Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Ado-p's Learning new moves thread...

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:*edit*

so i reckon this thread will hold a record of the new things and stuff im learning along the way, all input of any kind is welcome...

*edit*



*where was I? oh yeah here, The elbow, arm, arm elbow roll*



Its simple really, I cant do it.



I've seen some real nice clips of this move (Thankyou MCP/Glass) but I still seem to be missing somthing fundamental.



So I take the staff in my right hand, bring it accross my body under my extended left elbow and roll. extend left arm and let staff roll onto right arm. Bring staff back towards body on right arm



Now here is the problem, it just stops working there, I think i might be missing an extra beat/spin or something. Or it it could be the position of my wrist. Dont ask me what my wrist is doin, it goes all wonky in a natural reaction to the feeling of the staff falling off when i start bending my right arm on the way back in,



Any ideas?



If I can get this I'll move onto to trying to combine it with a shoulder rool and a turn to get it across my back and other shoulder.



I'm hoping to put up a clip soon, not of what i cant do but of what I can, after six months it's be cool to get some HOP feedback.


Love is the law.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:I was thinking about horizontal fishtails.

Right in a reverse fishtail, the staff end describes a circle on either side of your hand, the ends never swapping sides. Your hand is always under the center point.

So if we rotate this image to horizontal, the staff is doing circles above and below your hand. Your hand is now to the side of the staff and there's nothing underneath it. So we have to move our hand to be under the staff. Also the circles the staff describes have to be small to fit the length of your arm away from your body.

But here's the pinch: The hand is under the staff now, but the path of the bottom end of the stick passes through the hand. So to do a horizontal fishtail, you would have to change the hand position to the other side of the staff on the back of your hand from one side to the other. So that your hand would keep out of the way of the fishtail. Otherwise you would have to rotate around the the staff.

So whatever this baton twirler was doing, she would have an extra impediment on the top side of the fishtail: Her head.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:I can make a crap vid of the starting point, motion but I will have to hold onto the staff to show you cause I cant do but physically it is possible I know that 100%

Grow old but never grow up

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:video me up smile

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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minimaniac


minimaniac

The Ladiees Man
Location: near swindon/ oxford

Total posts: 360
Posted:how? ive only just managed normal fishtails!

I'm going to leave the army and run away to the circus

if not i will just become a MI5 agent !!!

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:I learnt normal fishtails a few weeks ago and i aint going near those things for quiet a while.

still have to get reverse fishtails!!


Grow old but never grow up

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:bounce bounce bounce

Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:I'll bounce you! biggrin

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:I'm making a staff video tonight

Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:Sweet. is it just for yourself to see what you can do?

Grow old but never grow up

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:im going to make a full set of tutorials

basic spinning stuff

fig8's

double spins

turns

ballet

etc


Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:You rock man. Basic spinning stuff is just what im looking for right now. need to work on flow.

Grow old but never grow up

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Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:you want me to post you some pointe shoes Mr P?

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:yes please.

any any spare spandex you might have lying around. biggrin

not sure how to teach flow in a clip dec. you flow fine though so worry not. flow has alot to do with your muscles changing too. I'd say practise more but then you'll only end up like me.

One handed....


Love is the law.

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:and a pink leotard, like the ones at aerobic classes with the bit that wedges up your bum ubbrollsmile

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:mmmm

anal floss


Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:On advice from Faberge I have added in the - so the scots might be able to understand. biggrin

Grow old but never grow up

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:What was this thread about?

adobe your supposed to be learning new moves!

I figured out that double staff one hand cross thing I was working on. But now I have to learn some cool variations. Otherwise it's just another hopelessly technical pointless move.

Nice one: Contact weave, but palms facing each other, doing a fishtail. (I think I was) not a full figure of eight. So it's like a prayer contact weave. I think it's nice.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:prayer contact weave or prayer fishtail? make ur mind up woman!!! a contact weave requires 2 beats on each side?

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Written by: ado-p


offtopic



your all fired



tongue



more staffage please





you tell em mcp



im really not getting your contact weave/prayer fishtail. Is it a multi beat fistail then or is the stick turning over?


Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:Think im starting to understand the second part of the matrix a bit more and still working on the elbow-elbow -elbow roll.its bouncing. any suggestions on that last part.

Also been trying a single elbow fishtail ie just making it come back and a lot of it is about where you start the move from.


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Well if ya wanna get complicated you could probably do all three in prayer. And when I say all three, I don't mean contact weave, contact waistwrap, and contact BTB weave. tongue (Though prayer would apply to all them too)

I mean a prayer contact weave, a prayer fishtail, with one hand over the staff, and a prayer fishtail with both hands under the staff. (Though I have yet to get that nice. My arms won't get close enough together.) And yes, if you put an extra beat in a prayer fishtail with the staff trapped between the hands, you can transfer to the other hand fishtail.

Fishtails are a good laugh.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:Well what do you know reverse fishtails is all about the bounce!! now if I could just keep the bounce to my arm instead of my whole body i would be thrilled bounce

Grow old but never grow up

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Dec you were right that shoulder thing. Just got a load of much tidier halo snes halo's in a row.

I still feel like i'm wandering around in a random circle of footsteps though.

Did loads of work with uber heavy stick and then tried same with light pook sticks. Funnily enough its easier (and nicer) with the lighter thiner ones smile

and a layout bounce2 seems like you have to get that elbow circling right up there. in plane so to speak.


Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:Yep the last part of the layout the staff should just roll into your hand but I havent got that just right yet

With the half elbow fishtail.this is how its done in a bit more detail than a txt.start with the staff moving clockwise in your right hand in the left side wheel plane.go into a hand elbow roll as fairleft as you can as the staff moves over your upper arm give it a gentle nudge up and sweep your arm across in a the horz plane so that its know on you right 90degrees to your body. Can only get 1 in 10 but its a start. I know how to do it.

Finally a little tip for the halo snes halo, I know you said planting your feet gives you balance but try turning on your toes. it feels a lot smoother. If it doesnt work then im wrong. Besides your a balerina your can pull that off.


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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:*gently pirrouettes onto fear-tine's sternum*

no idea what your talking about with that elbow fishtail. can you make a clip?

witht the halo thing, i find im turning around 150 degrees than then turn around the same again.
but im not turning on the spot so im traveling alot. not as much anymore mind. also i feel like im ducking the stick with my head in a decidedly ungracefull manner. seems to be the only way i can get it to work for now though


Love is the law.

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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:This has been the best week ever for practise. For some reason im just getting stuff.

Tried that long arm stall we were talking bout last night and i think I have it. The centre of the staff is no where near your hand.


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Fear-Tine
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

enthusiast
Location: dublin Ireland

Total posts: 227
Posted:by the way im a long way from a clip but I can show at some stage

Grow old but never grow up

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:managed to get a steve from left to right tonight, its funny that i only got it in the opposite direction after i finally found a way of doing from right to left that i found comfortable.



i read a good essay last night on juggling.org (i think,it was 4am) about how your brain learns on both sides even though you may be learning the actual technical trick on one side only. this is the best excuse i've had in ages to learn everything on my right side first. in saying that, since i picked up doubles im very concious of learning things in both directions.



was playing halo snes halo last night and it got a bit easier after i tried what fear-tine suggested, which was pushing out my shoulder blades and dipping the shoulder that the staff is travelling towards. was still traveling in silly directions with my feet though.



today i tried it using a halo from the armpit instead of placing it between my shoulder blades. it seems to work a whole lot better as more of the staff is in contact with my body and so it travels more towards the side i need it to be in order to get my neck under it. my feet are landing a bit closer to where they should be with this. now all i need are planes.



got a half decent halo from an elbow trap tonight as well. was watching these in fluffy napalms vid and liking them alot. elbow traps are great because you can trap behind (on top of your arm) and in front (under your arm) and then carry it to the opposite side and release it or now, as i've just learned, you can halo with it nice and smoothly. its nice done continousley using turns and carries.



forward and reverse fishtails seem easier with my arm higher and straighter.



tried this too



elbow roll- wrist roll - half reverse fishtail - turn 180 - transfer to opposite hand - half forward fishtail - turn 180 - wrist roll - elbow roll



and it worked



smile


Love is the law.

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
Posted:hey ado,

that move you justed described in the end.. does that physically work? well, apparently if you pulled it off:), but it seems to me that you have to turn another 180 degrees after the half forward fishtail. otherwise the staff is going anti clockwise when it comes onto your second elbow.confused

oh, btw, i got the forward fishtail down with both hands bounce bounce YAY!


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Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:it works in my head
and in waving my arms about with no sticks in the vicinity

good work doopydo
I shall post you a lolly

Mr a. P,
Cork,
Ireland

yes?

hug


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