence, everyone would be happy and the world would get along better.

by no means should you fried fish take this as an attack at you or youre humor its just my ramblings of what I believe should be and I'm sure some could even find it a joke all I'm trying to say is bring in the good times and through out the bad.

but enough said not enough done lets have a beer and call this all off and just say wrong place wrong time [censored] happens theres always room for improvement and a next time will always be around to right passed wrongs beerchug...hmm i think its about time I had another beer actually


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potato's.

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